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Old 01-13-2013, 13:41   #1
deadandgone
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10 mm insanity....

A confession of sorts....I am always thinking do I have the right ammo in my G29 for the current weather? I mean I think about how it is loaded...especially in cold weather. When it is warm. not so much.

A taste of my 10 mm, flavor if you will... currently serving up as the first shot a manageable 125 gr Double Tap copper round, followed by a 220 gr lead Underwood, followed by a 180 gr Gold Dot Underwood, followed by a 180 gr Swampfox max load xtp...the logic is expansion followed by penetration followed by expansion etc....


I shoot them all about the same at 7 yards, but I may be overly focused on the temperature thing, heavy clothes and all that.

Am I the only one who obsesses on how their mag is loaded?

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ed
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Old 01-13-2013, 15:31   #2
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Failure drills bro, failure drills...
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Old 01-13-2013, 16:44   #3
dm1906
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100% purely my opinion, for what it's worth, but......

Way overengineered.

Choose ONE round for personal defense. Use it summer, winter, spring and fall. The absolutely certain way to NEVER see the specific conditions you plan for, is to anticipate and prepare for only that. When you stack your mag, the wrong round will be at the wrong position, every time. And, you may not have a chance to get off the correct round. Will you waste ammo before getting to the "right" bullet? You might be right, but what are the chances of anything going right during a shootout? Too much to think about. Keep it simple. If you're worried about not enough penetration, carry an extra mag of deep shooters. Also, the 220 gr. lead hard cast is not an ideal defense bullet. They should be reserved for 4-legged critters (unless you really need to shoot 4 big guys standing in line with one bullet).
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:47   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dm1906 View Post
100% purely my opinion, for what it's worth, but......

Way overengineered.

Choose ONE round for personal defense. Use it summer, winter, spring and fall. The absolutely certain way to NEVER see the specific conditions you plan for, is to anticipate and prepare for only that. When you stack your mag, the wrong round will be at the wrong position, every time. And, you may not have a chance to get off the correct round. Will you waste ammo before getting to the "right" bullet? You might be right, but what are the chances of anything going right during a shootout? Too much to think about. Keep it simple. If you're worried about not enough penetration, carry an extra mag of deep shooters. Also, the 220 gr. lead hard cast is not an ideal defense bullet. They should be reserved for 4-legged critters (unless you really need to shoot 4 big guys standing in line with one bullet).
This is also 100% my opinion, but I totally agree with your opinion.

I have two different defensive rounds. 1 for in town, 1 for the wilderness.

EDIT: With all the deserved respect to Mike Willard of SwampFox (RIP good sir), I am not of the opinion that ammo that is on the razor thin edge is appropriate for my SD ammo. Hunting is one thing, but I want lots of margin for error in an emergency situation. SF ammo -- especially the full power stuff -- is close to or beyond the SAAMI pressure assignments, the design parameters of the gun, and likely beyond the designed velocities for the bullet. An at-the-limit round is more likely to induce failures of all types than a round that is a tad less energetic. Willard had ongoing struggles himself with how hard he was pushing his ammo, and where to draw the limit (as he graciously shared with us 10-Ringers).

Last edited by Taterhead; 01-13-2013 at 23:02..
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:55   #5
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165gr. @ 1400 fps for all weather.

unless youre in weather extremes, and i mean extremes.
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Old 01-13-2013, 20:20   #6
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Sweet Baby Jesus. Please Deadandgone, don't stagger multiple types of ammo in your magazines. If you ever use it that way you would hang in court trying to describe what all those different rounds were intended to do. Find yourself a good SD round (I use Underwood 165 gr. Gold Dots) and stick with it! If I'm worried about winter clothing penetration I take a spare magazine of heavy 200 gr. Swampfox XTC on my offside as a reload. You are WAY over thinking/ over worrying about the perfect scenario, which we know will NEVER happen the way you want it to.
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Old 01-13-2013, 22:28   #7
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Originally Posted by Opie 1 Kenopie View Post
Sweet Baby Jesus. Please Deadandgone, don't stagger multiple types of ammo in your magazines. If you ever use it that way you would hang in court trying to describe what all those different rounds were intended to do. Find yourself a good SD round (I use Underwood 165 gr. Gold Dots) and stick with it! If I'm worried about winter clothing penetration I take a spare magazine of heavy 200 gr. Swampfox XTC on my offside as a reload. You are WAY over thinking/ over worrying about the perfect scenario, which we know will NEVER happen the way you want it to.
I agree with this ^^^ and what others have posted 100%. The whole point of carrying a 10mm is that I don't have to worry about penetration. I will get plenty of penetration. We're talking clothing here, not Kevlar. Even a hot 135 is probably going to go through 7 layers of clothes, through the miscreant, and then out the back 7 layers of clothes. The only thing the clothes are going to do is to possibly clog the hollow point, in which case it's not going to expand and that will guarantee even MORE penetration.

I agree with Opie and have carried my spare mag. with a heavier round than what I have in the gun. The thinking goes, if I ever actually have to shoot 16 rds of my 135 or 155 SD ammo, and I'm still in a gunfight (what are the odds of that? about 10 billion to one?), at that point I might want something like a 180 or 200 for better barrier penetration that could help me to end it with a positive outcome.

It's sad that a lawyer would make such a stupid argument about how/why you had your mag loaded with different ammo, but stupid jurors just might buy into it.

Also, if you ever get into a SD situation where you have to take careful aim (for example, a mall shooter with a rifle), don't you want to have 100% confidence that the round in the chamber is going to shoot to the exact zero of the sights? I couldn't guarantee that with so many different rounds, and even if I knew how one round's zero compared to the other, I might not know what's chambered if shots had been exchanged. That's the last thing I'm going to be thinking of.

I just think keeping it simple is going to give me the edge to win with a higher percentage. Being extra, extra, extra familiar with a particular round in my gun that I have shot over and over and over...that's what I want if a SHTF scenario ever happens to me.

Good luck with your decision, and be safe.
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Old 01-14-2013, 18:25   #8
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thanks...

The thoughts seem to be unified...pick your round, practice with it, and be prepared for 99% of the situations you are likely to encounter....don't concern yourself with the 1%.

The glory of the G29 is that it can shoot so many different rounds that would fit 100% of situations...we have so many choices!!!

All that being said, I think I will load it up with 180 gr Underwood gold dots....and forget about it, unless I spend a lot of time in the woods.

Again, thanks for all the thoughts. They really helped.

ed

Last edited by deadandgone; 01-14-2013 at 18:27..
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Old 01-14-2013, 19:14   #9
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Good shootin' DandG. There are plenty of things to worry about in this world. 10mm performance is not one of the things on my list.
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Old 01-14-2013, 20:25   #10
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Willard carried his 180gr and/or 200 gr xtp at all times ...rarely anything else.
I discussed this with him more than once.

When he passed i had half a box of his 200 xtp's left...wasnt sure what i wanted to do with them...then Underwood came along and eventually loaded the same bullet.

i look at his website evryday because i only have one box of 200gr xtp and i hate it 1
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Old 01-14-2013, 21:23   #11
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If Underwood had a back order list, it would be filled for the next year at least.
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Old 01-14-2013, 21:36   #12
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Well I have to concur with the Single Self Defense type Ammo!
About the current ammo shortages...I have one word! HANDLOADING!
Nothing like suppling your own needs!
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Old 01-15-2013, 00:16   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
About the current ammo shortages...I have one word! HANDLOADING!
Nothing like suppling your own needs!
The shelves on the handloading aisle are getting empty, too. There's still some Longshot and 800-X out there, lucky for the 10mm guys, but Unique? Forget it, along with just about every other powder that can be used to load 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP. I'm sure the primers and bullets won't be far behind. This panic buying session came on a lot quicker than 4 yrs ago, and that one took a good 2 years for supplies to rebound to available levels. Nope, this is definitely a nightmare.
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Old 01-24-2013, 21:26   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadandgone View Post
The thoughts seem to be unified...pick your round, practice with it, and be prepared for 99% of the situations you are likely to encounter....don't concern yourself with the 1%.

The glory of the G29 is that it can shoot so many different rounds that would fit 100% of situations...we have so many choices!!!

All that being said, I think I will load it up with 180 gr Underwood gold dots....and forget about it, unless I spend a lot of time in the woods.

Again, thanks for all the thoughts. They really helped.

ed
Man, just pick a good round for the type of critter you may have to encounter (woods, or street), and get good at shot placement with that round. Not trying to be smart, but you've really been over thinking this one!

The beautiful thing about the 10mm as a self defense round, is that it is awesome. Just make sure you can do your part (practice, practice), and the 10mm will take care of the rest.

Personally, in my G29, I go with 165 gr Underwood, or Winchester 175 gr. Silver Tips. I've got both dialed-in by now, so I'm comfortable with either.

Good luck.
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Old 01-25-2013, 16:55   #15
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I agree with all the guys who responded to the original post. I'll add a few more things: a bonded 155, 165 or 180 gr. bullet is ideal for SD. For coyotes a 135 (still prefer bonded 155) or a 200 for a woods load is fine. I'm not a fan of over 200 gr. either. The case can only hold so much in any cartridge. Sectional density only needs be so high. I'll take a slightly shorter, super tough bullet and some more velocity. On the other end, 135 gr. bullets in 10mm are good for nothing other than blowing up milk jugs, IMO. Accuracy and energy over 50 yards suffers, that's not so much my opinion as fact.
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