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Old 01-21-2013, 20:16   #26
Anglin_AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sellersm View Post
He answered that in post #9 above: Hornady LnL.

I'm guessing double-charge as well. I'd definitely weigh those other rounds that haven't been fired. Pull any that are remotely questionable.

Glad you're OK. Could've been much worse.
This is the plan. Thanks
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Old 01-21-2013, 20:19   #27
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if someone gets a double charge on a automatic index press, it's oprator error.
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Old 01-21-2013, 20:43   #28
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im wondering how you got a double charge on a auto indexing press. I did have a situation this weekend as well. I loaded up 300 rounds with no changes on the press after loading 1200 previous rounds. My buddy started shooting and got a squib. We knocked out the bullet and he shot 3 more rounds that puffed and fizzled then another squib. We stopped and i pulled some bullets and they were way under charged. This is a dillion 650. I started throwing charges and they were low. Adjusted untill they were right and ran 5 or 6 rounds and then they were really high. Only thing i can see that may have happened was the powder clumped in the adjustment bar and then finally got knocked loose when i adjusted it. I did leave the powder measure with about 2" of powder in it for 2 weeks. It was a rainy 2 weeks and the humidity may have gotten high in the basement where i load. First time in 20+ years that has happened to me. I guess ill put my powder check back on the press.
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Old 01-21-2013, 21:00   #29
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See how the barrel ripped it self?
I am guessing a squib and then a second shot.
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Old 01-21-2013, 21:01   #30
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snowdog, wondering that also. The only accident I have had on an auto index (SDB) was a squib. My operator error. I pulled a round, weighrd it and did not put powder back in the round.
I did not put a round behind the squib stuck in the barrel, so I came out O.K. Maybe this is a squib, but it's still operator error.
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Old 01-21-2013, 21:03   #31
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If it was a squib, the slide would have to been manually racked and then shot. I don't think squib, though it would be hard to double charge on an autoindexing press I guess anything is possible.

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Old 01-21-2013, 21:05   #32
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i have been the victim of operator error before. You get in a groove and a primer hangs up or something and you play the shell game. if your in a hurry it can happen. i think i would notice a double charge tho. Im guessing a squib as well followed by full charge round.
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Old 01-21-2013, 21:19   #33
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Quote:
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If it was a squib, the slide would have to been manually racked and then shot. I don't think squib, though it would be hard to double charge on an autoindexing press I guess anything is possible.
I have had 1 squib and it cycled the next round in just fine. Thankfully the RO yelled Seize Fire!
I had to use a brass rod and a hammer to get the bullet out of the barrel.
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Old 01-21-2013, 21:26   #34
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I have had 1 squib and it cycled the next round in just fine. Thankfully the RO yelled Seize Fire!
I had to use a brass rod and a hammer to get the bullet out of the barrel.
same here, except I recognized the squib and didn't put a round behind it. Also I was pretty green at the time and paid a gunsmith $35 to get it out.
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Old 01-21-2013, 21:34   #35
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What changes do you plan on making to avoid double or half charges in the future?

I dump the charge into the primered case, immediately pour out and weigh the charge, pour back in the case, seat bullet. This is all on my Lee Single Stage press. Probably made and shot over 10,000 rounds with this method, never had a single issue.
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Old 01-21-2013, 21:52   #36
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Well, only one of two things; a double, w/ BE, likely, or a squib followed by a full pwoer load. I would assume you would have known if there was a squib event & checked. My bet is double. Just another reason I like high loft powders that fill the case at least 1/2 full.

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if someone gets a double charge on a automatic index press, it's oprator error.
Well, anytime you get a double, it's operator error, regradless of press type. As always, be a handloader not a handle puller. Verify EVERY charge visually. If you can't tell the charge is a double or single, change powders, life is far too short.
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Old 01-21-2013, 22:01   #37
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It's is something I've always feared when loading on a progressive press. What powders will fill the case over half full for 45acp with a normal charge?
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Old 01-21-2013, 22:04   #38
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Quote:
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It's is something I've always feared when loading on a progressive press. What powders will fill the case over half full for 45acp with a normal charge?
Well it doesn;t have to be more than half full but enough so a double charge is clearly visible. That rules out TG for sure, BE, ect. If you like uberfast poqders, go for loft like Clays, RedDot, WST, etc. Bulky medium burners will over flow a double or nearly so. Unique, Universal, PP, etc.
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Old 01-21-2013, 22:14   #39
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Was that the "Hornady LNL Classic" or the "Hornady LNL AP"? It looks like everyone has assumed it was the AP but I never saw the OP say that.

I'm curious. Was there anything left in the barrel or did that last round actually go down range?
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Old 01-21-2013, 22:15   #40
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Just glad you are ok!

After looking at the way that barrel split at the lugs, I'd have to agree with the squib followed up by another round (perhaps in a rapid fire situation the squib wasn't detected since Glocks have short trigger resets and fire very quickly).

With my single stage press, I've never had a squib or double load of powder. I always fill 25 rounds at a time and visually check the levels before moving to the press. In my Dillon Sq. Deal, I've had issues with misfed primers, or not aligning the empty brass at the 1st station properly, where the press then indexed without filling the 2nd stage. A quick look in the case at the 3rd stage will catch it. It's easy on progressive loaders to get relaxed, but I have a habit of a quick look inside the case before placing the bullet on top.
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Old 01-21-2013, 22:49   #41
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Scary stuff! Glad you are okay...
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Old 01-21-2013, 22:52   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.slow View Post
...I dump the charge into the primered case, immediately pour out and weigh the charge, pour back in the case, seat bullet. This is all on my Lee Single Stage press. Probably made and shot over 10,000 rounds with this method, never had a single issue.
10,000 rounds in how many years?
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Old 01-21-2013, 23:16   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.slow View Post
What changes do you plan on making to avoid double or half charges in the future?

I dump the charge into the primered case, immediately pour out and weigh the charge, pour back in the case, seat bullet. This is all on my Lee Single Stage press. Probably made and shot over 10,000 rounds with this method, never had a single issue.
You weigh every single charge, for every round? Damn, must take you 2 or 3 hours for every 100 rounds.

With a progressive, at least for pistol shooting.... you can eyeball how much powder is in the case. Just look at each one and you're good to go.

I'm closer to 50,000 rounds in just over 3 years, no squibs or double charges.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:53   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowwdog View Post
im wondering how you got a double charge on a auto indexing press. I did have a situation this weekend as well. I loaded up 300 rounds with no changes on the press after loading 1200 previous rounds. My buddy started shooting and got a squib. We knocked out the bullet and he shot 3 more rounds that puffed and fizzled then another squib. We stopped and i pulled some bullets and they were way under charged. This is a dillion 650. I started throwing charges and they were low. Adjusted untill they were right and ran 5 or 6 rounds and then they were really high. Only thing i can see that may have happened was the powder clumped in the adjustment bar and then finally got knocked loose when i adjusted it. I did leave the powder measure with about 2" of powder in it for 2 weeks. It was a rainy 2 weeks and the humidity may have gotten high in the basement where i load. First time in 20+ years that has happened to me. I guess ill put my powder check back on the press.
I had an issue on my 650 with a couple of squibs. There is an old thread here about it. In short, teaching someone to load and I went to pull out something because he was doing well. I had stressed check every case for a charge and make sure it looks similar to the prior ones several times. We were using WSt so loft was good enough to see a missing or double charge.

At the range has a squib then another.

Went over the machine and found the nut bolt that ran through the bel crank on the powder measure had loosened up. Just enough that the white plastic cube would jump out of the powder bar and back in again.

Just something to check. Of it now was a lock nice new nut on it with a dot of locktite for good measure.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:41   #45
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I had an issue on my 650 with a couple of squibs.

Went over the machine and found the nut bolt that ran through the bel crank on the powder measure had loosened up. Just enough that the white plastic cube would jump out of the powder bar and back in again.

Just something to check. Of it now was a lock nice new nut on it with a dot of locktite for good measure.
That's interesting, I've loaded thousands of rounds with my Dillon Sq. Deal and never had any mechanical problems until last week. I had the same issue you did with the bolt coming loose on the bell crank. I ended up weighing that lot of 50 bullets and found one without powder. I guess that bolt loosening is a common problem with Dillons to watch out for.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:35   #46
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Originally Posted by 45ACP223 View Post
That's interesting, I've loaded thousands of rounds with my Dillon Sq. Deal and never had any mechanical problems until last week. I had the same issue you did with the bolt coming loose on the bell crank. I ended up weighing that lot of 50 bullets and found one without powder. I guess that bolt loosening is a common problem with Dillons to watch out for.
Do you have a nylon locking nut on that bolt? If not get one. I like to lube the power measure with graphite about every 500 rds. and also in doing so making sure all of the dies nuts and all other bolts and nuts are tight.
I found that doubling the nut does not work. Since I installed the nylon locking nut and now Dillon uses them on the powder measure. I have not had one come loose.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:23   #47
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If it was a squib, the slide would have to been manually racked and then shot. I don't think squib, though it would be hard to double charge on an autoindexing press I guess anything is possible.
This is the problem. Too many assume too much. You can get a squib & have the slide cycle if using light springs. You can have a powder issue on ANY progressive press, crap happens. It's why you have to be vigilant & not just be pulling the handle.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:30   #48
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was that the "hornady lnl classic" or the "hornady lnl ap"? It looks like everyone has assumed it was the ap but i never saw the op say that.

I'm curious. Was there anything left in the barrel or did that last round actually go down range?
lnl ap
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:34   #49
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Originally Posted by Anglin_AZ View Post
Hornady LNL

The only way to get a double charge on a LnL or 650 is operator error. I disagree with many when it comes to the safest way to use a progressive. In my experience the LESS you double check everything the LESS likely you are to have a issue. Some people say they check it every 20 rds for instance. That is not safer. Every time you stop your routine you just introduced the opportunity to screw it up that didn't exist before. So the fewer times you stop the process the better. It's important in this discussion to remember you ARE monitoring the powder drop visually and your eyeball/brain combo is able to notice when a powder charge doesn't look right. Besides that, don't stop but every 100 rds to fill the primer tube and then check the powder charge on the one case. BE DOUBLE SURE it has a charge and only one charge. Dump the 100 loaded rounds as well. Then if you have a issue you only have 100 rds that are suspect to deal with.

A unreliable press is a disaster waiting to happen because it introduces more opportunities for you to not reset the press right. That is likely what happened in your situation. Whenever you have a blockage, clear the press completely and start over. This is why I don't abide a press that has stoppages on a regular basis. It must be reliable. I am like a freaking dog on a bone with this.

Glad your OK, sorry about your issue.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:41   #50
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I am paranoid with my loading. I use a LNL AP as well. In station 4 I have the hornady powder check die. So I am always looking at that when I crank the handle to make sure it elevates the right amount, and then I still always visually check the powder level. Sure I could load faster, but I strive for loading safer and having this double check (powder check die, and visual check prior to seating bullet).

Glad to hear you didn't get seriously hurt. I love using Bullseye and TightGroup in my 45s... but carefully check!
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