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Old 01-22-2013, 20:49   #1
Redstate
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.45 out of 3" to 3.5" Barrel

It appears that 1911 with 3" barrels are becoming more and more popular for carry. Without doubt, the 3" barrel will have a velocity loss from a 5" barrel.
Is anyone aware of any terminal ballistics tests for these short barrel 1911s?
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Old 01-22-2013, 21:07   #2
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I don't know of any, nothing scientific at least. Seems all .45 ammo tests are done with 5" 1911s. I, personally, don't like anything less than about 3.5" in a .45 acp, preferably 4"+. If I had to go with a 3" gun, I'd rather have 9mm. JMO.
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Old 01-22-2013, 21:53   #3
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I have a 5" colt and a 3"Springfield. From the colt standard 230 hard ball would run around 830fps and the same from the 3" would crono 720-740. Way to slow in my book. It was also a pretty tuff gun to shoot well. At that vel. The fpe is way low.
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Old 01-22-2013, 22:17   #4
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Not a fan of anything less than 3.5" in any caliber but especially .45. I can tolerate 3" in a 9mm but only when I absolutely don't want to carry anything larger.
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Old 01-22-2013, 22:25   #5
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I also don't like a 45 ACP out of a barrel less then 3.5 inches.

But with a 3 inch barrel if you miss you can set them on fire and blind yourself!!
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Old 01-22-2013, 22:28   #6
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A 9mm may have trouble expanding if it doesn't get enough velocity but a ,45 is in no danger of shrinking.

(says the guy with a Smith 908 on his hip)
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Old 01-22-2013, 23:04   #7
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From my 3.5" bbl OM vs 5" 1911:
Fed 185gr+P Hydrashok 975fps vs 1110fps
Rem 230gr GS 770fps vs 830fps
Rem 185gr GS 950fps vs 1050fps
Hrdy 200gr XTP 850fps vs 900fps
So yes, you are going to lose vel, about 50fps. If you are worried about expansion, I recommend a lighter bullet like the 185gr or 200gr. They are actually slightly better performers IMO, when the bbl shortens & vel drops. You get less expansion & sligthty better penetration.
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Old 01-22-2013, 23:28   #8
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dont know what ya think of the kimbers. some guys have good luck with them some dont. I have had very good luck. the three inch Kimber is the one on the bottom. It is the Super Carry Ultra plus. such a nice carry gun. Kimber states is t is 8 round pistol. 8th round gives me Trunning the gun at rouble several ways, I carry it as a seven round. The gun runs good after a little work on the barrel ramp. I use Federal Premium 165 HP low recoil. The gun is pleaset, bullet is effective, Split tims run pretty low. Bow statews `1050 fps at the muzzle. I am not usre if that is FBI compliant are not. Keep in mind if this gun goes into play The bad guy is gonna be close enough to smell. I am going to just trust my life to the great trigger and fast second shot. I am going to break both shoulders down then drag him over to the meat pole and field dress him.

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Old 01-23-2013, 02:16   #9
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:26   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
dont know what ya think of the kimbers. some guys have good luck with them some dont. I have had very good luck. the three inch Kimber is the one on the bottom. It is the Super Carry Ultra plus. such a nice carry gun. Kimber states is t is 8 round pistol. 8th round gives me Trunning the gun at rouble several ways, I carry it as a seven round. The gun runs good after a little work on the barrel ramp. I use Federal Premium 165 HP low recoil. The gun is pleaset, bullet is effective, Split tims run pretty low. Bow statews `1050 fps at the muzzle. I am not usre if that is FBI compliant are not. Keep in mind if this gun goes into play The bad guy is gonna be close enough to smell. I am going to just trust my life to the great trigger and fast second shot. I am going to break both shoulders down then drag him over to the meat pole and field dress him.
Did you type this on a phone?

Relax, just playing, had a little trouble reading it, but I think I got it figured out.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:07   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redstate View Post
It appears that 1911 with 3" barrels are becoming more and more popular for carry. Without doubt, the 3" barrel will have a velocity loss from a 5" barrel.
Is anyone aware of any terminal ballistics tests for these short barrel 1911s?
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....1+short+barrel

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....1+short+barrel
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:53   #12
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From what I have seen, you'd have more problems with getting the gun to run right than worrying about expansion of a HP. Those lil 1911s can be troublesome and gremlin filled.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:58   #13
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Old 01-23-2013, 13:19   #14
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I shoot and carry a 3" STI , not even a burp in close to 1000 rds. through it in all manners of shooting. That is all.
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Old 01-23-2013, 17:38   #15
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Old 01-23-2013, 19:50   #16
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I looked at 3''+ 1911s and with all of my research the purchase would be a roll of the dice. some were very reliable and many not. I wasn't willing to roll the dice. so velocity wouldn't be my concern on a 3''+, it would be reliability when the barrel is less than 4''.
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Old 01-23-2013, 20:39   #17
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I have a 3&3/4" 45 acp that I got before my Glocks. A Sig p220 Compact SAS DAK. It has never missed a beat. I have tested the 165 gr HP Low Recoil Federal Premium a lot. I was interested in the penetation. I carry the p220 compact in a store where controlled penetration would be important IMO. It is the pistol I carry if I am in town and people will be around and the Federal 165 low recoil is the round I carry.

I have carried the p220 compact as a field gun with a magazine of snake shot and an extra magazine of 230 gr gold dot for hunting.

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Old 01-23-2013, 20:54   #18
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The Federal 165 HP low rocoil has a big hole for the HP It does expend well.

I am not recommending you carry this round. I would want you to test for yourself. I have specfic reasons I carry the round when I carry it.

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Old 01-24-2013, 15:17   #19
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I compared velocities of different loads with a Glock 21 and a Glock 30. The first thing I noticed is that the +P loads lost more velocity and created more muzzle flash. The heavier bullet lose less velocity than the lighter weight bullets, but the heavier bullets are then in the range of 44 Special velocities. For my Glock 36 I chose standard pressure Remington 230 grain Golden Sabers to carry in it. I have sometimes found non +P 185 grain Golden Sabers but they aren't common. I even have to look hard to find the 230 grain Golden Sabers as the +P 185 grain Golden Sabers are the most popular. The Remington 45 ACP ammunition seems to be the most reliable feeding JHP's in the in all bullet weights. I did have a Colt Officer's Model that was really picky about which ammunition it would feed.
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Old 01-24-2013, 15:38   #20
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So true, the .45 doesn't have to expand. It is already at .45 caliber - a diameter that 9mms and .357s try hard to expand to. Just go with a good 185gr JHP.
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Old 01-24-2013, 19:22   #21
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Thanks for all the responses so far.
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Old 01-25-2013, 20:41   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redstate View Post
It appears that 1911 with 3" barrels are becoming more and more popular for carry. Without doubt, the 3" barrel will have a velocity loss from a 5" barrel.
Is anyone aware of any terminal ballistics tests for these short barrel 1911s?

Amigo, I did not have the time to read all other replies, just your post. I have used and carried a M1911 45acp forever "when i go to a town or city."

Sometimes I carry my G36. I load my own 'for it', and have a 230gr XTP coming out of that little G36 barrel at 907 fps. Trust me, that is more than enough for excellent penetration on the tuffest hombre's.

I get a tad more out of the M1911 government, but it really don't matter much. I just load my own for the G36 , cause I did not want factory stuff coming out of that 'short barrel' at 700+ fps. 850/900+ fps with a 230 gr (good quality bullet) will dispatch a threat i assure you, and that is from what ever I choose to call "my" experience and my business.

I simply refuse to use anything under 230gr !


Factory ammo for that short a barrel, unless you use buffalo bore, I suppose, is not going to give you much vel. Now, not a great deal of vel is neeed with a big 230gr bullet, but dropping waaaaay down in the high 600's to high 700's in the "shorter barrels", does not appeal to me and i am strictly a big bore shooter and hand loader. Sooo, I prefer in the little G36 to generate something more than 600's or mid 700's. So, I hand load for the G36 with 7.7grs Power pistol, under a 230gr XTP and get a consistant 907-ish fps. Plenty good from any size 45acp. ! And a real bonus to get that from a barrel as short as the G36.



All I got to say. It is enough, and I am very very confident with with it in that short a barrel. If you do NOT reload, then try Buffalo bore. I am not real familiar with a host of other 'factory loads', since i handload, but know enough to know, you won't get that 900+ fps out of 'factory loads' in that short a barrel, outside BB ammo.

BTW... I have 1600 + flawless rounds through the G36 at this vel and with all kinds of HP's.


Hope this helps some.


Strictly big bore for 50 years !










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Old 01-25-2013, 21:38   #23
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Thanks CanyonMan. I have a G36 and I get around 850 fps with factory Ranger T 230 grain out of the G36, and I find that much more than satisfactory. However, the G36 barrel is 3.78 inches long. The original question arises out of my being in the process of attaining a 3.5" barrel Officer sized 1911.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:56   #24
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Thanks CanyonMan. I have a G36 and I get around 850 fps with factory Ranger T 230 grain out of the G36, and I find that much more than satisfactory. However, the G36 barrel is 3.78 inches long. The original question arises out of my being in the process of attaining a 3.5" barrel Officer sized 1911.

Man thats great, and you bet, that's plenty pard !

That 3.5" ain't that much to dance about over 3.78 amigo. If ya don't like the results, then hand load your own if you can. If your getting 850fps in the G36, then I see no problem with the 3.5" just a few fps difference i assure you.


Good luck. Gotta run.


Stay safe amigo.






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Old 01-26-2013, 13:11   #25
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Speer makes .45acp for shorter barrels...although it looks like they consider 4" a short barrel.....

http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx

Gold Dot Short Barrel Personal Protection - 45 Auto


Part Number Cartridge
Bullet Wt. Bullet Type Box Count Bullet Coefficient
23975 45 Auto 230 GDHP-SB 20 0.148

Velocity(in feet per second) Energy (in foot pounds)
Muzzle 50 yards 100 yards Muzzle 50 yards 100 yards
820 783 749 343 313 287

Trajectory if sighted at 25 yards Test Barrel Length in inches Usage
25 yards
50 yards
75 yards
100 yards
0.0 -2.5 -8.5 -18.3 4 1
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