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Old 01-30-2013, 12:28   #141
SFla27
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Originally Posted by fireforged View Post
..i can train myself to quickly put on a seatbelt at the earliest sign of a traffic accident, but that plan doesnt seem prudent.
^^+1^^
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:32   #142
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Always +1. A gun that needs to be racked is only good for the movies. IV carried my glock many times and its never just gone off. Only time I didn't carry with one in the chamber was when I had a belt clip on it to use as a latenight take the dog out gun.

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Old 01-30-2013, 13:15   #143
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Always +1. A gun that needs to be racked is only good for the movies. IV carried my glock many times and its never just gone off. Only time I didn't carry with one in the chamber was when I had a belt clip on it to use as a latenight take the dog out gun.

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I love the video on youtube where the guy racks the slide on his glock(unloaded of course), ties it to a rope and drags it behind his truck down a desert road for several miles.. all the while the glock is turning flips, bouncing, banging off of rocks and in the end, he picked it up and pulled the trigger... click! The striker was still in the correct position even after all that abuse.
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Old 01-30-2013, 14:08   #144
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Violence can happen quickly, without warning and in ways most cant even imagine.. I will not handicap myself by having to chamber a round.
You must live or work in an area where criminal attacks are a frequent occurrence. If attacks aren't frequent, they must happen often enough that you feel your safety is in jeopardy.

I highlight your comments because many, many bad things can happen any time, quickly and without warning, that we don't take special measures to avoid. Yet, many of us go to great lengths to carry a weapon every day for protection against attack that, in most places, is unlikely to happen.

I'm not being critical, because I admire disciplined individuals. I applaud folks who take up martial arts or fitness training, become a pilot or build beautiful wood furniture. I'm just trying to understand why people here devote themselves to self defense using a firearm; what's the real motivation?

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 01-30-2013 at 14:25..
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:13   #145
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Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
Violence can happen quickly, without warning and in ways most cant even imagine.. I will not handicap myself by having to chamber a round.
Nowhere is this more evident than in Israel, where every soldier is required to carry C3. The chance that any single Israeli soldier will encounter a terrorists is small, and since the adoption of their carry method the incidents of ND/AD have been greatly reduced.

As I've posted so many times previously, I have assessed my personal circumstances, evaluated the many Glock Talk members' admissions to ND/AD incidents, and decided that since my chance of having a ND/AD is greater than facing a potential life-or-death situation (in which I will have no time to chamber a round) I've decided C3 is the better route for me.

And I might add, there's a whole lot more to preparedness than having a chambered round, as I'm sure all readers are aware.
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Old 01-30-2013, 16:44   #146
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Most people who first start carrying experience Cognitive Dissonance in regards to carrying one in the chamber; that is, you are performing an action that goes against your cultural conditioning. Mainstream western culture is to be overtly cautious around firearms, if not all out afraid. This is the conditioning you grew up in for 18+ years. The action of carrying a loaded firearm so close to your body completley goes against the cultural conditioning. It is a normal question when people first starting carrying, hence why it has been asked for years and years and years on this forum and every other one. The feeling is also normal.

In summation: you are feeling cognitive dissonance, it's normal, carry one in the chamber when you're ready, follow the four rules of gun safety.
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Old 01-30-2013, 17:06   #147
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Several points I'd like to make in response to your very tactful (or was it sarcastic?) queery:

1. Given my age and lifestyle, the probability of being attacked is nearly 0.
2. Given my skill level, lack of recent training and infrequency of practice, I feel C3 with a Glock is safest for the people around me and for myself.
3. My CC techniques are less important than safety considerations.
4. My affinity for firearms makes CC a practice that is enjoyable in addition to providing a sense of security in some situations.

I hope this helps you understand why some of us carry C3 based upon our particular circumstances.

No sir, no sarcasm intended, Iím just baffled by your risk management strategy. But if it works for you Iíll let this dead horse RIP.
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Old 01-30-2013, 18:44   #148
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No sir, no sarcasm intended, Iím just baffled by your risk management strategy. But if it works for you Iíll let this dead horse RIP.
While I responded to your question, you have chosen not to answer mine about motivation for adopting concealed carry in C1 as a part of everyday life.

You mention being "baffled" by my "risk management" decisions even though I made it clear that my risk of attack is near 0. With such a low probability of attack, I have no motivation to devote more time, energy, training costs and range fees to become better prepared.

Since you opened the door by posing the question I responded to, please do me the courtesy of describing your motivation.

Thanks.

P.S. I strongly endorse professional training, firearm familiarization, gun handling and shooting practice, visualization of attack scenarios, continuous practice of situational awareness and development of other SD skills for anyone who has a real need to carry a firearm. I have engaged in all of these activities in years past, primarily because of my life-long fascination with guns. After 70+ years, I have never been attacked or even felt like I was in a truly dangerous situation.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 01-30-2013 at 19:55..
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Old 01-30-2013, 20:07   #149
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While I responded to your question, you have chosen not to answer mine about motivation for adopting concealed carry in C1 as a part of everyday life.

You mention being "baffled" by my "risk management" decisions even though I made it clear that my risk of attack is near 0. With such a low probability of attack, I have no motivation to devote more time, energy, training costs and range fees to become better prepared.

Since you opened the door by posing the question I responded to, please do me the courtesy of describing your motivation.

Thanks.

P.S. I strongly endorse professional training, firearm familiarization, gun handling and shooting practice, visualization of attack scenarios, continuous practice of situational awareness and development of other SD skills for anyone who has a real need to carry a firearm. I have engaged in all of these activities in years past, primarily because of my life-long fascination with guns. After 70+ years, I have never been attacked or even felt like I was in a truly dangerous situation.

The motivations for carrying in C1 have already been discussed in depth in previous posts, but since you insist I’ll give you my response.

My motivation is based on my past safety training and experience. I take precautions to manage risk based not on my estimation of the likelihood of a bad event occurring but on the seriousness of the consequences. Therefore I employ all of my PPE all of the time in a complete state of readiness even though the likelihood of it being necessary seems low. The consequences are just too serious to do otherwise.


On the other hand the C3 mindset seems to depend on the ability to accurately predict the unpredictable. You estimate the likely hood of being attacked as being near zero and the likely hood of an ND as being greater than near zero so you mitigate the risk of an ND by carrying a weapon that is for all practical purposes unloaded. Why burden yourself with a weapon at all?


In addition, while you can adopt certain strategies to reduce the risk of a criminal attack, when a criminal does select you as a victim, he has the initiative and you really have no control of the situation at that point. All of you options then become purely reactive until you can regain the initiative.


On the other hand preventing an ND is totally within you control and the risk is easily mitigated by developing a few simple safety habits.

So, I don’t understand the mindset of empty chamber carry. You manage the risk of an ND by keeping you weapon in a state of unreadiness that very likely makes it useless to prevent the very event you carry it for.


Again, I mean no disrespect, I just don’t get it. But that’s OK because really it’s none of my business.
Carry on and have a good day.

Last edited by NMOFT; 01-30-2013 at 20:10..
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Old 01-30-2013, 21:37   #150
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One in the chamber because you never know what kind of situation you may run into, whatever you choose you must practice, practice, practice. I have seen a product called the siderlock trigger it's a trigger safety for a glock that you may want to check into.

[url]http://www.siderlock.com/[/url]
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Old 01-30-2013, 21:42   #151
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Originally Posted by NMOFT View Post
The motivations for carrying in C1 have already been discussed in depth in previous posts, but since you insist Iíll give you my response.

My motivation is based on my past safety training and experience. I take precautions to manage risk based not on my estimation of the likelihood of a bad event occurring but on the seriousness of the consequences. Therefore I employ all of my PPE all of the time in a complete state of readiness even though the likelihood of it being necessary seems low. The consequences are just too serious to do otherwise.


On the other hand the C3 mindset seems to depend on the ability to accurately predict the unpredictable. You estimate the likely hood of being attacked as being near zero and the likely hood of an ND as being greater than near zero so you mitigate the risk of an ND by carrying a weapon that is for all practical purposes unloaded. Why burden yourself with a weapon at all?


In addition, while you can adopt certain strategies to reduce the risk of a criminal attack, when a criminal does select you as a victim, he has the initiative and you really have no control of the situation at that point. All of you options then become purely reactive until you can regain the initiative.


On the other hand preventing an ND is totally within you control and the risk is easily mitigated by developing a few simple safety habits.

So, I donít understand the mindset of empty chamber carry. You manage the risk of an ND by keeping you weapon in a state of unreadiness that very likely makes it useless to prevent the very event you carry it for.


Again, I mean no disrespect, I just donít get it. But thatís OK because really itís none of my business.
Carry on and have a good day.
Thanks.
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Old 01-30-2013, 21:52   #152
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Originally Posted by SilenceDoGood View Post
Most people who first start carrying experience Cognitive Dissonance in regards to carrying one in the chamber; that is, you are performing an action that goes against your cultural conditioning. Mainstream western culture is to be overtly cautious around firearms, if not all out afraid. This is the conditioning you grew up in for 18+ years. The action of carrying a loaded firearm so close to your body completley goes against the cultural conditioning. It is a normal question when people first starting carrying, hence why it has been asked for years and years and years on this forum and every other one. The feeling is also normal.

In summation: you are feeling cognitive dissonance, it's normal, carry one in the chamber when you're ready, follow the four rules of gun safety.

I had to laugh at your post and for me your statements are preposterous and a bunch of crap.

Perhaps, I did not grow up in the ďMain stream (of) western cultureĒ as I am not ďovertly cautious around firearmsĒ and definitely ďnot all out afraidĒ of them. I am safe, experienced and proficient with firearms and I feel comfortable and secure with firearms on and around me. I feel more comfortable, safe and secure with a loaded firearm on and/or around me, than not having a loaded firearm nearby.

I had to snicker when I read the part about; ďThe action of carrying a loaded firearm so close to your body (completely) goes against the cultural conditioning.Ē In the culture that I was raised, carrying a loaded firearm was a regular occurrence from a very early age. Being ready and able to shoot a firearm, to protect the livestock and other property, was a requirement and a duty.

RJ
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Old 01-30-2013, 23:15   #153
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Originally Posted by RJ's Guns;19931762
[FONT=Calibri
I had to snicker when I read the part about; “The action of carrying a loaded firearm so close to your body (completely) goes against the cultural conditioning.” In the culture that I was raised, carrying a loaded firearm was a regular occurrence from a very early age. Being ready and able to shoot a firearm, to protect the livestock and other property, was a requirement and a duty. [/FONT]

RJ

In most of the Country, a firearm is a tool that is typically close at hand. Purhaps he is talking about Boston
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:47   #154
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Hey guys,
I just got my CHL in TX and am deciding how I will carry my G23. I have heard arguments for keeping one in the chamber and keeping all in the clip, and I'm still stuck on the decision. I want y'alls opinions. I feel uneasy carrying one in the chamber as the glock has no external safety, but I don't want to waste time and possibly alert an enemy racking the slide if it ever comes down to it. Help me Glock Talk.
That's a no brainer. I would never think of not having gun chambered. Imagine you get attacked your arm is broken. You can get your gun out but now what? Your dead. I have Glock and XD.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:05   #155
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I carry C1 and that's what I recommend.

There are a lot of people out there who carry C3 and they do just fine.

Try not to take these things so personal. <---This is important.

C1 carriers are not irresponsible dolts (well most of us anyway) and C3 carriers aren't a bunch of nervous Nellies.

Get a grip.

And thanks to those of you who discussed this like grownups.

Regards,
Comrade Happyguy
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:27   #156
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Originally Posted by NMOFT View Post
The motivations for carrying in C1 have already been discussed in depth in previous posts, but since you insist Iíll give you my response.

My motivation is based on my past safety training and experience. I take precautions to manage risk based not on my estimation of the likelihood of a bad event occurring but on the seriousness of the consequences. Therefore I employ all of my PPE all of the time in a complete state of readiness even though the likelihood of it being necessary seems low. The consequences are just too serious to do otherwise.


On the other hand the C3 mindset seems to depend on the ability to accurately predict the unpredictable. You estimate the likely hood of being attacked as being near zero and the likely hood of an ND as being greater than near zero so you mitigate the risk of an ND by carrying a weapon that is for all practical purposes unloaded. Why burden yourself with a weapon at all?


In addition, while you can adopt certain strategies to reduce the risk of a criminal attack, when a criminal does select you as a victim, he has the initiative and you really have no control of the situation at that point. All of you options then become purely reactive until you can regain the initiative.


On the other hand preventing an ND is totally within you control and the risk is easily mitigated by developing a few simple safety habits.

So, I donít understand the mindset of empty chamber carry. You manage the risk of an ND by keeping you weapon in a state of unreadiness that very likely makes it useless to prevent the very event you carry it for.


Again, I mean no disrespect, I just donít get it. But thatís OK because really itís none of my business.
Carry on and have a good day.

Great post brother, very well spoken.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:05   #157
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Some food for thought for those debating and thinking they have practiced enough that racking the slide only takes a half second.

This was posted by Mas Ayoob a few months ago to someone asking about carrying their gun with no round in the chamber.

Quote:
I go with the round in the chamber philosophy. The handgun is primarily a reactive weapon. NYPD SOP-9 studies indicate that it will be fired one-handed roughly half the time. The attacker may be physically on you, making it impossible to rack the slide with the other hand, and the one-handed fixes for that don't work too well in dynamic movement.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show...hlight=chamber

In addition to Mas's comment, when I looked at some of the NYPD SOP 9 studies for older shootings (the half shooting one handed was within the last year or so), they had one stat that jumped out. They had tracked fatal officer shootings over a 25 year period that ended in '79, and of those shootings, 1/3 of them the encounter occurred between 0'-3' and half occurred from 3-6'.

I didn't look far enough to see if there was more recent data on the fatal/surviving shooting distances from NYPD. However, if you combine these facts. That the most recent NYPD SOP Study shows that 1/2 of the officers had to shoot with one hand and that in a past study, 81% of the officers that died in shooting encounters did so at distances of less than 6 feet and you can see how carrying with an empty chamber can mean you have zero chance to defend yourself in a significant (if not majority) of situations where you would need to use a firearm to defend yourself or your family.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:21   #158
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Definitely

I certainly do carry my G17 with the chamber loaded. NO ADs or NDs here. I simply keep my finger off the trigger unless I am shooting it at the range. My 115gr JHP +p+ loads are ready for defense.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:31   #159
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This has been discussed to death. The best safety is between your ears. Without one in the chamber, glocks make terrible hammers. If you don't pull the trigger, it won't fire-period. A proper holster should allow you to draw and re-holster your gun without ever touching the trigger. Look into a holster with a combat cut
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:22   #160
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This has been discussed to death. The best safety is between your ears. Without one in the chamber, glocks make terrible hammers. If you don't pull the trigger, it won't fire-period. A proper holster should allow you to draw and re-holster your gun without ever touching the trigger. Look into a holster with a combat cut
I agree. The best safety IS in one's brain. And an empty-chambered Glock is almost useless.
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