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Old 01-22-2013, 07:08   #26
Dennis in MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
We live in a country that produces more technological innovation than any other place in the history of ever.

The education system has its problems, but to say that it has "totally failed us" is blind to reality. America's education system still cranks out some of the best and brightest people in the world.
No. It haz todally faled us! Fale fale fale! Name won persom on this 4um that is smurt and was ejakaded in Merica.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:11   #27
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I'm 22 and a college graduate. Without Googling I think it had to do with the cold war. Your quote was said by a president Nixon, wasn't it?

I never learned about the guy. Did not have history in college.

We had more current stuff to learn about. I don't know how long subjects like Business Ethics (lots about Enron) and Economics have been around, but those were the typical generals. I had a lot of computer classes...depending on your age you might not have had them.
Yeah, the "did not have history in college" does disturb me. I was a physics major, but still managed to have an intensive year long Humanities class, plus two History classes (plus political science, philosophy and some things I'm forgetting).

Learning history is extremely important, because human behavior is such that it tends to repeat itself. Studying the past helps us prepare for the future and make good decisions in the present. I was blessed to be taught by a great historian, who taught us not just to read the history, but to research who the authors of those writings were, and always consider their perspective. For when you read a history book, it tells you not just some facts, but it gives you insight into the author and their society as well. Complex stuff...

Lifelong learner here. My oldest son is in public schools in Louisville and just got into the Advanced Program. Basically, a different track which then funnels you into magnet middle schools and then top high schools. I know I'm in Kentucky, but we've got a couple amazingly good public high schools in town. I'm super happy he rocked his test and got on the right track. Teacher quality, high expectations, and a high level of fellow students are all important in my opinion.

And of course hard work, and a good work ethic. My kiddo loves math and science, but I'll guarantee he'll be studying his history too!!!
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:16   #28
Dennis in MA
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Seriously. . .

I went to B-school. Took a year of history. It was basically 2 semesters trying to pack in 10,000 years of time. Too short. You can't learn it all.

I don't think this is a failing of our education system. Is EVERYONE supposed to remember Gorby? Probably not. Chang Kai Sheck? Definitely not. (I only know him from playing Trivial Pursuit in HS 30 years ago.)

From (your definition of) the dawn of man to about 150 years ago, history is easy. Once you get into an era that is within 2 generations of today, the important facts become cloudy.

I remember in History class in HS learning about JFK. Is that bad? No. Should it have been no more than 5 min in one class? Yes. (And it was a whole class and most of a chapter.) We spent more time on Kennedy than on WWII. Because the writers of the History text thought the thing that happened to THEM was more important than the thing that happened to their dads. I think we devoted more time to Vietnam than WWI or WWII.

So looking back on recent history is hard. How many textbooks and classes will talk of Obama in the next 15 years? A lot, I bet. Is he significant because of accomplishments? Nope. But it's recent and since i experienced it, it must be relevant.



All that said. . . I am in my mid-40's and learned more history from my grandparents, watching PBS and taking tours of Boston than anything I ever learned in school.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:17   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
We live in a country that produces more technological innovation than any other place in the history of ever.

The education system has its problems, but to say that it has "totally failed us" is blind to reality. America's education system still cranks out some of the best and brightest people in the world.
Some, yes. But not that many. Our college and universities have to give preferential admissions to US students, or most of them would be filled with better qualified foreign applicants. Our K-12 system is doing a poor job.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:28   #30
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Both my sons graduated high school in the last few years. i was amazed at how the local school system here completely ignored US history, and anything to do with civics. Those kids were seniors before they heard of any history and didn't know jack about our constitution or how our government works.

The only history they got was that Martin Luther King Jr was literally Jesus Christ and walked on water (that came right out of the gate in first grade) and how evil white men were for killing all the indians. Other than that, nothing. They never even told them who Abraham Lincoln was. Terrible.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:35   #31
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The real question is, what are YOU, as parents, doing to correct this? History can be learned from a book. Are your kids given reading assignments at home? Do you talk to them about historical topics important to you? Do they have easy access to history books appropriate to their interests and reading level?

Schools can't teach everything YOU think is important. As a parent you have the lion's share of the responsibility to raise an educated and well rounded citizen.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:44   #32
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Ask the same 9 people who - Honey Boo Boo or Snookie or some jerk wad on The Bachelor is and they will be able to tell you every freaking detail about them.

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Old 01-22-2013, 07:46   #33
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Our education system is definitely in need of reform. The liberal education attitude with programs like no child left behind, focus on standardized testing and the constant teaching to the lowest common denominator is holding back the truly intelligent. I think it breaks down like this. The top 20% of students are as bright or brighter than the past, the bottom 30% are just as ignorant as always. No more,no less. However I think the middle 50% are being dumbed down. They have very little real knowledge. All they are really learning is how to pass tests. The knowledge goes in one ear and out the other as soon as the test is over.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:01   #34
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It's all about the soundbite.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:07   #35
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I'm not sure where I learned it, but I'm a bit older, 33. I think it was too recent to learn in any of my history classes, and I was too young to know what was going on when it happened
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:14   #36
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Yea, I don't doubt it.

I just went and looked at the degree requirements for my school and for a non-history major, you could potentially graduate with only 3 credits (1 course) of history.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:18   #37
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In all honesty, I will be able to go through life without knowing quite a bit of history and i will be just fine. I can't name all the presidents either.
No offense but you sound like a 10 year old, "Why do I have to learn that stuff, I'll never use it".

As a young person you have no clue what will benefit you in later life.
Very few people's lives go as they plan. One day something happens and you are going in a completely different direction.

Personally, I maxed out everything I attempted in life, with the help of stuff I learned early but was sure I was never going to use.


Why do you think the government, companies, powerful people, keep secrets?
Smart people know "knowledge is power".
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:25   #38
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I am not in the least bit shocked. I go through a dozen or so interns every year, we play pop quiz almost daily when I am in the office.
Me either because they dont teach history anymore...my kid is in 7th grade..he has never been taught basic American history in school. the closest they have come so far was Geography and he had to learn states and capitals..he didnt have a single science class until last year 6th grade either. They are more worried about if these kids can do and know algebra in 5th grade that I didnt get or do until 8th grade..and well thats about it..only homework he ever seems to have is Math and Spelling...This year in History they are finally starting on just a bit of stuff(they are studying about Pyramids and ancient Egypt right now) But as far as AMERICAN history or current world history NOTHING.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:35   #39
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No offense but you sound like a 10 year old, "Why do I have to learn that stuff, I'll never use it".
None taken, I don't get upset from randoms on the internet. That was not my intention, sounding like a 10 year old. That's not my mentality either. I know it wouldn't hurt to learn more, it never does.

On the other hand, I know quite a bit about current cyber threats that most people don't know about or understand. Security breaches which include thousands of users CC #'s and accounts are revealed. Do most users know the actions that are being taken and how it can effect them personally? Maybe, maybe not. It's not their fault for not knowing and I'm not going to knock them for it.

Staying well informed is how you stay ahead of the game, whether it's past, current or future.

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:57   #40
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It's like stupidity is a virtue in our country.
Oh, it is! Stupidity is a virtue because it doesn't endanger the self-esteem of the mentally challenged.

Wouldn't want people feeling bad, would we?
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:57   #41
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
We live in a country that produces more technological innovation than any other place in the history of ever.

The education system has its problems, but to say that it has "totally failed us" is blind to reality. America's education system still cranks out some of the best and brightest people in the world.

DD, I agree wholeheartedly, but what I think the OP is suggesting is that there are a whole lot of dumbasses out there..........and I wholeheartedly agree with that, also.


P.S. Also never heard of a college offering a four year degree with zero history requirements....
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:31   #42
Dennis in MA
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It's like you guys think that everyone was a rocket scientist 75 years ago.

News flash: 75 years ago, people were 100% behind FDR.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:32   #43
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I was born In 1984, I don't remember the cold war. I do remember the wall coming down but I didn't understand it. I just knew that my family was really excited about it.
I was born in 1981; I remember when I was a kid that my dad sat me down in front of the TV one day and said "Someday your kids will ask you where you were when this happened."

It was a bunch of young men with sledgehammers standing on top of something and I remember being bored watching it.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:39   #44
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:45   #45
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Originally Posted by M2 Carbine View Post
No offense but you sound like a 10 year old, "Why do I have to learn that stuff, I'll never use it".

As a young person you have no clue what will benefit you in later life.
Very few people's lives go as they plan. One day something happens and you are going in a completely different direction.

Personally, I maxed out everything I attempted in life, with the help of stuff I learned early but was sure I was never going to use.


Why do you think the government, companies, powerful people, keep secrets?
Smart people know "knowledge is power".
You kind of sound like a cranky old man screaming "I'm older than you so I know better."

You can't possibly know the direction anyone's life is going to go better than anyone else.

While I enjoy history and learn all that I can about it, the knowledge I gain really isn't useful to me.

By that I mean, I have more use in my life to learn another programming language or expand my IT skills in other ways to advance my profession.

Just because someone doesn't know something specific doesn't mean they don't know anything.

I'm not saying that our education system can't use some work, because it certainly could. However if history has taught me anything, it's that there were plenty of stupid people in the past as well.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:50   #46
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I may have been a little different but one of my aunts bought me the entire set of World Book Encyclopedia circa 1970 (I was 9) and I read them cover to cover my 4th-5th grade years. I'm talking cover to cover. My father was going to college in 1971 and had to do a big paper on Chang Kai Sheck. He checked out several books on him and I read them. So yeah, I sure the hell know who he was.

In HS I had a history class every single year. In college, even though I was taking mainly math and physics and engineering classes, I had three history courses. I not only know what happened after WWII and up until I was 10 (that would be 1971) but I'm pretty damn well versed in history in most eras. Quiz me if you want. Greek and Roman history, European history, early American history (pre-colonial), colonial American, revolutionary, early American, 1812, Jacksonian, Civil War, the individual history of various states, Indian wars, Spanish American War, progressive era, WWI, the Weinmar Republic, the build up to WWII, of course WWII, Korean conflict, Vietnam, pop culture, on and on and on.

This is what many kids learned "way back then". It was completely normal. Now not all kids were as voracious of a reader as I was (and still am) but I would feel completely ignorant if I didn't have a basic knowledge of history, historical figures, and couldn't apply history's lessons to modern day events.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:58   #47
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You kind of sound like a cranky old man screaming "I'm older than you so I know better."

You can't possibly know the direction anyone's life is going to go better than anyone else.

While I enjoy history and learn all that I can about it, the knowledge I gain really isn't useful to me.

By that I mean, I have more use in my life to learn another programming language or expand my IT skills in other ways to advance my profession.

Just because someone doesn't know something specific doesn't mean they don't know anything.

I'm not saying that our education system can't use some work, because it certainly could. However if history has taught me anything, it's that there were plenty of stupid people in the past as well.
Well said!

I think some people get scared looking at my generation. But wasn't it theirs that decided what my education was to consist of? Aren't they the teachers, leaving out this critical information?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:58   #48
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I can stump you, CC - Early American history - no cheating by using the internet. . . .


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Old 01-22-2013, 09:59   #49
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I may have been a little different but one of my aunts bought me the entire set of World Book Encyclopedia circa 1970 (I was 9) and I read them cover to cover my 4th-5th grade years. I'm talking cover to cover.

I thought I was the only one who did that.....about the same age, too. Sure comes in handy once in a while, no matter what anyone says.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:26   #50
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I'm 23, and from what I understand without looking anything up, Gorbachev was the last leader of the USSR and was instrumental in tearing down the Berlin wall separating East (Communist) from West Germany.

I also believe he won the Noble Peace Prize for bringing about the end of hostilities between the USSR and the US.

I'm not sure if this would be enough to pass or fail in you opinion haha.
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