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Old 05-13-2012, 21:59   #21
MisterMark
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After spending years trying to convince people that the problem is the criminal and not the weapon, it became clear that there is little that can be said.

Where the fear of guns is entrenched you have no chance of changing anyone's mind. It isn't going to happen. Accept that. It is possible to sow some seeds. To encourage people to think, and to perhaps use one of the previously listed arguments to lead to a question.

But if you don't accept how hard it is for people to question their deeply held belief systems the argument will bring nothing but bad feelings and frustration.

My advise, should you wish to use any specific arguments or tactics is to speak kindly, speak softly and retreat to silence quickly.

Asking the person if they really want to hear your response before you answer can help open their mind.

If you get the golden opportunity to really open someones eyes please PROTECT THEIR EGO. Let them save face, and give all respect due to someone who has taken the tremendous step of changing their mind on something that is core to how they see the world. It is rare, painful, difficult and amazing thing that they have achieved.

Fear of guns is as deep as any religious or political belief.
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Old 07-27-2012, 16:07   #22
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Just stole this from Reddit.. pretty good IMO

Quote:
Bad people use the internet for child pornography, so if you support a free and open internet you are supporting child pornography. When the framers of the Constitution wrote the 1st Amendment, they obviously had no idea that technological advancements like the internet would come along.
I'm not saying we need to ban the internet, but we need internet control to stop the bad guys. All IPs should be registered with the government, and you should need to pass a psychological evaluation before being allowed to get on the internet to make sure you won't drive the permanent psychological harm of children, which some would argue is worse than death for those that are sexually abused.
I'm tired of hearing about ****tards on Reddit DEFENDING THEIR INTERWEBZ.
But the internet is not designed for CP and serves so much greater a purpose, guns are only designed for murder.
My guns are designed to keep bad guys breaking into my home and murdering me, which for me is more important that open information.
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Old 07-27-2012, 16:13   #23
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Good stuff.
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Old 07-27-2012, 18:41   #24
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Mark Levin said the following on his radio show to a caller when talking about the CO shooting and guns...
Levin07202012.mp3
(At about the 59 minute mark)

Quote:
People who don't own guns are telling the rest of us that we shouldn't either. Seems to me that they've made a life choice about themselves and their own families that if somebody breaks into their home, weather than can outrun the bullet to the telephone. You know that is their decision. But they don't have a right impose that decision on you and me. Even putting the Constitution or the law aside. The most valuable thing we have is our family and our lives. In that context nothing else matters, or liberty, or lives, our person-hood. And if some-body's is trying to take it, or abuse it, or harm a loved one, well then by god we have to do be able to do what ever we can to stop it. And if you want to unilaterally put yourself into a position where you can't, that's up to you. But don't impose that position on the rest of us. That's all.
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Old 08-14-2012, 21:26   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy_K View Post
"Those are meant for one thing only, killing."
Boy do I get sick of that one -- guns are only for killing people. That's not actually true, but let's say it was. I'm sure even they could name people who need to be killed, some of them in the nick of time. Bin Laden. Hitler. Taliban insurgents. Timothy McVeigh. Holmes. In the same breath they say we have police to protect us (we don't) but hiding in that statement is a tacit admission that the gun, used by the cop to impose his ultimate will, is good and necessary. So it's the citizen with the gun that bothers them. Usually at this point I say they're welcome to their opinion, and they can stand behind me when the SHTF.

Last edited by brokenprism; 08-14-2012 at 21:27..
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:11   #26
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Originally Posted by Jeremy_K View Post
Some of my worst conversations have been with fellow gun owners, namely hunters. They ask "why do you need high cap mags"? "Why do you need an assault rifle"? Those are meant for one thing only, killing. They get real quiet when I ask them "why do you need a pump shotgun"? Why do you need a gun period? The Indians hunted with bow an arrow. Cavemen hunted with spears and rocks. I'm not knocking hunters as I am an avid hunter. I just choose to have a variety of different types of firearms besides your stereotypical hunting arms. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.
Same here. I love hunting, but I am sick and tired of the "hunter mentality" when it comes to gun ownership. I refer to these people as "Gun Owner Light." They fail to see the big picture.

A good way I've found to shut up antis is to just tell them "Come get em" They have no rebuttal for that haha
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:08   #27
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Originally Posted by Debunk Brady View Post
Every time I have a discussion with an anti, I go browsing the internet for statistics that I vaguely remember. Usually when I find them they have no sources, which detracts from credibility.

Accordingly, I compiled a list of statistics WITH SOURCES and tried to put it into a reader-friendly format. If you ever have a discussion with an anti, this list might help you.
Latest one had her boyfriend's friend or something shot and killed by a friend, something crazy like that. Not sure if she saw it or not. Guns throw her into flight or fight mode. Been hanging around her more and more, finally got to the point where Sunday, she had to plug her phone in. She reached down over me next to her bed where I had put my gun on the ground next to my phone in the charger, and hooked hers up. No real reaction to the gun. I'd call that progress.

Its not about facts with anti-gunners, because their reasoning is not based in logic. Its about showing them that responsible, calm, NORMAL people own and carry guns. That doesn't mean you go on some dumbass open carry crusade or try to sit them down and make them uncomfortable with a bunch of talk about guns. No, all that does is drive them farther away from guns. It means you show them that people, very nice and friendly people, legally carry and don't pose a danger to them. Eventually they just get used to it.

Last edited by John Rambo; 08-15-2012 at 12:08..
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Old 08-15-2012, 18:45   #28
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General comment...

When you talk to and anti, being combative and aggressive is not the way to go. Be polite and calm even if they aren't. If they start getting agitated, don't respond in kind.

It is helpful to say that you understand their concerns... We all agree with that mass shooters are awful and are frightening, and that establishes common ground.

You can counter by pointing out that a home invasion is also frightening, and that the cops do not have the ability to respond in time.


If you are polite and reasoned, you have a fighting chance of winning someone, and a very good chance of planting our counter-position that gives them pause.

What you have the best shot at is showing an anti that a gun owner can be a nice person. That matters a lot.
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Old 08-15-2012, 19:20   #29
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Originally Posted by frizz View Post
If you are polite and reasoned, you have a fighting chance of winning someone, and a very good chance of planting our counter-position that gives them pause.

What you have the best shot at is showing an anti that a gun owner can be a nice person. That matters a lot.
I really believe this to be true. This whole gun/anti-gun thing boils down to perception. If you can show them that you are reasonable and have sound logic that backs your perception, the seed can be planted. If you are perceived as an unreasonable person unwilling to consider their point of view and find common ground, they will listen to little to nothing that you say.

D
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:12   #30
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This is an excellent historical overview to gun control, it's motives, and its effects.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0694e.asp
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:18   #31
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Originally Posted by ConcealedG23 View Post
I really believe this to be true. This whole gun/anti-gun thing boils down to perception. If you can show them that you are reasonable and have sound logic that backs your perception, the seed can be planted. If you are perceived as an unreasonable person unwilling to consider their point of view and find common ground, they will listen to little to nothing that you say.

D
It's obvious you have not had many debates with "TRUE" anti gunners. Logic and fact mean nothing to them. They run on pure emotion. They are not interested in stopping crime (Gun control only increases crime. Proven fact!). There only interest is disarming the common man.
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:55   #32
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Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
It's obvious you have not had many debates with "TRUE" anti gunners. Logic and fact mean nothing to them. They run on pure emotion. They are not interested in stopping crime (Gun control only increases crime. Proven fact!). There only interest is disarming the common man.
That accounts for an incredibly small percentage of antis, mostly reserved for politicans and talking heads who get rich off of preaching fear.

For the average anti, it boils down to that one word. FEAR. Real and uncontrollable FEAR. You're right, there is no logic or fact, its nothing but fear. The only way to change their stance is to make them more comfortable. And leading with, "You just want to disarm everyone!" doesn't do that.
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Old 08-26-2012, 13:53   #33
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Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
That accounts for an incredibly small percentage of antis, mostly reserved for politicans and talking heads who get rich off of preaching fear.

For the average anti, it boils down to that one word. FEAR. Real and uncontrollable FEAR. You're right, there is no logic or fact, its nothing but fear. The only way to change their stance is to make them more comfortable. And leading with, "You just want to disarm everyone!" doesn't do that.
I grewup in New Orleans. There is a large majority that fall into the "fear" category. Most large cities have them. They have been so indoctrinated by the police brass and TV media it's all btt impossible to brake through illogical fear. It makes no difference how one startsa conversation.
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Old 08-26-2012, 16:28   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
That accounts for an incredibly small percentage of antis, mostly reserved for politicans and talking heads who get rich off of preaching fear.

For the average anti, it boils down to that one word. FEAR. Real and uncontrollable FEAR. You're right, there is no logic or fact, its nothing but fear. The only way to change their stance is to make them more comfortable. And leading with, "You just want to disarm everyone!" doesn't do that.
Fear is an emotion.

Almost all anti's I've met over the years are aptly described in the link I posted earlier in this thread. For almost all of them its their emotions that drive their negative view of firearms and those who posses (outside of law enforcement and soldiers) them.
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Old 09-01-2012, 16:12   #35
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I can't remember where I saw this, and I didn't write it. But it really hit home for me, as well as some of my anti-gun friends. The logic is almost impossible to argue with.

1) Get a steak from the fridge.
2) Get a sharp knife from your drawer.
3) Call 911, and start stabbing the steak.
4) Continue stabbing the steak, until help arrives.

5) Imagine that steak is one of your children or wife.

Think this can't happen? It's the primary reason I carry inside my home, and why I do not depend on 911 as my primary source of protection. JM2CW
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:08   #36
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Some great points Panzerfaust. I've printed copies to pass along to friends. Thank you.
How can you be from TN and know who Ghoulardi is?

I love it, you Purple Knif.
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Old 12-30-2012, 13:35   #37
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I could use some research help on this one. One argument that gets a lot of play is that certain countries have virtually no gun violence because they have banned guns. (The usual mentions are England, Australia, and Japan.) I notice that each of these countries are islands. Our permeable borders for drug shipments says to me that a gun prohibition will mean that guns will come in by the same ways. Mexico has very tough gun laws, but their death toll dwarfs our random-nut violence.

Discussion?

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Old 12-30-2012, 18:53   #38
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Devans0 - It's always good to point out that our own freakin' BATFE put a LOT of guns in bloodthirsty criminals' hands Mexico, and there's not one guarantee that those guns or criminals will STAY in Mexico...!!!

Someone posted that eventually we'll be reduced to lever actions and revolvers while all the criminals are packing black-market Glocks and ARs and AKs. Would be a bitter irony if those black market rifles were provided by our own government!
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:32   #39
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15,000 people each year are murdered, 926,000 defend themselves with a firearem (FBI, LOTT et al)

15,000 innocent citizens are killed by drunk drivers each year, zero defensive uses of automobile....henceforth...in the interest of public safety in preventing "CAR" violence...you may not drive your car on Friday or Saturday night....without background ck...no traffic or moving violations or you will be disqualified...then you MAY be granted a special license for friday and saturday night....it is 300 dollars, you will need to install fuel tank limiter that will limit the number of gallons in your fuel tank so when you do drive drunk...the damage you do will be limited
if you dont agree with this maybe you should clean up the bood and guts of the next victim,
you hate kids etc
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:20   #40
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A Re-post

I have used this in the past, when talking to the anti-gun crowd. (including my close-minded "entitled" brother).:

1. Get a steak from the fridge.
2. Get a steak knife from the drawer.
3. Call 911, and start stabbing the steak.
4. Continue stabbing steak until help arrives.
5. Look at steak.

That steak, is YOU, or one of your loved ones.

This scenario, usually shuts them up.

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