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Old 01-23-2013, 07:42   #26
unit1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookand View Post
Its very difficult to find ammo loaded to the original specs of the 357 Sig and 10mm. Underwood is one of those, and its affordable.
That may be true, but there are still too many GT members' anecdotal testimonies regarding reliability problems with boutique ammo, including Underwood. I don't recall reading of similar difficulties of the same frequency with Speer, Federal, Remington or Hornady.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:53   #27
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I use Speer Gold Dots in everything. 9mm, .40, 357 Sig. .45ACP. Speer is very good stufff.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:13   #28
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Here's a post from another thread, documenting the first experience with .357sig in my G23...


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Well today I finally got to test the reliability of the Gen3 G32 barrel in my Gen4 G23.

First up was 200 rounds of WWB 125gr FMJ. As expected, the gun ran flawlessly. All rounds fed fine and ejected strong at 4-o'clock with the exception of 2 BTF (when I had gloves on). Next on the agenda was the hyped Underwood 125gr GDHP. I will admit my hopes were high with this load and I expected them to run just as well, and possibly be a new carry option. I was sorely disappointed.

I ran 50 rounds thru the gun and the second round down range was a light strike. I have 1800 rounds thru this gun (1150x .40/500x 9mm/200x .357) and I've never had a light strike or bad round. I inspected the primer and found that it was in fact a light strike because A) the round fired after a second strike, and B) the first strike's dimple was round and shallow, while the second strike was typical Glock rectangle and deep, and the round went off. There were a total of 4 subsequent light strikes throughout the 50rd box. These results are totally unacceptable in carry ammo. It's dissapointing because of 2 reasons. First, the Underwood is readily available and CHEAP in comparison to other SD loads. At around $30/50, it's the same price as Walmart WWB FMJ, and would allow for more affordable practice with the same round I'd carry. Second, the recoil really isn't that bad compared to the .40. It's hard but less flippy. I still have 100 rounds of the Underwood, which will now be limited to range use only. I will probably try some Winchester PDX-1 next, as it is the ammo I carry in my G23 and M&P Shield, G26, and G21.

Overall I felt the Gen4 G23 handled the .357 load very well, and I am sold on the Gen4 RSA helping tame recoil over the Gen3 springs. Next time I get to the range, I will be running another 200 rounds of WWB and hopefully, 20-40 rounds of PDX-1 (at $1+ per round, OUCH). But the consensus so far is: Gen3 barrels in Gen4 guns work! 500 of 9mm and 250 of .357 so far. Stay tuned!
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Old 01-23-2013, 20:05   #29
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Last weekend I used the Winchhester PDX1 357 Sig 125gr HP in a hunting situation. The bullet preformed perfectly. I have not ran the PDX1 thru the chrono yet but the box states muzzle velocity of 1350 fps (using FBI test protcol. I don't know what that is).

I shot the round out of a 4.25" barrel. I don't have any other experience with the 357 Sig. I will be using it in the future some.
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Old 01-23-2013, 20:32   #30
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Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
Last weekend I used the Winchhester PDX1 357 Sig 125gr HP in a hunting situation. The bullet preformed perfectly. I have not ran the PDX1 thru the chrono yet but the box states muzzle velocity of 1350 fps (using FBI test protcol. I don't know what that is).

I shot the round out of a 4.25" barrel. I don't have any other experience with the 357 Sig. I will be using it in the future some.

The Ranger Bonded is supposed to be the same round just in 50rd boxes.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:29   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf View Post
http://youtu.be/w9tMqnNXaDY

The Ranger Bonded is supposed to be the same round just in 50rd boxes.

Last weekend tested 50 rounds of Underwood 125gr Gold Dot out of my G32 barreled Gen4 G23. I had 4 light strikes that fired after a second strike. I think this is definitely unacceptable to carry, but I have another 100 rounds to test, hoping it was possibly just a bad batch. The next day I picked up 2 boxes of PDX-1 to try out. I carry PDX-1 exclusively in all of my defensive loads (9mm/.40/.45) so we will see how this pans out...
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:20   #32
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I would say 4 failures out of 50rds is very very bad.

The QC issues I have seen posted and experienced myself with Winchester over the past couple years have turned me away from Winchester. The failures experienced with members here with Underwood keeps me away also.

The Federal HST and Golden Sabre Bonded are two good .357sig rounds which I use. The Gold Dots are good and I tried them, I just did not care for the rougher feeding vs the HST and GSB.

Last edited by dkf; 01-24-2013 at 09:29..
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:57   #33
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Originally Posted by dkf View Post
I would say 4 failures out of 50rds is very very bad.

The QC issues I have seen posted and experienced myself with Winchester over the past couple years have turned me away from Winchester. The failures experienced with members here with Underwood keeps me away also.

The Federal HST and Golden Sabre Bonded are two good .357sig rounds which I use. The Gold Dots are good and I tried them, I just did not care for the rougher feeding vs the HST and GSB.
Yeah, almost 10% failure is completely unacceptable. I'd say even 1% or half of 1% failure is no good...
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:39   #34
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If I were to venture a guess (and I will) I would say that Underwood, as is every other maker, is being slammed right now by tremendous demand and when that happens something has to give. This is where the error rate increases and when one is not using industrial grade eqpmt., such as the Big Boys have, well.....


Just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-24-2013, 17:50   #35
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Ammo is so hard to find nowadays, I wouldn't be too choosy with .357 SIG.
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Old 01-24-2013, 20:18   #36
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Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
Ammo is so hard to find nowadays, I wouldn't be too choosy with .357 SIG.

At Cabela's, it was the last handgun caliber left on the shelf, along with 10mm.....


Glad I didn't consolidate to one caliber like so many others. A few people I know went to 9mm/.223 exclusively are kicking themselves right about now... especially those who didn't stock up on ammo.
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Old 01-26-2013, 21:36   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Rod45 View Post
Last weekend tested 50 rounds of Underwood 125gr Gold Dot out of my G32 barreled Gen4 G23. I had 4 light strikes that fired after a second strike. I think this is definitely unacceptable to carry, but I have another 100 rounds to test, hoping it was possibly just a bad batch. The next day I picked up 2 boxes of PDX-1 to try out. I carry PDX-1 exclusively in all of my defensive loads (9mm/.40/.45) so we will see how this pans out...
Unfortunately, I'm also hearing first-hand reports of the Underwood .357 Gold Dot experiencing light primer strikes. I have not had that problem in practice sessions.

In response to the OP, I'm carrying the Speer Gold Dot in my G32 Gen3, #23918. I am actively seeking the LE product at 25 fps faster, and with the 6 petal design.
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Old 01-27-2013, 21:46   #38
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When I had my g32's I carried Gold Dot and Federal. Killed a deer with the Federal stuff--big 8 point. It put him down solidly with one shot.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:12   #39
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If you are plinking not sure what to tell you currently. I used WWB ammo as often as I could find it. For defensive ammo CCI/Speer probably takes it for mass produced factory ammo. They offer a load that makes good on the claim of 1375fps out of a 4" gun and if you look you can find it in 50rd boxes.

If I went semi-custom I would use Underwood. I have seen I think 5 or so tests on youtube in controlled testing that shows the claimed velocity is as good or better in most cases and they use Gold Dot bullets which are fantastic rounds.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:40   #40
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Anyone measured the COAL of the Underwood Gold Dot loads?

Speer loads both the 53918 and 54234 to 1.125" COAL.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:33   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Rod45 View Post
Last weekend tested 50 rounds of Underwood 125gr Gold Dot out of my G32 barreled Gen4 G23. I had 4 light strikes that fired after a second strike. I think this is definitely unacceptable to carry, but I have another 100 rounds to test, hoping it was possibly just a bad batch. The next day I picked up 2 boxes of PDX-1 to try out. I carry PDX-1 exclusively in all of my defensive loads (9mm/.40/.45) so we will see how this pans out...
I have gone through a ton of Underwood ammo is just about every caliber and never had an issue. My guess is that he bought some hard primers, maybe because components are hard to come by. Hopefully he will hop on this thread to explain, but right now I would advise not using this load. I use HST's by the way for 357, but carry Underwood 9mm 124 GD, + and +p+.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:42   #42
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Originally Posted by T-Rod45 View Post
At Cabela's, it was the last handgun caliber left on the shelf, along with 10mm.....


Glad I didn't consolidate to one caliber like so many others. A few people I know went to 9mm/.223 exclusively are kicking themselves right about now... especially those who didn't stock up on ammo.
I guess that not many people own .357Sigs or 10mm Autos.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:42   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf View Post
http://youtu.be/w9tMqnNXaDY

The Ranger Bonded is supposed to be the same round just in 50rd boxes.
A discussion I had with a Winchester Rep. was that these are indeed the same as the Winchester Bonded Rangers, so you may save some money buying 50 round boxes. He also told me that this was developed at the request of the Secret Service. It looks good, but my concern is that it takes over 2" before it starts to expand.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:11   #44
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After reading the thread about using reloads for PD ammo*...

...I'll be trying the Speer GDs (54234) again. I shot a 50-box or two a few years ago and don't recall ANY negative issues with them. FWIW, this ammo achieved a 10' velocity of 1372FPS from a 32 with a LW 4.5" barrel, so it ought to get to about 1400 in my 31 with 5.2" barrel.

Caliber Corner
(#54234 on right.)

* I am NOT very concerned about these so-called legal issues, but I'll try the GDs anyway.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:18   #45
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Originally Posted by jeffreybehr View Post
...I'll be trying the Speer GDs (54234) again. I shot a 50-box or two a few years ago and don't recall ANY negative issues with them. FWIW, this ammo achieved a 10' velocity of 1372FPS from a 32 with a LW 4.5" barrel, so it ought to get to about 1400 in my 31 with 5.2" barrel.
An excellent, proven .357sig round.

I own the Speer 54234 and also some downloaded BVAC 125-grain ammo that uses factory Speer components. All three BVAC 6-petal Gold Dots expanded perfectly in the one backyard test I conducted a couple of years ago. BVAC claims the velocity is 1300 fps through a 4" barrel.
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Old 02-01-2013, 16:57   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreybehr View Post
...I'll be trying the Speer GDs (54234) again. I shot a 50-box or two a few years ago and don't recall ANY negative issues with them. FWIW, this ammo achieved a 10' velocity of 1372FPS from a 32 with a LW 4.5" barrel, so it ought to get to about 1400 in my 31 with 5.2" barrel.

Caliber Corner
(#54234 on right.)

* I am NOT very concerned about these so-called legal issues, but I'll try the GDs anyway.
GREAT expansion!
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Old 02-01-2013, 17:06   #47
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I'm happy any of these;
Winchester Ranger T-Series
Speer GDHP
Federal HST
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Old 02-01-2013, 17:11   #48
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Back when Double Tap was still smoking fast and doing what the box said I tested and posted results of my tests with a Glock 35 and a Jarvis drop in barrel in 357sig and it was pretty cool.

If I recall correctly we passed 1600fps with the 125gr and the recovered Gold Dot out of the gel was like a fat dime. The 125gr boasted 1550fps with a Glock 31 and we got that and pushed 1600fps with the Glock 31 so I am positive we went over now that I am thinking.

Might have to dig that stuff out again and re-post it.
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Old 02-01-2013, 17:59   #49
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Back when Double Tap was still smoking fast and doing what the box said I tested and posted results of my tests with a Glock 35 and a Jarvis drop in barrel in 357sig and it was pretty cool.

If I recall correctly we passed 1600fps with the 125gr and the recovered Gold Dot out of the gel was like a fat dime. The 125gr boasted 1550fps with a Glock 31 and we got that and pushed 1600fps with the Glock 31 so I am positive we went over now that I am thinking.

Might have to dig that stuff out again and re-post it.
The .357 Sig is a powerful little cartridge.
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Old 02-01-2013, 18:22   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spcwes View Post
Back when Double Tap was still smoking fast and doing what the box said I tested and posted results of my tests with a Glock 35 and a Jarvis drop in barrel in 357sig and it was pretty cool.

If I recall correctly we passed 1600fps with the 125gr and the recovered Gold Dot out of the gel was like a fat dime. The 125gr boasted 1550fps with a Glock 31 and we got that and pushed 1600fps with the Glock 31 so I am positive we went over now that I am thinking.

Might have to dig that stuff out again and re-post it.
That's good to read, since I still have some 2007 variety Double Tap Gold Dots in 125- and 147-grain weights, although I'm sure the bullets are 9mm designs. Nice for back-up ammo, however, as I'm convinced the .357sig bullet design is the right way to go for this caliber.
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