Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-23-2013, 15:00   #161
BBMW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 251
Picking on one line in a long post, but....

Where in the US do you have trouble getting .40? This is now the dominent LE round in this country and is very widely available (here. Out of the country is another subject.)

In point of fact, with the panic horde buying that happens occasionally, .40 tends to be available when 9mm gets bought out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieG59 View Post
If I am traveling and seek to purchase ammo, I may have problems finding 40 S&W or 10mm. I will likely be able to find 9mm anywhere I travel in the US.
BBMW is offline  
Old 01-23-2013, 15:04   #162
lowflyer
Capitalist
 
lowflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
Picking on one line in a long post, but....

Where in the US do you have trouble getting .40? This is now the dominent LE round in this country and is very widely available (here. Out of the country is another subject.)

In point of fact, with the panic horde buying that happens occasionally, .40 tends to be available when 9mm gets bought out.
That has been my experience as well. My local range has plenty of .40, but has been out of 9mm for weeks.
lowflyer is offline  
Old 01-23-2013, 16:47   #163
Glockbuster
Senior Member
 
Glockbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Middle America
Posts: 1,364
I dont know why some insist in training people to shoot while walking back. To me it has to be one of the most stupid things, walking into unknown territory.
__________________
"Freedom is one of the deepest and noblest aspirations of the human spirit"--President Ronald Reagan
Glockbuster is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 06:57   #164
English
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London
Posts: 5,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockbuster View Post
I dont know why some insist in training people to shoot while walking back. To me it has to be one of the most stupid things, walking into unknown territory.
I entirely agree, but isn't this in the wrong thread?

English
English is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 09:42   #165
Glockbuster
Senior Member
 
Glockbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Middle America
Posts: 1,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by English View Post
I entirely agree, but isn't this in the wrong thread?

English
Hello English, I forgot to make reference to the poor training tactics in the video in post #127. You will now be able to connect.

And I might as well take the opportunity to congratulate you for your valuable contributions here in GT.
__________________
"Freedom is one of the deepest and noblest aspirations of the human spirit"--President Ronald Reagan
Glockbuster is offline  
Old 01-24-2013, 18:55   #166
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
I guess that there are a lot more 9mm owners out there compared to .40 S&W owners.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline  
Old 01-25-2013, 09:26   #167
English
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London
Posts: 5,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockbuster View Post
Hello English, I forgot to make reference to the poor training tactics in the video in post #127. You will now be able to connect.

And I might as well take the opportunity to congratulate you for your valuable contributions here in GT.
Hello Glockbuster,
Thank you for that.

I have just watched the video and the walking backwards wasn't the only thing that made me cringe!

English
English is offline  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:26   #168
uz2bUSMC
10mm defender
 
uz2bUSMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: J-Ville NC
Posts: 3,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockbuster View Post
I dont know why some insist in training people to shoot while walking back. To me it has to be one of the most stupid things, walking into unknown territory.
So, you can not see any scenario where you would need to fire while moving backwards?
__________________
- Without idiots, there would be no baseline for common sense.

- "Our country went through a transition during the last election where the parasites came together and outnumbered the hosts." -jdavionic
uz2bUSMC is offline  
Old 01-25-2013, 13:09   #169
English
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: London
Posts: 5,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC View Post
So, you can not see any scenario where you would need to fire while moving backwards?
The idea behind walking backwards is to do it slowly and smoothly so that you can use the sights effectively and make good shots as you walk. One of the other things in the video is doing the same thing walking forwards.

The problem with doing both things is that your movement does not change the aiming process of you opponent, and he is stationary and so better able to aim and shoot than you are and your opponent might well be behind some kind of cover. This is a kind of mutual suicide pact with the odds more against you than for you. Moving backwards has the added disadvantage that you are in danger of falling over or bumping into something. Either thing makes your situation worse because it disrupts your firing process.

If you are being fired on your first tactic should be to make yourself a difficult target. You do this by moving rapidly across his aim and changing direction rapidly so that he can't get used to the lead he needs. Depending on circumstances, this sideways running motion can be angled forward or backward to get to cover or to flank his position. At close quarters you can run past him at an angle and curve round behind him. You have the advantage in this situation of knowing what you are about to do before you do it. He is always trying to catch up.

What moving rapidly means here is running and changing direction at full acceleration. The only way to do that without falling over is by running forward. Moving fast sideways or backwards just does not work!

If you can point shoot with one hand you can get off quite effective fire at the same time as running, depending on distance. At close range this has the great advantage that you can fire round the clock relative to your body orientation.

English
English is offline  
Old 01-25-2013, 13:22   #170
lowflyer
Capitalist
 
lowflyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Middle Earth
Posts: 79
To tie this back into the topic, learn to shoot a .40, and you will never be forced to walk backwards. :-)
lowflyer is offline  
Old 01-25-2013, 16:20   #171
uz2bUSMC
10mm defender
 
uz2bUSMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: J-Ville NC
Posts: 3,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by English View Post
The idea behind walking back wards is to do it slowly and smoothly so that you can use the sights effectively and make good shots as you walk. One of the other things in the video is doing the same thing walking forwards.

The problem with doing both things is that your movement does not change the aiming process of you opponent, and he is stationary and so better able to aim and shoot than you are and your opponent might well be behind some kind of cover. This is a kind of mutual suicide pact with the odds more against you than for you. Moving backwards has the added disadvantage that you are in danger of falling over or bumping into something. Either thing makes your situation worse because it disrupts your firing process.

The point of moving backwards wouldn't just simply be a preference, it would have to be because of a distinct reason. In general, I would move forward at an angle if all things were equal. If there was cover just a few steps behind me I would chose that over forward or lateral movement without the possibility of cover.

If you are being fired on your first tactic should be to make yourself a difficult target. You do this by moving rapidly across his aim and changing direction rapidly so that he can't get used to the lead he needs. Depending on circumstances, this sideways running motion can be angled forward or backward to get to cover or to flank his position. At close quarters you can run past him at an angle and curve round behind him. You have the advantage in this situation of knowing what you are about to do before you do it. He is always trying to catch up.

I can't say that I just openly agree with this. Yes, you want to be a fast moving target. Yes, you want to make it as difficult for him to hit you as possible. But knowing how well you tend to think things through I would guess that the above was loosely stated. I single bag guy only has a flank and a rear at face value since he will be trying to turn to shoot you. Although I see your point and you have the advantage since you are initiating the movement...you still have to cover a distance he only has to pivot. There is also the factor that your terrain may dictate what you actually can do. You wouldn't want to move into traffic if you were on the roadside and innocent people in your area may (should) dictate where you move for your engagement. Also, I would prefer to get inside his OODA with bullets and movement, not just movement alone.

What moving rapidly means here is running and changing direction at full acceleration. The only way to do that without falling over is by running forward. Moving fast sideways or back wards just does not work!

Again, what movement is feasible may be controlled by the surroundings. A few steps rearward may be preferable if you gain cover in contrast to moving quickly forward to no cover at all...especially if the BG has cover.

If you can point shoot with one hand you can get off quite effective fire at the same time as running, depending on distance. At close range this has the great advantage that you can fire round the clock relative to your body orientation.

English
Just to clarify I should say that I'm not comparing forward vs back or lateral movement compared to rearward movement simply as a preference.
__________________
- Without idiots, there would be no baseline for common sense.

- "Our country went through a transition during the last election where the parasites came together and outnumbered the hosts." -jdavionic
uz2bUSMC is offline  
Old 01-25-2013, 16:31   #172
Bluescot
Senior Member
 
Bluescot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Idaho
Posts: 219
What would be interesting to hear from would be the docs or emts that have treated gun shot wounds and listened to what they have to say.

One of our sons did a surgical residency in a Cleveland Ohio hospital emergency room. They saw a lot of gunshot wounds there.....surprise, Huh?

Since our family has hunted, camped and fished a lot when we were raising our sons I asked him what he learned about gunshot wounds from pistols while there.

He said all gunshot wounds have the potential to be fatal. Having said that he went on to say that a .22lr is a low probability of death. He said he treated a guy that was shot once in the chest and twice in the back. Got him coming and then going. He survived but a few more inches of penetration could have been fatal.

He summarized his limited experience up with maybe a 9mm but if you want to get it done quickly a .40 or a 45ACP is the way to go. He said in one month there he saw 35 gunshot patients.

What is the experience from the medical guys?
Bluescot is offline  
Old 01-25-2013, 16:37   #173
michael_b
BRC #1492
 
michael_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOH212 View Post
He's going to the paintball ranch tomorrow and afterwords he's going home to his mothers basement to play World of Warcraft.

(After he rubs his mothers feet that is.)

Lmao ... Your first post was interesting as well


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
"The thing about quotes on the Internet is you cannot confirm their validity"- Abraham Lincoln

"Compromise on gun-rights? Did Rosa Parks settle for the middle of the bus?"-Mushinto
michael_b is offline  
Old 01-25-2013, 17:31   #174
4949shooter
Senior Member
 
4949shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 12,992


Quote:
Originally Posted by English View Post
The idea behind walking backwards is to do it slowly and smoothly so that you can use the sights effectively and make good shots as you walk. One of the other things in the video is doing the same thing walking forwards.

The problem with doing both things is that your movement does not change the aiming process of you opponent, and he is stationary and so better able to aim and shoot than you are and your opponent might well be behind some kind of cover. This is a kind of mutual suicide pact with the odds more against you than for you. Moving backwards has the added disadvantage that you are in danger of falling over or bumping into something. Either thing makes your situation worse because it disrupts your firing process.

If you are being fired on your first tactic should be to make yourself a difficult target. You do this by moving rapidly across his aim and changing direction rapidly so that he can't get used to the lead he needs. Depending on circumstances, this sideways running motion can be angled forward or backward to get to cover or to flank his position. At close quarters you can run past him at an angle and curve round behind him. You have the advantage in this situation of knowing what you are about to do before you do it. He is always trying to catch up.

What moving rapidly means here is running and changing direction at full acceleration. The only way to do that without falling over is by running forward. Moving fast sideways or backwards just does not work!

If you can point shoot with one hand you can get off quite effective fire at the same time as running, depending on distance. At close range this has the great advantage that you can fire round the clock relative to your body orientation.

English
We are trained to press forward in order to achieve a lawful objective. We aren't trained to move backwards. That having been said we ARE trained to seek cover, so if I had to back pedal a step or two in order to reach it I might think about it. Bur honestly, by that time I should have emptied a mag or two.
__________________
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS
4949shooter is offline  
Old 01-25-2013, 19:45   #175
rustytxrx
Senior Member
 
rustytxrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,068
It has taken me a lot of practice to learn to shoot moving lateraly. I am a righty. moving right seems like and different universe than moving left. very hard skill to learn.
__________________
Rusty
Texas, I luv u
rustytxrx is offline  
Old 01-25-2013, 21:05   #176
concretefuzzynuts
Brew Crew
 
concretefuzzynuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: VB, VA
Posts: 6,254
Thread resurrection.

I've noticed there's been no mention of the fact that the .40 S&W is choice of law enforcement all over the US. There must be a reason other than lobbying.

Also, I've been carrying .40 since 1994. In Glock since 1999. None of my guns have fallen apart.
__________________
GTDS Member #7
GOTOD Member #757
Snub Club Member #757
NRA Member
Member
concretefuzzynuts is offline  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:01   #177
Glockbuster
Senior Member
 
Glockbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Middle America
Posts: 1,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC View Post
So, you can not see any scenario where you would need to fire while moving backwards?
Im thinking your training is more military oriented than self defense for a citizen. But for self defense if you are going to move backwards in that fashion there are better choices. The danger behind you that you cannot see might be greater than that in front of you. English has pointed out the correct things. How can one possibly think you will gain anything by walking back so slowly at the price of accuracy in those precious seconds to make your shots count ? If I have to run Ill run fast and I will look at what Im stumbling upon, I can also fire and make noise at the threats.
__________________
"Freedom is one of the deepest and noblest aspirations of the human spirit"--President Ronald Reagan
Glockbuster is offline  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:06   #178
Glockbuster
Senior Member
 
Glockbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Middle America
Posts: 1,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4949shooter View Post
We are trained to press forward in order to achieve a lawful objective. We aren't trained to move backwards. That having been said we ARE trained to seek cover, so if I had to back pedal a step or two in order to reach it I might think about it. Bur honestly, by that time I should have emptied a mag or two.

Yes, but if you walk back as in the video, how will you know there is cover behind you ? The person in the video did not back pedal a step or two, he walked back quite a bit while firing with no knowledge what was behind him. I wonder how far away were his threats ? Do you think that is the best choice ?
__________________
"Freedom is one of the deepest and noblest aspirations of the human spirit"--President Ronald Reagan
Glockbuster is offline  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:07   #179
Glockbuster
Senior Member
 
Glockbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Middle America
Posts: 1,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustytxrx View Post
It has taken me a lot of practice to learn to shoot moving lateraly. I am a righty. moving right seems like and different universe than moving left. very hard skill to learn.
AHH!! now there is a great choice !!! Id pick moving left if my threat is right handed.
__________________
"Freedom is one of the deepest and noblest aspirations of the human spirit"--President Ronald Reagan

Last edited by Glockbuster; 01-26-2013 at 11:08..
Glockbuster is offline  
Old 01-26-2013, 11:16   #180
jakebrake
cracker
 
jakebrake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: too close to philly
Posts: 7,915
40 sucks.

yes, the 40 on my right hip is a real waste of powder.

and, unlike that moron yeager, i can carry a sucky .40 cal...which, i do.
__________________
God made man, Sam Colt made us equal, John Moses Browning made us civilized... freemasons club Number 57
jakebrake is offline  

 
  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 00:07.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 852
202 Members
650 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31