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Old 01-24-2013, 20:27   #26
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I have been carrying like 20 yrs with one in the chamber. You want to stack the odds in your favor as much as possible. If your having to pull the gun, then chamber a round, your already stacking the odds in favor of your attacker. Its all training. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
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Old 01-24-2013, 20:27   #27
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I carry one in the chamber. Period. But, if you are uneasy, a great way to start, is with a full mag/no chambered but cocked. Do this for as long as it takes to get comfortable with your gun and holster. After a while, you will find the trigger doesn't magically go off. Then, once you are comfortable, put one in the pipe.
My advice exactly.
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Old 01-24-2013, 20:29   #28
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Practice holstering and carrying. Like said carry it empty but cocked and see what it takes to pull the trigger. Dont use cheap leather or nylon holsters. Once you get used to carrying it loaded around the house and range you will be set. I carry every gun with a round in the chamber whether it has a safety or not. I have been carrying concealed daily for 10 years and I still dont take it for granted, but I am confident in the way I carry. Better safe then sorry.
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Old 01-24-2013, 20:42   #29
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Originally Posted by vandros View Post
I never had and never will have round in the chamber - instead I practice racking the slide when dryfiring. Racking slide instinctively becomes as quick/smooth as drawing from the holster. The time it takes me to take the gun out, rack the slide, and place sights on target is minimal since the gun follows the same trajectory out of the holster and on target without slowing down. Racking the slide takes place while the gun is moving to the target.

My rationale - I want to guarantee no AD due to operator error and I don't want to shoot myself in the hip when the adrenaline dump begins and your fine motor reflexes go out the window making you likely to accidentally place finger on the trigger and squeeze the trigger without realizing you are doing this.

If not cambering round works for Israeli military - a superb force operating in some of the most challenging/dangerous environments - it is good enough for me.

But you need to practice (and practice, and practice) racking the slide. As a bonus, being able to quickly rack the slide makes you faster when clearing malfunctions.
So....... can you draw your weapon and rack the slide with one hand? In a reasonable amount of time, say.... 2 seconds or less?

Could you rack the slide after having fended off a blow from a baseball bat with your left arm, that is now broken in one or more places?

Could you rack the slide with one hand when the lunatic attacking you has stuck his knife into the meaty part of your forearm because you had to block it from entering your chest, and he's now jerking the knife all over hell and gone trying to get it out for another try?

Honestly, I'm not flaming you, i want you to carry however you're comfortable. Just want to give you some scenarios to think about. There is a real chance that in any self defense situation you'll be injured, and who knows what part of your body may or may not be working properly.
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Old 01-24-2013, 20:55   #30
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Originally Posted by Lone Wolf8634 View Post
So....... can you draw your weapon and rack the slide with one hand? In a reasonable amount of time, say.... 2 seconds or less?

Could you rack the slide after having fended off a blow from a baseball bat with your left arm, that is now broken in one or more places?

Could you rack the slide with one hand when the lunatic attacking you has stuck his knife into the meaty part of your forearm because you had to block it from entering your chest, and he's now jerking the knife all over hell and gone trying to get it out for another try?

Honestly, I'm not flaming you, i want you to carry however you're comfortable. Just want to give you some scenarios to think about. There is a real chance that in any self defense situation you'll be injured, and who knows what part of your body may or may not be working properly.
These are good scenarios to ponder... I do practice one-handed chambering - catching the steep-angled back metal sight on the belt, or other clothing I'm wearing. I would concede that this is not the situation you want to find yourself in...

I think some of the scenarios you mentioned can be mitigated with situational awareness: being mindful of the corners, low-light areas, etc. Not all scenarios, but some. But, I guess nothing will effectively address every scenario - unless you are willing to always carry a gun with 33-round mag and have it always in your hand and always with cartridge in the chamber 24/7...
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Old 01-24-2013, 21:04   #31
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Only one way to CCW- and that is, one in the chamber.

Quality training can alleviate any concerns and instill competence and confidence.
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Old 01-24-2013, 21:04   #32
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#1 is to get a good holster. Be careful of any that have a thumb snap. The reason is that holsters with thumb snaps have had the retention strap fall through the trigger guard during the holstering process. The gun is then pushed into the holster where the strap presses against the trigger.

I use either a Galco Concealable or a Sparks VM-II for my G-22. I have carried with a loaded chamber for over 20 years that way and have yet to experience the gun going off so I think you are pretty safe. As long as you do not make it a habit to draw and holster your gun several times a day it will be a non issue. If you want to practice your drawing and holstering capabilities, then unload the gun first. Never practice your gun handling with a hot gun.
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Old 01-24-2013, 21:05   #33
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Originally Posted by vandros View Post
These are good scenarios to ponder... I do practice one-handed chambering - catching the steep-angled back metal sight on the belt, or other clothing I'm wearing. I would concede that this is not the situation you want to find yourself in...

I think some of the scenarios you mentioned can be mitigated with situational awareness: being mindful of the corners, low-light areas, etc. Not all scenarios, but some. But, I guess nothing will effectively address every scenario - unless you are willing to always carry a gun with 33-round mag in your hand with cartridge in the chamber 24/7...
As always, its the individuals choice of where the line is drawn. Where you feel comfortable is up to you.

Personally, I leave my gun in my holster instead of my hand, the 2 extra mags are on my belt or my ankle for a total of 46 rounds (3 mags plus one in the tube). So not a 33 round mag in my hand....but close!!
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Old 01-24-2013, 21:12   #34
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As always, its the individuals choice of where the line is drawn. Where you feel comfortable is up to you.
Yep, I agree, your preference should come from your own threat assessments and assessments of your abilities and where you draw a line between being perfectly protected against BGs and having a perfect prevention of accidental discharges.
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Old 01-24-2013, 21:17   #35
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Your gun isn't gonna get mad and just decide to shoot you in the thigh.
That is hilarious.


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Old 01-24-2013, 21:35   #36
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These are good scenarios to ponder... I do practice one-handed chambering - catching the steep-angled back metal sight on the belt, or other clothing I'm wearing. I would concede that this is not the situation you want to find yourself in...

I think some of the scenarios you mentioned can be mitigated with situational awareness: being mindful of the corners, low-light areas, etc. Not all scenarios, but some. But, I guess nothing will effectively address every scenario - unless you are willing to always carry a gun with 33-round mag and have it always in your hand and always with cartridge in the chamber 24/7...
To add to the scenarios. You can draw and rack while laying on your back and it takes no extra movement or time? How about when there is no time to present your weapon and firing from the side immediately after drawing is the only option? Your weak arm is incapacitated because someone else got off the first shot? You're carrying a child? You feel 100% ready in ideal situations. Ideal situations rarely happen in a gun fight. It is up to you though. My advise is go take a defensive pistol class where they put you in real life scenarios and see how adequate your system is.
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Old 01-24-2013, 21:38   #37
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Oh and OP, GLOCKS have mags not clips. One of my pet peeves (along with a lot of others).

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Old 01-24-2013, 21:40   #38
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Originally Posted by vandros View Post
and having a perfect prevention of accidental discharges.
Properly maintained GLOCKS do not accidentally discharge, they are negligently discharged.
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Old 01-24-2013, 22:25   #39
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Always one in the chamber all the time. Put it in the holster in the morning loaded and in the safe at night loaded.Only time to unload is when you switch carry ammo to range ammo and for cleaning.
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Old 01-24-2013, 22:41   #40
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If you're not comfortable with one in the chamber you can always just keep one round in your pocket like Barney Fife.
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Old 01-24-2013, 23:07   #41
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Originally Posted by vandros View Post
These are good scenarios to ponder... I do practice one-handed chambering - catching the steep-angled back metal sight on the belt, or other clothing I'm wearing. I would concede that this is not the situation you want to find yourself in...

I think some of the scenarios you mentioned can be mitigated with situational awareness: being mindful of the corners, low-light areas, etc. Not all scenarios, but some. But, I guess nothing will effectively address every scenario - unless you are willing to always carry a gun with 33-round mag and have it always in your hand and always with cartridge in the chamber 24/7...
Or more realistically vandros, how about e possibility that your weak hand might be busy doing something else? Like calling for help on a cellphone, opening a door, holding back a child or your wife. Pushing said loved one out of the way. Honestly folks. I fear for those of you who are so scared of their Glocks having an "accidental discharge" that you'd carry the dang thing without ammo ready. As a full time cop and LE weapons/tactics instructor, this is one of the most irresponsible methods of weapons handling I've heard of. I've been shooting since I was 5 or 6 (about 37 years now) and I was taught how to safely operate a lot of different guns. I have never had an AD. And I've never carried an empty chamber. OP, your CHL instructor is a clown and would be laughed off the range even here in nutty tree-hugging California. I wish you both the best, but fear for anyone who operates this way. You might want to consider the above-mentioned spray and rape whistle.
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Old 01-24-2013, 23:15   #42
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Four feet, you are beyond lost, unless you can fend the person off with one hand long enough to draw. As has been widely discussed, the average person can cover 21 feet in about 2 seconds or less. The vast majority people would be hard pressed to draw and get a round on target in 2 seconds.
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Old 01-24-2013, 23:47   #43
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I ALWAYS carry one in the chamber. You might not always have time to draw your weapon then cock it. I feel that having my G19 locked, cocked, and ready to rock is an advantage!
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Old 01-24-2013, 23:59   #44
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Hey guys,
I just got my CHL in TX and am deciding how I will carry my G23. I have heard arguments for keeping one in the chamber and keeping all in the clip, and I'm still stuck on the decision. I want y'alls opinions. I feel uneasy carrying one in the chamber as the glock has no external safety, but I don't want to waste time and possibly alert an enemy racking the slide if it ever comes down to it. Help me Glock Talk.
If you feel uneasy about one in the chamber, carry your gun for the first few days/weeks...as long as it takes with a full magazine and nothing in the chamber.

As to carrying one in the chamber, yes, definitely something I do.
Why?
Unless you can guarantee that anyone trying to attack me will give me 5-10 second notice and will stand there and wait for me to react I will carry with one in the chamber.
That's right.....of course no one will do that.
So....yes one in the chamber.
Imagine 2-3 seconds of reaction time, you reading the situation and what's the right thing to do, are innocent people near etc. then 3-4 seconds for drawing and getting your weapon on the target, that is if you're good, plus another 2 seconds for you to rack the slide.

I'll stay with one in the chamber.
However don't do it until you start feeling ok about it and get very very used to your Glock.
For example that guy who recently shot him self in the foot or *****, I forgot, in Walmart while he was reaching for his wallet would have never fired that shot if it wasn't for that round in the chamber.
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Old 01-25-2013, 00:06   #45
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I did carry mine with one in the chamber, till my little daughter got bigger and bigger and started huging my leg everytime I came home. I don't know, it just didn't feel right knowing that the barrel with a round in it ready to go was pointing at her head, eventough I knew that it won't go off without pulling the trigger. I just couldn't carry it anymore with one in the chamber.

Last edited by Made in Austria; 01-25-2013 at 00:16..
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Old 01-25-2013, 00:27   #46
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Simple, if you don't want to or are skeptical about carrying with you're glock chambered. Don't carry a gun. What would be the point? U would have to draw rack the slide then fire. Against drawing and firing.

If you got into a gun fight with a guy that had his gun locked and ready to rock(god forbid that ever happen to any of us) and you had a cold chamber. Who do u think would win?
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:36   #47
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Those of you, (referencing the universal "you" throughout this post), that carry unchambered, learn about the Tueller drill. The short version is that from 7 yards, (21ft), a reasonably healthy person can cover that distance in a second and be plunging a knife in your chest repeatedly, by the time you drew your gun. It does NOT factor in having to rack the slide to chamber a round. Oh and as mentioned that's at 7 yards (21 feet). Research tells me your average armed encounter the VAST majority of time will occur at 3 to 4 yards, (9 to 12 feet).

So as your struggling to fend off an attack, possibly after being stabbed with a knife, pummeled with a club, or hit with a closed fist, (presumably by a rather large person), your going to have the presence of mind to, under GREAT stress, manually rack that slide by hooking the rear sight to your belt and pushing down? Not even close to likely when you consider the latter arguably is a fine motor skill, that on the calm of a practice range while standing up is not the easiest task to perform.

In the above scenario your gun WILL become a club! And in the above scenario we haven't even considered multiple attackers.

As far as CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES, where you've elected to use the trigger as a finger rest, and violate the safety rules, well this is a training issue where you commit yourself to abiding by the safety rules 110,000% of the time you are even in the presence of a gun, notably KEEPING YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE AIMING ON TARGET READY TO SHOOT.

The ONLY "accidental discharge" is perhaps when you get klutzy and accidentally fumble a gun in your hands, drop it and it discharges upon impact with the floor/ground. Most high quality guns made in the last thirty years have at least one, but more likely two internal passive safeties to mitigate against this. I might even allow for it happening during a reholstering in a holster that has some design flaw. This is VERY RARE. Likewise if in reholstering your finger is resting on the trigger and the gun discharges, you have committed a CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE. Anytime a finger is remotely on a trigger takes away from the possibility of an "accidental discharge."

The carriage and use of firearms requires a heightened sense of awareness, especially when handling a gun, and keeping your finger off the trigger until on target ready to shoot. If you find yourself letting your finger drift onto the trigger when not ready to shoot, and you absolutely cannot make yourself aware of this eventually tragic habit, then I submit, as I tell my students, that perhaps you'll be better served with pepper spray. I don't mean this as a slight or insult, but as strong advice to keep you and others safe. I see people at the range all the time clueless as to where there finger is, doing administrative reloads with finger on the trigger, and racking the slide with finger on the trigger. These two are the most common. If you do these things you are UNSAFE with a gun. If you are clueless that you do these things with a gun you are DOUBLY UNSAFE!

Carrying with a round chambered and preventing criminally negligent discharges are a matter of taking personal responsibility for seeking training lightyears beyond whatever intro to handguns and or concealed handgun class you've taken.

I'm talking about a 1 or 2 day defensive handgun class with a reputable trainer, (I didn't say famous just reputable), who makes a large part of their living doing this. This class will teach you how to shoot and manipulate your gun under stress, and instill good habits. You'll usually shoot more than a few hundred rounds in the class. Of course the class will likely cost more than a few hundred dollars if it is multi day class, and that doesn't factor in travel, meals and bullets.

And no, having your a relative and/or friend that was in the military and/or a police officer to show you how to operate your gun is a BAD idea, unless that persons job in the military and/or police was to TRAIN people how to use handguns, and they had taken/received highly specialized training to LEARN how to instruct people. Again I see it all the time on the range someone with military and or law enforcement with marginal handgun skills, passing along these "skills" to a clueless new shooter. The blind leading the blind. Just because someone was in the infantry, (I was), doesn't mean they know how to shoot a handgun effectively. The same for law enforcement. The county sheriffs office I worked for had us qualify with a Glock 17 once a year, didn't matter if you worked the jail, served high risk warrants, or worked our inter agency drug task force, you qualified ONCE a year. The knowledge I really gained on how to shoot, and teach people, I sought out and mostly paid for myself, save for an instructor certification from a gun range I still work at part time.

If you can afford a gun, and a concealed handgun class, you can afford to take a class, and learn how to actually operate your gun. How can you afford not to? At the end of the day if you don't seek professional training to increase your skill set, and practice those skills frequently then you are fooling yourself in believing you'll magically prevail in the gunfight you've never trained for, AND you'll continue to be UNSAFE.

And all of this was the candy coated version.

Best,

Dave

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Old 01-25-2013, 04:46   #48
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Four feet, you are beyond lost, unless you can fend the person off with one hand long enough to draw. As has been widely discussed, the average person can cover 21 feet in about 2 seconds or less. The vast majority people would be hard pressed to draw and get a round on target in 2 seconds.

This brings up several factors:

First, the importance of practicing over and over your draw and target acquisition (with an unloaded or practice blue/red gun of course). This includes drawing, pointing and directional shooting from the point of your hip, while holding off a defender with your off hand.

Second, the need to have a round in the chamber, because while it's difficult to draw from concealment and get on target in two seconds, it's nearly impossible to do so while also racking the slide during that time frame.

Third, situational awareness. If an attacker is within four feet, and decides to attack with a knife, club, etc., you will be hard pressed to survive the encounter. Most of us are not aware enough of our surroundings on a constant basis, to work hard to keep the distance between us and suspicious/shady individuals, whether that means crossing to the other side of the street, taking another route, or some other action to keep the distance and buy yourself precious seconds if you are attacked.
Tueller drill is not stupid, but it is also not reality. And FWIW, the guys that are getting sliced and diced performing this drill are carrying chambered.

It's just like those martial arts demo's where one guy throws a single punch and freezes while the defender works his way around him throwing kicks and punches until he administers the coup de grace.

It's just a chance to demonstrate some techniques with a live target that people can see. It has nothing to do with actual self-defense.

Tueller drill is the same. It demonstrates how fast someone can cover 21 feet. That is all.

Edit: I'm not disagreeing with your post. It just stimulated my brain cell.

Regards,
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:02   #49
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Carrying a gun unchambered is like carrying a hammer in your holster. As other said before, start carrying with a full mag and unchambered for a couple of days, then start carrying in your house chambered for a few days too, when you fill comfortable go outside and live your life as usual. Other thing that is very important for carrying is having a GOOD HOLSTER, do not save money buying a holster, it is as important as a gun itself, many accidents occur because of holsters failures.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:06   #50
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Carrying a gun unchambered is like carrying a hammer in your holster.
This is one of those utterly ridiculous statements that gets repeated over and over by people who aren't thinking about what they are actually saying.

You can't rack the slide on a hammer and then shoot fifteen rounds at various targets. A gun without a round in the chamber is still a gun and a hammer is, well...just a hammer.

I know it's confusing, but try to keep up.

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