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Old 01-24-2013, 10:05   #26
janice6
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Modern society has made dependency on others more acceptable to our peers, and turning individual self confidence into an arrogant and threatening trait. It is now socially acceptable to survey your friends and family to critique each and every decision. No matter how trivial. It isn't with a concern to make the right decision, it is more-so to ensure that these people, your friends and family, see you as wanting/ needing them and necessary to you, so you will have a good socially acceptable image and a feeling of "security by belonging".

The desire for approval from others is so important now, that it is swamping out the old need to be self reliant and confident in you own abilities. That you feel you really do not need others to contribute to your personal life determining decisions, as they pertain to your future. The change to dependency leaves no room for Independence.

Society in this modern age places more emphasis on being "liked" and having the approval of your peers, than being capable of independent thought and decisions. If you advocate self reliance and determination, you are viewed as a loner and non-conformer, and pushed away from the "group" because they no longer feel you need them. It used to be called growing up, and maturity.

Part of this problem is that the "other people" in your social circle want/need to "help" you make your personal decisions. This make them feel needed, wanted, gives them value and makes them feel more secure in "their" relationship with others. these are the same forces in play as when you were children, and needed the approval of your "group". Immaturity.

These same people may themselves, be incapable of making decisive changes to their own lives, but in telling their peers how to live their lives, they feel some degree of confidence and authority ,by making decisions for others that they are almost incapable of making for themselves.

Remember, it is always easier to tell someone else how to solve their problems, than to solve your own. If you are wrong about your advice to other people, it has no adverse impact on your life. If, however, you are wrong about the decision to solve problems in your life, you have to live with the consequences. This may bring about another episode of whining and wringing of hands when you could be blameless, by saying others made the decision for you and it was their fault, not yours. No personal responsibility.

If you are self confident and decisive, you may make a bad decision about your own life yet be able to say you did the best you could at the time with the information available, and go on to rectify the result.

This trait to accept responsibility for making the wrong decision, or a decision with an unintended adverse result, and then simply set about to correct it, based on new information, is self confidence. The ability to improve personal judgment calls and learn from mistakes is what used to be admired, rather than wallow in self pity and plead for other to solve your problems for you, as is the norm now.

We are going the way of the old Asian culture of not being different from your peers and not being unique in society, don't stand out. Being acceptable is more important than being you. Less problems for you if you are no different than everyone else.

Being different and making our own decisions, even though they may sometimes be wrong, is what makes us the unique individuals we are. This is how we survived and built this one-of-a-kind Nation.

Now we may be seeing our uniqueness going away in favor of togetherness. Let someone else solve our problems for us.

Yeah, I may be full of it, but that's me.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:07   #27
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Everybody is a winner, all kids get a trophy, we don't keep score in youth athletics, everybody is special just for being themselves, everybody is unique, blah blah crap.

You see, they are winners just for waking up in the morning and breathing. No need to achieve, you don't need to do anything better than the next guy, the world owes you a lifetime of favors for being so special.

I would get a job and move out of mom's basement, but they are so unfair at "jobs". They base your value on how good you do your work, how skilled you are, and they don't even take into account how special I am and how blessed they are just to have me show up. It hurts my feelings to be treated like that, like some second class regular person.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:07   #28
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My 20 year old came home from his fourth semester of terrible grades in college. I sat him down, reminded him of the ultimatum I laid on him before his fourth semester had started, and told him he was done unless he could find a way to pay for all of it himself. He leaves March 19 for Air Force basic training.

One less loser. At least I hope.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:12   #29
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Yes we are, the great society helped proliferate the rate that losers breed...
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:26   #30
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Yes, we are raising a generation of complete losers. WWII years saw the emergence of the greatest generation. We have now succeeded in raising the worst generation ever, courtesy of the flower-power generation.
Yep, that's about it.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:30   #31
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I'm 22. Been on my own since 20.

I have friends that are 24-27 that live at home. Parents pay car insurance, medical insurance, phone, do their laundry and make them supper.

Makes me sad.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:41   #32
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You see it here on this site all the time with the endless, "What car should I buy my kid?" threads. HH
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:55   #33
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Crap. I forgot to check with GT about how often I could call and talk to my mom.


What was I thinking?

.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:56   #34
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It has always been that way but it has really gotten worse recently.

We live in interesting times.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:00   #35
Dennis in MA
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Yes, we are raising a generation of complete losers. WWII years saw the emergence of the greatest generation. We have now succeeded in raising the worst generation ever, courtesy of the flower-power generation.
WWII didn't make them that generation, the Depression did. They weren't great, they were molded that way by a society that didn't hand them squat.

You get what you "pay" for. Most of these 20-somethings spent the majority of their years with a Republican controlled White House and a ton of developmental years with a Republican majority in Congress. They ALSO were born into the greatest economic boon (the 90's) we had ever seen and assume it's a birthright thing.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:13   #36
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Absolutely true. We, as parents, are supposed to teach our children until adulthood, and then send them off into the world. Parents do not do any good for their children TO ALLOW THEM to be dependant on mommy and daddy. And this is the future leaders of this country? God help us.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:17   #37
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Dating back to the earliest cave paintings, the line of older generations bemoaning the younger one remains unbroken.
This.

Yes, some things are different now than they were, but lots of things are the same.

Yes, we're raising a lot of losers, but we're raising a lot of good folks too. Honestly that's always been true.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:18   #38
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Helicopter parents => always hovering
Like General McArthur's mom, who moved into a hotel near West Point to be near her boy when he went to Hudson High?

"Helicopter parents" aren't new. What's new is cell phones and Facebook.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:19   #39
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Because I hear the mom say, "I'll go to REI after work, buy you gloves and FedEx them to you. You should have them tomorrow".

What the hell is going on in America? When I was that age, if I told my parents my hands were cold, they would say "go buy warmer gloves".
I'm not that much older, and if I asked my parents to do something like this for me they would probably die laughing.

Idiots aren't new. They've always been around. 50 years ago, the mom and daughter would both still have been worthless, there just wouldn't have been FedEx.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:21   #40
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I get so tired of the whole greatest generation stuff.

There is no way to compare a person born then and now.

Just think how the internet, television and freedom of expression would have changed those back then.

Greatest generation?
No.

Actually, I could say more but I am being civil.






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Old 01-24-2013, 11:26   #41
Dennis in MA
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Like General McArthur's mom, who moved into a hotel near West Point to be near her boy when he went to Hudson High?

"Helicopter parents" aren't new. What's new is cell phones and Facebook.
Gee, I'm not so sure. Do you have kids??? Parents are definitely helicoptering much more than 30 years ago. Some of it is being a good parent. Some of it is trying to get the best (classes, playtime, memories, etc.,) for their children. Then they FORGET to stop that at some point.

I don't recall parents that helicoptered when I was a kid. I just don't. But I see it a lot now. And I see it a lot in CLIENTS who have children 20-35. The one with the 50'somethings is the exception and is a testament more to his wife's selfishness and his desire to be the center of the universe - ergo he has not stopped "nurturing" them. (Wife passed about 12 years ago.)
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:28   #42
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Gee, I'm not so sure. Do you have kids???
I do. I've also, very recently, had teaching experience at both the high school and college levels.

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Parents are definitely helicoptering much more than 30 years ago.
Yep. I don't disagree with you. With internet, cell phones etc it's easier than ever to stay connected and to stay in touch.

That enables people who have a tendency to hover; it makes it easier for them to interfere in their kids' lives.

Where I'm disagreeing with you is the idea that this is something new. Some people have been like this since the beginning of time. It's just that most people didn't have the ability to move somewhere for four years to be near their kid during college.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:41   #43
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Now we may be seeing our uniqueness going away in favor of togetherness. Let someone else solve our problems for us.

Yeah, I may be full of it, but that's me.
I am full of it along with you, amigo.

The future is literally going to be the fictitious Twentieth Century Motor Company headed by Eric, Gerald and Ivy Starnes. Twenty-First Century Marxism will be ruled by Barack Obama and the hippie socialists of the so-called elite university system.

Note well that collectivism does not work among the self-reliant, only the terminally dependent.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:53   #44
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I do. I've also, very recently, had teaching experience at both the high school and college levels.



Yep. I don't disagree with you. With internet, cell phones etc it's easier than ever to stay connected and to stay in touch.

That enables people who have a tendency to hover; it makes it easier for them to interfere in their kids' lives.

Where I'm disagreeing with you is the idea that this is something new. Some people have been like this since the beginning of time. It's just that most people didn't have the ability to move somewhere for four years to be near their kid during college.
Dang. Why did I think you didn't have kids????

I think the helicoptering thing is more "I want my kid to get what's coming to them". I agree some folk have ALWAYS been that way. It's just getting worse. The fallout is at some point the parents die and THEN these people have to grow up. And they will. Probably not nearly with the good results of better parenting, but they'll grow up just the same. Just like the Depression-era folks had to grow up after being spoiled from the end of WWI to the Crash.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:53   #45
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You see it here on this site all the time with the endless, "What car should I buy my kid?" threads. HH
Yea, I forget the username but that guy that freaks out about his daughter driving home from college only 500 miles away and does all the car maintenance for her to boot.

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Old 01-24-2013, 12:22   #46
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Yea, I forget the username but that guy that freaks out about his daughter driving home from college only 500 miles away and does all the car maintenance for her to boot.

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There's another guy here whose daughters have wrecked four cars and he keeps buying them more. HH
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:30   #47
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Lately I'm seeing lots of twenty-something year olds that can't function without their parents.

I work with a woman that has a 21 year old daughter (sorry no pictures). They must talk on the phone 10 times a day. The mom is here in CA with me, the daughter goes to school in Flagstaff.

The other day the daughter calls the mom and tells her, the gloves she has aren't warm enough. How do I know what the call was about?

Because I hear the mom say, "I'll go to REI after work, buy you gloves and FedEx them to you. You should have them tomorrow".

What the hell is going on in America? When I was that age, if I told my parents my hands were cold, they would say "go buy warmer gloves".

So here are ysr_racer's rules for being a loser. If any of the following apply to you, guess what, loooooser !!

Your mom makes your meals
Your mom does your laundry
Your mom is your best friend
You still live at home
You talk to your mom every day

America is in sad shape.

I'm wondering if this is the reason we see so many mass shootings by 20 year old kids, they can't function in the real world.

Hm. My mom is probably one of my best friends, since I don't really have a "best" friend.

I guess I'm a loser, that's 24 years old making 80k a year as a network engineer, living in a house that'll be paid off before I'm 30, and no other debt besides that.


Uh, good chart dude.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:33   #48
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Hm. My mom is probably one of my best friends, since I don't really have a "best" friend.

I guess I'm a loser, that's 24 years old making 80k a year as a network engineer, living in a house that'll be paid off before I'm 30, and no other debt besides that.


Uh, good chart dude.
...and we're done here.

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Old 01-24-2013, 12:50   #49
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Hm. My mom is probably one of my best friends, since I don't really have a "best" friend.

I guess I'm a loser, that's 24 years old making 80k a year as a network engineer, living in a house that'll be paid off before I'm 30, and no other debt besides that.


Uh, good chart dude.

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Old 01-24-2013, 12:54   #50
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You can think it's anecdotal all you want. I see plenty of other successful adults around my age. We just don't sensationalize and bring these cases to light as much as the losers.

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