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Old 02-04-2013, 22:50   #26
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Looking forward to it. Well still be carrying what is titled the LETK2G now (becoming just the Law Enforcement Trauma Kit) as well as what's going to be called the Deployment Kit, its just this lower cost one that's going away.

//Jake


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Old 02-05-2013, 01:20   #27
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Thanks everybody for 1) Talking about trauma kits and 2) all the kind words and referrals for us! A couple quick notes-

North American Rescue- We love NAR and we carry a lot of their products, so if you're looking for a CAT or one of their other items, we match their advertised pricing and love to sell their kit. Since we carry other brands as well, we're a good mix & match spot (IMHO, of course).

Phokus Kits: These things are the heat and are flying off the shelves. Morris and I were talking the other day about how this is one of those "Why didn't I think of that" items that seems to smack you in the face. Unfortunately, I just got word from the manufacturer that the cheaper model (the LETK3G) has been D/C'ed so once the ones on our shelves are gone, that's it. I'd like to see these goes to LEO's so if you're on the fence, I would pick one up soon. Shoot me an email at jake@officersurvival.org with your GT screen name and your agency and I'll give you the agency price too. Or you can PM me here. Or call.

BC- Thanks for the referral! We love BC, it's like Washington only more mellow. At least once you get out of Vancouver. Let me know if you guys have any questions or specific needs.

Finally, a question for everyone. Would you be willing to carry less trauma gear if it fit in your soft armor's plate pocket? We're trying to find the happy medium on a new line that finds the balance between price, amount of gear, and size. I'd really appreciate your feedback.

Thanks!

//Jake
I can't tell from the pictures, but does the Phokus kit fit in a soft-armor carrier in addition to a plate carrier? I'm thinking about one to throw in my concealable vest.
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:32   #28
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Finally, a question for everyone. Would you be willing to carry less trauma gear if it fit in your soft armor's plate pocket?
The only issue I can see here is compromising the vest warranty. Our particular vest company will void the warranty if the vest or carrier is altered in any way, including putting extra stuff in the pockets.

I don't honestly believe that a trauma kit would impact the performance of the panels... but I could see my department NOT allowing us to carry a kit in our vests like that.

I (or other officers) may choose to do it on our own anyway, but it's a gamble of losing admin or vest manufacturer support if there was an incident.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:00   #29
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Speaking for myself. Our vests have the insert for the trauma plate inside the carrier rather than on the front. If possible I'd like to see a small trauma kit that could fit in a shirt pocket perhaps? If the size of the kit needs to be reduced I could do without the shears and glow stick.

Now that you guys have legalized marijuana I'm sure Washington will be even more laid back than BC in no time!
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:41   #30
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:27   #31
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I can't tell from the pictures, but does the Phokus kit fit in a soft-armor carrier in addition to a plate carrier? I'm thinking about one to throw in my concealable vest.
It will fit inside your soft armor carrier. The only question that we haven't answered yet (since it's a typical winter in Seattle) is how clammy it will get right next to your body on a hot day.

Regarding the new kit idea, it sounds like a shirt pocket size is the way to go rather than the plate pocket. We'll have to slim the kit down a lot to do that, so what would your priorities be? My first blush is QuikClot gauze, gloves, and a tourniquet. Bag can double as a chest seal. Would you want to see variations or just one? Thanks again for the feedback.

//Jake
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:08   #32
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Originally Posted by OfficerSurvival View Post
Thanks everybody for 1) Talking about trauma kits and 2) all the kind words and referrals for us! A couple quick notes-

North American Rescue- We love NAR and we carry a lot of their products, so if you're looking for a CAT or one of their other items, we match their advertised pricing and love to sell their kit. Since we carry other brands as well, we're a good mix & match spot (IMHO, of course).

Phokus Kits: These things are the heat and are flying off the shelves. Morris and I were talking the other day about how this is one of those "Why didn't I think of that" items that seems to smack you in the face. Unfortunately, I just got word from the manufacturer that the cheaper model (the LETK3G) has been D/C'ed so once the ones on our shelves are gone, that's it. I'd like to see these goes to LEO's so if you're on the fence, I would pick one up soon. Shoot me an email at jake@officersurvival.org with your GT screen name and your agency and I'll give you the agency price too. Or you can PM me here. Or call.

BC- Thanks for the referral! We love BC, it's like Washington only more mellow. At least once you get out of Vancouver. Let me know if you guys have any questions or specific needs.

Finally, a question for everyone. Would you be willing to carry less trauma gear if it fit in your soft armor's plate pocket? We're trying to find the happy medium on a new line that finds the balance between price, amount of gear, and size. I'd really appreciate your feedback.

Thanks!

//Jake
Nice. I will definitely check you guys out for these type products. Glad to have you around here to help provide info.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:12   #33
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Even without using the vest plate pocket, that doesn't mean I couldn't still slide the kit inside of my shirt. We have "hidden zipper" uniform shirts (the buttons are sewn on the outside shirt flap just for looks), and I routinely unzip and store folded paperwork inside my shirt and outside of my vest.

Maybe something with a couple strips of velcro would be useful. The kit could "stick" to the extra velcro on the outside of my vest carrier (my straps don't reach all the way around), underneath my shirt, and shouldn't really be considered intrusive to the vest carrier or plates.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:18   #34
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Maybe something with a couple strips of velcro would be useful. The kit could "stick" to the extra velcro on the outside of my vest carrier (my straps don't reach all the way around), underneath my shirt, and shouldn't really be considered intrusive to the vest carrier or plates.
This is something else we've looked at and I'm working to source. We don't have manufacturing in house, so it's a matter of finding the right pricing. I'll keep you posted on what we discover.

//Jake
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:58   #35
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Any thought to a kit that will fit semi-flat in a leg pocket of a pair of cargo/BDU style pant? We wear the 5.11 BDU's here w/ the soft side velcro on the inside of the pocket...
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Old 02-05-2013, 13:49   #36
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Any thought to a kit that will fit semi-flat in a leg pocket of a pair of cargo/BDU style pant? We wear the 5.11 BDU's here w/ the soft side velcro on the inside of the pocket...
Our Patrol Aid Kit line will fit in those pockets, but they come poly-packed rather than hook and loop fastened. The BPAK is going to be the slimmest of the four. We could also do a custom quote and build for an agency that we could slim down a bit if you'd prefer something a little less noticeable.

I've got some feelers out there to our friends in the industry who do sewing work to see if we can have a custom pouch built that would fit this need of securing within a pocket as well.

//Jake
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Old 02-05-2013, 14:03   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficerSurvival View Post
It will fit inside your soft armor carrier. The only question that we haven't answered yet (since it's a typical winter in Seattle) is how clammy it will get right next to your body on a hot day.

Regarding the new kit idea, it sounds like a shirt pocket size is the way to go rather than the plate pocket. We'll have to slim the kit down a lot to do that, so what would your priorities be? My first blush is QuikClot gauze, gloves, and a tourniquet. Bag can double as a chest seal. Would you want to see variations or just one? Thanks again for the feedback.

//Jake
Maybe throw a triangular bandage or two in there? There's a million things you can do with them, and they take up almost no room to speak of. It would help in holding the quikclot gauze in, hold a chest seal on, rig a sling, makeshift 2nd tourniquet if needed, etc.
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
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Old 02-05-2013, 14:26   #38
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Even without using the vest plate pocket, that doesn't mean I couldn't still slide the kit inside of my shirt. We have "hidden zipper" uniform shirts (the buttons are sewn on the outside shirt flap just for looks), and I routinely unzip and store folded paperwork inside my shirt and outside of my vest.

Maybe something with a couple strips of velcro would be useful. The kit could "stick" to the extra velcro on the outside of my vest carrier (my straps don't reach all the way around), underneath my shirt, and shouldn't really be considered intrusive to the vest carrier or plates.
I think the obvious concern there is the integrity of the kit if it were struck with a bullet or knife.
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Old 02-05-2013, 15:30   #39
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I think the obvious concern there is the integrity of the kit if it were struck with a bullet or knife.
I'd be less concerned about the integrity of the kit and more about the knife stuck in my chest.
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Old 02-05-2013, 15:45   #40
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I'd be less concerned about the integrity of the kit and more about the knife stuck in my chest.
I think you miss the point a bit. What happens when you have the kit between your vest and the threat, the threat hits and penetrates the kit, damaging the contents, but the vest stops that round. Somehow in there there's also a hit to the area your vest doesn't cover, and now you have a kit that's in pieces that probably isn't going to work well to fix you up.
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
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Old 02-05-2013, 16:05   #41
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No, I saw your point. I just added a flavor of humor.

That being said, the Phokus may not be suitable for SBA where deformation is a possibility. However, I recognize that this type of kit may help those who have limited kit space on their belt or don't have the pockets available for some gloves, combat gauze and a CAT or SWAT-T yes still want something reasonably handy. Ideally, it may be best under plates where the issue of deformation is reasonably moot.

Which reminds me, I need to call Jake and order the small kit for T&E with my SBA. I can certainly post my thoughts.
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Old 02-05-2013, 16:10   #42
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No, I saw your point. I just added a flavor of humor.

That being said, the Phokus may not be suitable for SBA where deformation is a possibility. However, I recognize that this type of kit may help those who have limited kit space on their belt or don't have the pockets available for some gloves, combat gauze and a CAT or SWAT-T yes still want something reasonably handy. Ideally, it may be best under plates where the issue of deformation is reasonably moot.

Which reminds me, I need to call Jake and order the small kit for T&E with my SBA. I can certainly post my thoughts.
Sorry; my mind wasn't in "humor" mode on that one, lol. I'm actually now leaning more towards a small kit I can put on my gun belt, as long as it's not too bulky. I don't carry a lot on that belt (weapon, mags, cuffs, radio, and about to put a Surefire G2 on it), and the times I can really see myself needing that would arise from an armed escort off the institution.
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
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Old 02-05-2013, 16:16   #43
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There are some nice kits out there. NAR created some compact and flat kits that are nice. The luxury of having tactical pajamas is pocket sand the ability to carry kit items in them (of course, the flip side is filling them too much to the point you look like a bumpy mess).
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Old 02-05-2013, 16:37   #44
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There are some nice kits out there. NAR created some compact and flat kits that are nice. The luxury of having tactical pajamas is pocket sand the ability to carry kit items in them (of course, the flip side is filling them too much to the point you look like a bumpy mess).
Yeah; I wear 5.11 Taclites most of the time. They have cargo pockets, but they're not all that large. Plus, I'd rather have it on my belt, where I always have it when I have a weapon at work, rather than something I can forget to throw in my pocket. Plus, my cargo pockets are already fairly full with my day to day stuff (planner (has our offense codes in it), notebook, gloves, trash bags for shaking down, etc).
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.

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Old 02-05-2013, 17:08   #45
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What happens when you have the kit between your vest and the threat, the threat hits and penetrates the kit, damaging the contents, but the vest stops that round. Somehow in there there's also a hit to the area your vest doesn't cover, and now you have a kit that's in pieces that probably isn't going to work well to fix you up.
I honestly never thought of the kit being used on ME, but rather having it to use on someone else who was wounded. Unless we (fellow officers) all have one and carry it in the same exact place, how would my coworkers know where to look for it? Or even know that I have one?

Interested in how you guys do it that already have these.
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Old 02-05-2013, 17:29   #46
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I honestly never thought of the kit being used on ME, but rather having it to use on someone else who was wounded. Unless we (fellow officers) all have one and carry it in the same exact place, how would my coworkers know where to look for it? Or even know that I have one?

Interested in how you guys do it that already have these.
I guess I kinda default back to how the military does it, as that's where most of my medical training has come from: Your IFAK is for YOU; you treat casualties with THEIR IFAK and an aid bag. That's what I think of with this: if I'm hurt, this is something I can use to do self-aid and get back in the fight, or at least keep myself from bleeding out until I can get help. With my position, I can't see us being sent to assist on a mass shooting or something. For a mass-casualty scenario inside the fence, we have dedicated mass-casualty aid kits staged at various places around the joint.
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
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Old 02-05-2013, 17:32   #47
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No, I saw your point. I just added a flavor of humor.

That being said, the Phokus may not be suitable for SBA where deformation is a possibility. However, I recognize that this type of kit may help those who have limited kit space on their belt or don't have the pockets available for some gloves, combat gauze and a CAT or SWAT-T yes still want something reasonably handy. Ideally, it may be best under plates where the issue of deformation is reasonably moot.

Which reminds me, I need to call Jake and order the small kit for T&E with my SBA. I can certainly post my thoughts.
This is one of the downsides of the manufacturer eliminating the less expensive kit in that it had no items that would likely be affected by deformation. I don't think I would personally be too excited about the idea of a pair of trauma shears stacked between me and the stopped round.

//Jake
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Old 02-05-2013, 17:35   #48
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I have two dedicated pockets on the jumpsuit. The guys on my squad know which pockets.

I actually had my department replace some combat gauze I whipped out and used on a GSW victim. Had to use it as the .223 rounds did a number on his leg and the scene was still fluid and aid was staging for the all clear. That was when I found religion about kits and always keeping stuff on me.
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Old 02-05-2013, 17:37   #49
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Yeah; I wear 5.11 Taclites most of the time. They have cargo pockets, but they're not all that large. Plus, I'd rather have it on my belt, where I always have it when I have a weapon at work, rather than something I can forget to throw in my pocket. Plus, my cargo pockets are already fairly full with my day to day stuff (planner (has our offense codes in it), notebook, gloves, trash bags for shaking down, etc).
The great challenge in the gun belt carried kit is real estate. We've found it's really tough to put enough stuff in it to be effective (i.e. not wasting your money), but keeping it small enough that it doesn't eat what little space most guys have on their belts. This is one of the reasons I'm heartened to see more and more external carriers become the norm. Most of our trauma gear is flat-packed. Great for a vest mounted IFAK or cargo pocket. Lame for belt mount.

Unfortunately, a lot of our less scrupulous competition doesn't really care if it works or not, living by the principle of "I don't care what you buy, as long as you buy it from me". We've built our business instead on the concept of "If we wouldn't carry it, we won't sell it". I'm not saying we're the only makers/dealers of decent gear, just be careful who you shop from.

Finally, I'd be happy to try to put something together for any of you guys that meets your needs. Just PM me or email me at jake@officersurvival.org.

//Jake
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Old 02-05-2013, 17:46   #50
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The great challenge in the gun belt carried kit is real estate. We've found it's really tough to put enough stuff in it to be effective (i.e. not wasting your money), but keeping it small enough that it doesn't eat what little space most guys have on their belts. This is one of the reasons I'm heartened to see more and more external carriers become the norm. Most of our trauma gear is flat-packed. Great for a vest mounted IFAK or cargo pocket. Lame for belt mount.

Unfortunately, a lot of our less scrupulous competition doesn't really care if it works or not, living by the principle of "I don't care what you buy, as long as you buy it from me". We've built our business instead on the concept of "If we wouldn't carry it, we won't sell it". I'm not saying we're the only makers/dealers of decent gear, just be careful who you shop from.

Finally, I'd be happy to try to put something together for any of you guys that meets your needs. Just PM me or email me at jake@officersurvival.org.

//Jake
As to that last line, do I understand you correctly that you would be willing to do one-of custom kits for individuals?

FYI, I just wanted to throw out there that I GREATLY appreciate the time and individual responses you're throwing out there. That's awesome customer service right there.
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.

Last edited by CJStudent; 02-05-2013 at 17:47..
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