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Old 01-27-2013, 21:57   #21
DaBigBR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGUNS911 View Post
This is what I received in a memo. I was incorrect on the model # of the holster. The memo says that does not matter as all ALS light mount holster's are effected.

Washington Association of Sheriffs and police chiefs

Sarariland model 6360-2192 ALS light mount holster

Our agency had a handgun discharge while it was in the holster, on a patrol call for service. This was the result of a child getting his finger into the trigger guard and pressing the trigger. This incident turned out as good as it could with o injury and minor property damage. An inquiry to what happened occurred and the following was found.

1. The holster was a Sarariland model 6360-2192 ALS light mount holster, set up for Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm.

2. With a little work and a proper angle (due to the holster mold being low cut and wide near trigger) an adult can get a finger into the trigger and fire the weapon.

3. Children have a mush easier time getting to the trigger with their smaller appendages.

4. Research around the nation has shown two other incidents where the same type of discharge happened during a fights with a mental ill subject. One resulted in a back up officer being shot in the leg.

5. The manufacturer indicates trigger access is because of the light/laser width and holstering issues.

6. There is no projected fix/solution date to this issue.

7. This is not unique to only S&W handguns.

8. Non light mount ALS 6360 holsters do not have this trigger access issue.

In Kent PD's research, the Safariland ALS holster is still the best retention holster on the marker, and we are going to keep this (non light mount version) as our primary duty holster. With that said, our agency has a solvable safety issue with the ALS 6360-2192 light mount holster. Until the manufacture solves the trigger access problem or another manufacturer with similar retention values/ trigger protection are found, we are taking all ALS light mounted holsters out of service and issuing standard non light holsters.

If you have any questions please contact Kent Police Department Range Master Chris Sprague (253) 856-5857 or Sergeant Bill Blowers at (253) 856-5858.



So there you go, that is what I know as of now. Bigguns911
Ridiculous. You come up with three incidents of this type nationwide involving the most commonly used holster on the market, the manufacturer explains, correctly, that their product is not the issue, the light is, and they still call this "solvable" and pull the holsters. How about they come up with the number of incidents where a tactical light was beneficial? Better yet, the number of incidents where the ALS holster's retention system prevented a gun grab and there was no unintentional discharge. GOOD LUCK.

And who proof-read that thing?
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Old 01-27-2013, 22:35   #22
BIGGUNS911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBigBR View Post
Ridiculous. You come up with three incidents of this type nationwide involving the most commonly used holster on the market, the manufacturer explains, correctly, that their product is not the issue, the light is, and they still call this "solvable" and pull the holsters. How about they come up with the number of incidents where a tactical light was beneficial? Better yet, the number of incidents where the ALS holster's retention system prevented a gun grab and there was no unintentional discharge. GOOD LUCK.

And who proof-read that thing?
Just for the record that is exactly how it was written when I got the memo. This time it was not me screwing up the grammar or spelling.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:44   #23
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Originally Posted by BIGGUNS911 View Post
Just for the record that is exactly how it was written when I got the memo. This time it was not me screwing up the grammar or spelling.
I figured as much. I had considered editing the first "you" in my post to "they" to make sure you didn't think I was talking about you.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:11   #24
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I am sure the guys who wrote the memo are swell fellas but because some cop let a child stick their finger in his holster I am not going to get my panties in a bunch. The gap, or whatever is not news to me anyway. I have seen it, thought about it, messed with it and decided it was not an issue for me.

Furthermore, if they didn't carry a woman's gun and carried a real gun with a hammer and a safety that could not happen in that holster.

MF
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:42   #25
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Originally Posted by Goldendog Redux View Post

Furthermore, if they didn't carry a woman's gun and carried a real gun with a hammer and a safety that could not happen in that holster.

MF
I know some wimmins who carry themselves a 1911.....
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Old 01-28-2013, 15:39   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBigBR View Post
This.

The light is wider than the trigger guard, so the holster needs to be wider than the light. That necessarily creates a gap between the trigger guard and the holster. I have never used a WML holster where you could NOT get something like a finger or pen in there to the trigger, but alas I have never tried to pull the trigger in that situation.
Yeah...common sense. I don't think they will find what they are looking for if they stick with weapon mounted lights.
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Old 01-28-2013, 22:16   #27
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not the holster but the light

are single cell WML's any skinnier than the double cell lights?
Would that even help?
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Old 01-28-2013, 22:19   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jokon View Post
are single cell WML's any skinnier than the double cell lights?
Would that even help?
Is there even such a thing that fits on handgun rails?
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:48   #29
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The guy that this happened to is in my department, though i am just a lowly corrections officer. He's pretty squared-away, and I havent seen him since this happened so I havent had a chance to ask him about it. I will say this- that area is pretty "happenin," and chaotic and dangerous calls are the everyday norm, I would venture to say it wouldve been a serious case where he would be so distracted for a small girl to come up on his gun like that.

Also, the memo issued from our agency originally was much longer than that, so i dunno who did the chopping for those short bullet points.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:07   #30
Bill Lumberg
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Nothing new. A small finger, (or your finger, if you're not afraid to lose some skin) can actuate the trigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGUNS911 View Post
Got a memo today advising everyone with a safariland 6285 holster is to stop using them immediately. This is due to an incident on the West side of Washington State. The memo advised the officers duty weapon was discharged while in the holster. The info was a child put it's finger in the holster and was able to pull the trigger on a S&W M&P 9MM. I don't have the memo with me of I could give more on the department name and such.

I carry a Glock 22 with a TLR1S. I attempted to get my finger in the trigger guard area. I was able to touch the trigger but I could not pull it. The Glock safe action trigger did not allow me to pull it.

None the less I had to go to the department issue gun today with no tac light.

so any suggestions on a new duty holster that will fit my Glock 22 with a TLR1S on it? It must be a level 2 or higher.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:12   #31
DaBigBR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jokon View Post
are single cell WML's any skinnier than the double cell lights?
Would that even help?
The Blackhawk light is single cell, and we issue it, but I find the same deficiency, plus it doesn't have momentary operation, has a parasitic drain on batteries, leaves you stuck with their holster, and otherwise generally blows. I am on my third or fourth battery and I have turned the light on at exactly one training day.

Glock's dual battery, single stack light might have helped, but I don't think they're that popular and obviously you're refitting holsters.

The best way to prevent such an incident is to protect your gun.
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