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Old 01-16-2013, 14:50   #61
hooligan74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
How much time does the average person that lacks belief in unicorns spend chasing down every image of and believer in unicorns to stamp them out?
To be completely fair, how many people have you ever met that tried to convince you how much better your life would be if you simply believed in unicorns and lived your life under their divine guidance?


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If someone made that one of their top priorities in life, wouldn't it be safe to assume, that guy REALLY believes unicorns don't exist?
Yes, when someone is that passionate about convincing you of their belief, even though your lack of belief could never impact them, I certainly question their motives.

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I guess it's just a level of degrees as evidenced by attitudes and actions.
I'm with you 100% on this last bit. Theists and atheists alike, there are good and bad, annoying and easy to get along with, in every group.
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Old 01-16-2013, 14:57   #62
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To be completely fair, how many people have you ever met that tried to convince you how much better your life would be if you simply believed in unicorns and lived your life under their divine guidance?
And that's it right there. We don't have a problem in this country with unicorn believers trying to enact laws that they imagine their mythical unicorns would find acceptable. Thus, no one spends their time debunking unicorns.
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Old 01-16-2013, 15:01   #63
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Pretty much that.
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Old 01-16-2013, 15:46   #64
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To be completely fair, how many people have you ever met that tried to convince you how much better your life would be if you simply believed in unicorns and lived your life under their divine guidance?
In the last 6 months? Same number as theist. Zero. There was a guy about a year ago that PM'd saying he hoped that I would find god. He was polite about it. As best as I can recall at this moment, that's been it for a couple if years.

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Yes, when someone is that passionate about convincing you of their belief, even though your lack of belief could never impact them, I certainly question their motives.



I'm with you 100% on this last bit. Theists and atheists alike, there are good and bad, annoying and easy to get along with, in every group.

There are heroes and zeros in almost any group.
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Old 01-16-2013, 16:04   #65
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
And that's it right there. We don't have a problem in this country with unicorn believers trying to enact laws that they imagine their mythical unicorns would find acceptable. Thus, no one spends their time debunking unicorns.
I think you may have shut this BS debate down for good with that one.



















Nah, I'm not going to get my hopes up.
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Old 01-16-2013, 16:07   #66
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The other side of that question is have there ever been laws based on bad science?

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Old 01-16-2013, 16:09   #67
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The other side of that question is have there ever been laws based on bad science?

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Anything that ever permitted creationism in schools.
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Old 01-16-2013, 16:27   #68
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The other side of that question is have there ever been laws based on bad science?

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Global warming?
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Old 01-16-2013, 17:18   #69
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I am an atheist. I don't believe any form of deity ever existed. I have not looked for god(s) behind the moon, inside the Oval Office, on Jupiter and there are infinite other places I have not checked for the presence of a divine spook.

Having not looked and listened in these various locations does not lead me to believe there is anything like a reasonable possibility that Yahweh, Loki, Wotan, Vishnu or any of the myriad other alleged deites exist anywhere based on observable reality. I also disbelieve that werewolves, vampires, skinwalkers or chupacabras exist.

Agnostic to me suggests acceptance of a reasonable possibility of the existence of a being that can build and populate the earth in 6 days, give donkeys the gift of using human language and do any of the fantastic feats attributed to such beings. I do not consider the gullibility required to seriously believe such fantastic claims to be a reasonable basis for making decisions that will affect my life or the lives of others. For that reason I consider myself atheist and do not bother with the gnostic/agnostic prefix that some other people consider important to attach to the subject of belief/non belief.
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Old 01-16-2013, 17:55   #70
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And that's it right there. We don't have a problem in this country with unicorn believers trying to enact laws that they imagine their mythical unicorns would find acceptable. Thus, no one spends their time debunking unicorns.
Gek, I gotta ask. Where are you going that you are being accosted by all of these theists? Are you setting in the pews every Sunday at church? I drive by a few churches on the way home, and I can't even remember seeing an advertisement on one.

Come on, admit this is selective hypersensitivity where you have the same reaction as a "B" movie vampire at the sight of a cross.

I have been proselytized by many more atheists here than theists, and by neither in real life in many years. The last time a Jehovah's witness was at the door was at least 5 years ago, and they left when I said I was not interested. I was once accosted at work about the evils of Christianity by a coworker, who is openly gay, who calmed down a lot when I informed him that I am agnostic, but that much hostility is unhealthy. None of us will every be accepted by all of us, globally anyway. It's important to be comfortable in your own skin, and while understanding what others may think about you, not really giving a mouse's fart about it.

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Old 01-16-2013, 18:10   #71
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Gek, I gotta ask. Where are you going that you are being accosted by all of these theists? Are you setting in the pews every Sunday at church? I drive by a few churches on the way home, and I can't even remember seeing an advertisement on one.

Come on, admit this is selective hypersensitivity where you have the same reaction as a "B" movie vampire at the sight of a cross.
Did I say that the issue was direct proselytizing? No, I did not. I was clearly referring to theist efforts to pass laws that would restrict everyone to their narrow belief of what their mythical deity mandates (whether the public shares that view of morality or not).

Are you going to seriously tell me that you are completely unaware of the national debates regarding key issues such as stem cell research, gay marriage and abortion? I find that difficult to believe. Rather, I think that you understood my point completely and chose instead to mischaracterize it such that it would be easier to counter (i.e. you built another strawman).
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Old 01-16-2013, 19:12   #72
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Gecko,
Laws are passed without regard to science regularly. Ideology plays a far greater role in the debates you mentioned. Politics, and the laws that result from them are often an attempt to legislate one groups morality over others. Theists have not cornered that market.
It's clear that you're offended by the Theist pushing morality without a scientific foundation, but are you equally offended by laws made based on inaccurate, or worse, dishonest science?

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Old 01-16-2013, 19:22   #73
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It's clear that you're offended by the Theist pushing morality without a scientific foundation, but are you equally offended by laws based on inaccurate, or worse, dishonest science?
Yes. For instance, I am not a proponent of mandated carbon sequestration based on the assumption that global warming is caused by men. The earth is warming, that much is clear. That it is man made is far from certain and only constitutes a loose statistical correlation at best.
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Old 01-16-2013, 19:25   #74
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are you equally offended by laws made based on inaccurate, or worse, dishonest science?
I'm not Gecko, but I'm not sure I understand your question. Can you give an example of the laws you're talking about?
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Old 01-16-2013, 19:26   #75
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Did I say that the issue was direct proselytizing? No, I did not. I was clearly referring to theist efforts to pass laws that would restrict everyone to their narrow belief of what their mythical deity mandates (whether the public shares that view of morality or not).

Are you going to seriously tell me that you are completely unaware of the national debates regarding key issues such as stem cell research, gay marriage and abortion? I find that difficult to believe. Rather, I think that you understood my point completely and chose instead to mischaracterize it such that it would be easier to counter (i.e. you built another strawman).
Additionally, there are television channels devoted to proselytizing various religions. My local paper had a daily religion section for a while; it's now restricted to Sundays. I am regularly approached while waiting for my public transportation with proselytizers; sometimes they knock on my door at home.

I'm not aware of any directly corresponding proselytizing from the atheist camp. I've never seen an explicitly atheist broadcast television show that I can recall. I've never had random atheists come to my house to proselytize. I know there's the occasional "Good Without God" billboard, but I've never seen one in person.

And it appears to me that the majority of the time when atheists are heard from here, it's in response to something a theist has posted. That may be a consequence of the ratio, though.
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Old 01-16-2013, 19:27   #76
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To be completely fair, how many people have you ever met that tried to convince you how much better your life would be if you simply believed in unicorns and lived your life under their divine guidance?




Yes, when someone is that passionate about convincing you of their belief, even though your lack of belief could never impact them, I certainly question their motives.



I'm with you 100% on this last bit. Theists and atheists alike, there are good and bad, annoying and easy to get along with, in every group.
Nailed it, great post.


CavDoc does not seem to want to accept that in regards to the bold.



Theist don't bother him, only Atheist on GTRI.
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Old 01-16-2013, 19:39   #77
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Did I say that the issue was direct proselytizing? No, I did not. I was clearly referring to theist efforts to pass laws that would restrict everyone to their narrow belief of what their mythical deity mandates (whether the public shares that view of morality or not).

Are you going to seriously tell me that you are completely unaware of the national debates regarding key issues such as stem cell research, gay marriage and abortion? I find that difficult to believe. Rather, I think that you understood my point completely and chose instead to mischaracterize it such that it would be easier to counter (i.e. you built another strawman).
You just described CavDoc's MO.
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Old 01-16-2013, 19:46   #78
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Additionally, there are television channels devoted to proselytizing various religions. My local paper had a daily religion section for a while; it's now restricted to Sundays. I am regularly approached while waiting for my public transportation with proselytizers; sometimes they knock on my door at home.
Although mildly annoying, I don't have a problem with any of the above. As long as (in the last case) they don't return to my home when politely asked not to. That is all constitutionally protected free speech. They should be allowed to be publicly foolish if they want to be, they just shouldn't be allowed to enact foolish (sometimes dangerous and unjust) laws based on their religion.
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Old 01-16-2013, 19:58   #79
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I am an atheist. I don't believe any form of deity ever existed. I have not looked for god(s) behind the moon, inside the Oval Office, on Jupiter and there are infinite other places I have not checked for the presence of a divine spook.

Having not looked and listened in these various locations does not lead me to believe there is anything like a reasonable possibility that Yahweh, Loki, Wotan, Vishnu or any of the myriad other alleged deites exist anywhere based on observable reality. I also disbelieve that werewolves, vampires, skinwalkers or chupacabras exist.

Agnostic to me suggests acceptance of a reasonable possibility of the existence of a being that can build and populate the earth in 6 days, give donkeys the gift of using human language and do any of the fantastic feats attributed to such beings. I do not consider the gullibility required to seriously believe such fantastic claims to be a reasonable basis for making decisions that will affect my life or the lives of others. For that reason I consider myself atheist and do not bother with the gnostic/agnostic prefix that some other people consider important to attach to the subject of belief/non belief.
Only because I see it as reasonably possible..... let me explain how I got there.

I'm almost certain that not every letter in any religious text is perfectly correct. Most of them were handed down by verbal stories long before the written word, and translated from other languages into current languages.

I may have told this story once or ten times. But I was at a conference once, and a British lady was there, a rather attractive one. We were all setting around, drinking bit and laughing a lot. It was getting late, and she started off with "Hey didn't I see you on my floor just a couple of rooms down from mine". I said yes, I believe you did. She said, "Will you come by and knock me up in the morning". At which time those that were still breathing at the table were sucking in large volumes of air. I deftly said something like " Ujjjj uhhhh guwhat??!!" She said "come knock on my door in the morning to wake me up". She was mortified when one of the other ladies informed her what "Knock up" meant in American English.

The moral of the story is that even similar languages, aren't always the same.

So, understanding that humans may not be 100% accurate, but also understanding that science is a wonderful tool that has shown us many wonders. Many that are almost beyond comprehension (otherwise the global theory of relativity and life would be available on amazon today).

Life is truly complex. Complex enough to at least open the possibility, that there may have been a plan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=yAbMHlXJryM


The odds that cellular life would spontaneously occur, has to be less than the probability that I will win the lottery next week, If I bothered to buy a ticket.

So, I believe it's possible that a deity may have existed, or not.

No big. My belief doesn't hurt the theist or the atheist. You'd find that hard to believe from some of the reactions I've received. Almost hostile, in a religious sort of way. Just watch.

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Old 01-16-2013, 20:07   #80
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Did I say that the issue was direct proselytizing? No, I did not. I was clearly referring to theist efforts to pass laws that would restrict everyone to their narrow belief of what their mythical deity mandates (whether the public shares that view of morality or not).

Are you going to seriously tell me that you are completely unaware of the national debates regarding key issues such as stem cell research, gay marriage and abortion? I find that difficult to believe. Rather, I think that you understood my point completely and chose instead to mischaracterize it such that it would be easier to counter (i.e. you built another strawman).
I'm sensing more selective hypersensitivity. It's becoming rather common, in a tiresome sort of way.

Stem cell: Not banned. Federal funding was withheld for a few years, not for the last several.

Gay Marriage: Has not existed before, is a relatively new concept, likely a hail mary (pun intended) that would be best accomplished by going for "Civil Unions" with all the benefits now, then add "marriage" in 10 years when no one gives a crap.

Abortion on demand is the law of the land. Morning after pills are freely available.

You're displaying a persecution complex that is not founded in reality. Look around you. Duh. You are living in one of the most religiously free countries in the world. I'm not sure where your persecution complex originates, but I'm sure it is a dark place that you don't want to reveal.



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