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Old 01-16-2013, 15:42   #1
PhotoFeller
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Why do Democrats want our guns?

The anti-gun vs. pro-gun debate closely follows party lines, with some exceptions where the politician crosses over to satisfy his constituents in a very red or very blue state. Basically, the Dems want to take our guns while the Repubs want us to keep them.

Why does this philosophical divide exist? Is it because Dems want the tentacles of government to reach deeper into our lives; do they want us to be more dependent on government for personal/family/property protection? Is it because Repubs shun over-reaching government, and they want us to retain self sufficiency for protecting all that we hold dear?

Is there a deeper, darker motive behind Democrats wanting our firearms? Are there secret, sinister reasons for chipping away at 2A that have to do with moving our society towards total dependence on government...socialism or worse?

Much is said here at GT about government (Progressives) wanting our firearms, but the reasons for concern aren't clear to me. What drives their agenda doggedly towards more regulation, creeping towards gun registration and, ultimately, confiscation?

We know the worst-case scenario has happened in other countries, but why would it happen in the USA at the hands of Democrats?

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 01-17-2013 at 02:26..
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Old 01-16-2013, 15:53   #2
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Constitution vs Manifesto. Simple
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Old 01-16-2013, 15:56   #3
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Cloward-Piven strategy does not work if the populace is armed.
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Old 01-16-2013, 15:58   #4
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Gun control is probably the main vehicle that they are using. Progressives hate individualism. They hate that people can be individuals. Progressives wasn't us to be nothing more than sheep with no identity and completely dependent on the government for everything(health care,safety, etc).

In order to achieve this utopian goal we must be stripped of all of our individual rights. Our founders recognized the greatness of being an individual, and being able to make our own choices about what is best for our own lives.

If you want to believe in God, that's great. If you want to be an agnostic, that's great as well. That's what makes freedom so great. I don't care what you believe one way or the other. Once we have started the slide of being able to issue an eo to change our constitution, we are done as a republic. Then what keeps them from changing the 1st amendment or the 4th amendment.

If we are disarmed, then we are nothing more than sheep, eating totally out of the governments hand. The 2nd amendment was written to give us a way to keep a tyrant government in check. Sadly, many are content to let that amendment be gutted. Wonder what they will say when the 1st amendment is gutted?
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Old 01-16-2013, 16:01   #5
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Originally Posted by PocketProtector View Post
Constitution vs Manifesto. Simple
Thanks, but me thinks its not so simple. Where is the "manifesto" and who authored it? What does it say?

The grand plot that leads to us taking to the streets to preserve our rights ("SHTF" scenario) is a well guarded secret or a myth that Republicans either don't know about or aren't talking about.
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Old 01-16-2013, 16:12   #6
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Gun control is probably the main vehicle that they are using. Progressives hate individualism. They hate that people can be individuals. Progressives wasn't us to be nothing more than sheep with no identity and completely dependent on the government for everything(health care,safety, etc).

In order to achieve this utopian goal we must be stripped of all of our individual rights. Our founders recognized the greatness of being an individual, and being able to make our own choices about what is best for our own lives.

If you want to believe in God, that's great. If you want to be an agnostic, that's great as well. That's what makes freedom so great. I don't care what you believe one way or the other. Once we have started the slide of being able to issue an eo to change our constitution, we are done as a republic. Then what keeps them from changing the 1st amendment or the 4th amendment.

If we are disarmed, then we are nothing more than sheep, eating totally out of the governments hand. The 2nd amendment was written to give us a way to keep a tyrant government in check. Sadly, many are content to let that amendment be gutted. Wonder what they will say when the 1st amendment is gutted?
The Progressive "utopian goal" is one aspect of popular lore that mystifies me. How is it that Republican leaders aren't aware of such a goal; if they know it, why wouldn't they exploit such an unsettling objective? Are Repubs in on the scheme? Are high-powered private citizens pulling the strings of both parties?

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 01-17-2013 at 02:28..
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Old 01-16-2013, 16:26   #7
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Cloward-Piven strategy does not work if the populace is armed.
Have Progressives in federal government leadership officially embraced the Cloward-Piven theory as the way of the future under Democrat control? Where are the Repubs in all of this? Where is the media in all of this?
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Old 01-16-2013, 16:32   #8
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Guns are the reason bad things happen. Just ask them
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Old 01-16-2013, 16:33   #9
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The Progressive "utopian goal" is one aspect of popular lore that mystifies me. How is it that Republican leaders aren't aware of such a goal; if they know it, why wouldn't they exploit such an unsettling circumstance? Are Repubs in on the scheme? Are high-powered private citizens pulling the strings of both parties?

There are plenty of repub's who are just as guilty of this utopian dream. I will never argue that repub's hold all of the answers and aren't big govt guys. There are a lot of them that are.

The last two pres.elections I have voted in I have held my nose when I voted.

The repub's and democrats are a lot closer than what we want to think that they are. Just a few issues they differ on. Not conservatives, I'm talking about the establishment republicans(the ones that ran the past two pres elections)
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Old 01-16-2013, 16:35   #10
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This is the party that will refer to magazines as "clips" and giggles at all the "talking heads" that CONSTANTLY refer to their party as the DEMOCRA-TIC PARTY!What the HELL is "DEMOCRATIC" about the DEMOCRAT PARTY?!!!
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Old 01-16-2013, 16:48   #11
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I've known a lot of Democrats who just seem to have a visceral hatred for gun owners and, in some cases, the guns themselves. They look down their noses at gun owners as if we're all violent Neanderthals, which is part of their elitist, so-called "intellectual superiority".
One guy who works for me was praising Obama just prior to the election but owns a number of "assault weapons". Sometimes Democrats just seem ... well ... how do I put this delicately ... "not very bright"?
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Old 01-16-2013, 16:55   #12
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Gun control is probably the main vehicle that they are using. Progressives hate individualism. They hate that people can be individuals. Progressives wasn't us to be nothing more than sheep with no identity and completely dependent on the government for everything(health care,safety, etc).
?
I understand what you mean in the context which you are using it. I agree with that.

However, I think the whole YOU ARE SPECIAL thing with participation trophies and individualism pampering isnt doing much for making strong Americans. Being recognized as an individual if you have contributed something useful and positive, yes. Just not having a pulse, like it is becoming now.


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Old 01-16-2013, 17:02   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLVOL View Post
Gun control is probably the main vehicle that they are using. Progressives hate individualism. They hate that people can be individuals. Progressives wasn't us to be nothing more than sheep with no identity and completely dependent on the government for everything(health care,safety, etc).

In order to achieve this utopian goal we must be stripped of all of our individual rights. Our founders recognized the greatness of being an individual, and being able to make our own choices about what is best for our own lives.

If you want to believe in God, that's great. If you want to be an agnostic, that's great as well. That's what makes freedom so great. I don't care what you believe one way or the other. Once we have started the slide of being able to issue an eo to change our constitution, we are done as a republic. Then what keeps them from changing the 1st amendment or the 4th amendment.

If we are disarmed, then we are nothing more than sheep, eating totally out of the governments hand. The 2nd amendment was written to give us a way to keep a tyrant government in check. Sadly, many are content to let that amendment be gutted. Wonder what they will say when the 1st amendment is gutted?

No one will hardly notice because it will all be gov. propoganda that you get fed.

It is not far from that anyway. Look at this latest push for gun grabbing. The liberal media is only putting out their version of the facts and it looks like they go hand-in-hand with the kings wishes.

Why does it seem most all media is libtards? Where is the public stated view from the other side?
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Old 01-16-2013, 17:13   #14
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I understand what you mean in the context which you are using it. I agree with that.

However, I think the whole YOU ARE SPECIAL thing with participation trophies and individualism pampering isnt doing much for making strong Americans. Being recognized as an individual if you have contributed something useful and positive, yes. Just not having a pulse, like it is becoming now.


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Yeah I don't mean the whole trophies for everyone. What makes our freedoms(which we are losing) is that we are free to be ourselves. We don't have to be like the masses. We should be free to pursue what we want, not what we are told.

Last edited by ALLVOL; 01-16-2013 at 17:15..
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Old 01-16-2013, 17:19   #15
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COMMUNISM!!! Here are the 10 planks of communism from the communist manifesto.

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc...).
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.
6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
Americans call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
Americans call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture… Thus read "controlled or subsidized" rather than "owned"… This is easily seen in these as well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
Americans call it Minimum Wage and slave labor like dealing with our Most Favored Nation trade partner; i.e. Communist China. We see it in practice via the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
Americans call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. These provide for forced relocations and forced sterilization programs, like in China. 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
Americans are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, but are actually "government force-tax-funded schools " Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share". WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested !! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. ... America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC ... Teaching ourselves and others how to "fish" to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be "needy"... Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.
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Old 01-16-2013, 17:40   #16
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I don't thinks its about a liberal utopian ideal, it's far more sinister than that. The liberals in Washington want to own / control us and they can't enslave us as long as we can take up arms to defeat them. Once we are disarmed they will start rolling in the tanks and destroy anyone who opposes them.
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Old 01-16-2013, 18:19   #17
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I don't thinks its about a liberal utopian ideal, it's far more sinister than that. The liberals in Washington want to own / control us and they can't enslave us as long as we can take up arms to defeat them. Once we are disarmed they will start rolling in the tanks and destroy anyone who opposes them.
Again, this must be one of the best kept secrets in the world!

Why aren't Repubs shouting warnings about this threat from the roof tops! Elections could be a slam dunk if this truth became the Republican platform centerpiece.

Why aren't Constitutional scholars writing books about the plan
to dismantle democracy?

Why aren't mega-wealthy business people scrambling to expose this strategy. They are HUGE stakeholders in our capitalistic economy.

I don't get it.
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Old 01-16-2013, 18:28   #18
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Benji- The Communist bullet points are interesting, but its impossible for me to believe that Obama, Reid and Pelosi are intentionally headed towards dismantling our political and economic systems. Major foreign leaders would be all over that scheme because the world depends on our markets, our currency, our military might for peace, our powerful example of democratic government. Many don't like us, but they depend on us.
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Old 01-16-2013, 18:31   #19
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Benji- The Communist bullet points are interesting, but its impossible for me to believe that Obama, Reid and Pelosi are intentionally headed towards dismantling our political and economic systems. Major foreign leaders would be all over that scheme because the world depends on our markets, our currency, our military might for peace, our powerful example of democratic government. Many don't like us, but they depend on us.
You just need to step back and take an objective look. If after doing this you can't see it as plain as day then you are simply lost and hopeless.
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Old 01-16-2013, 18:33   #20
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Simplest theory:
Anti-gun politicians get money from anti-gun groups for re-election.

Anti-gun people hate guns because anti-gun politicians tell them to, and nobody tells them otherwise.


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