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Old 01-10-2013, 12:06   #241
syntaxerrorsix
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So, if as a law enforcement officer, I think that the law against intercepting wireless cell phone transmissions (Title III), which are passing right through my body, and which I feel the Constitution puts these conversations in my lawful possession, is unconstiutional, it is okay for me to start listening in on these conversations already in my possession?

Or, is this law constitutional because you feel it is, regardless of what I feel?
You continue to miss the point, but I suppose if you can listen to phone transmission as they enter your body more power to you.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:14   #242
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You continue to miss the point, but I suppose if you can listen to phone transmission as they enter your body more power to you.
So, you're okay with me violating Title III and listening to your phone calls because I think the federal law against that is unconstitutional?
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:27   #243
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So, you're okay with me violating Title III and listening to your phone calls because I think the federal law against that is unconstitutional?
This is the point you miss. The US Government doesn't constitutionally own the airways just as the FCC isn't a constitutional agency.

My phone call on my cell phone bounced of Verizon towers should be the private property of the company that funds it's transmission and myself. Therefore it would be our responsibility to reliably secure communications or to accept the fact that they could be intercepted.

Two things are going on here, either concepts discussed here are too advanced for you or you are being deliberately obtuse.

If you're so comfortable in your false construct of how things currently work despite how they are supposed to work fine.

You are part of the problem, you and folks like you are responsible for the massive over reach of federal powers because you accept them at face value and don't questions the motive or legality of it.

You're a good slave.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:34   #244
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syntaxerrorsix, let's say a guy with no particular legal training or experience decided that he could understand the law better than the entire body of American lawyers going back to the beginning of the country and he approached that as if it was silly for anyone to doubt he was the greater authority. Let's say that was you, for example. Would he expect people to take him seriously?

I would expect people to regard him as a crackpot or conspiracy nut and dismiss what he has to say.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:37   #245
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My phone call on my cell phone bounced of Verizon towers should be the private property of the company that funds it's transmission and myself.
And, by what authority do you send your transmissions through my body? What if I think it is a violation of my rights?

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Two things are going on here, either concepts discussed here are too advanced for you or you are being deliberately obtuse.
I got a 3.5 in Federal Jurisdiction and Consitutional Law I and a 3.0 in Con Law II in law school.

How did you do?
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:41   #246
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syntaxerrorsix, let's say a guy with no particular legal training or experience decided that he could understand the law better than the entire body of American lawyers going back to the beginning of the country and he approached that as if it was silly for anyone to doubt he was the greater authority. Let's say that was you, for example. Would he expect people to take him seriously?

I would expect people to regard him as a crackpot or conspiracy nut and dismiss what he has to say.
You mean the people with a financial interest in scrambling things up?

It doesn't take a lawyer to read the founding documents or the founders writings about them. It isn't some special code that only lawyers can possibly understand. Lets be honest, becoming a lawyer is about one of the most common things a person can do today.

The highest lawyer in the land just effectively re-wrote a law before him to find it constitutional and did it for political purposes. Consider me unimpressed.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:41   #247
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syntaxerrorsix, let's say a guy with no particular legal training or experience decided that he could understand the law better than the entire body of American lawyers going back to the beginning of the country and he approached that as if it was silly for anyone to doubt he was the greater authority. Let's say that was you, for example. Would he expect people to take him seriously?

I would expect people to regard him as a crackpot or conspiracy nut and dismiss what he has to say.
Don't take me seriously, or my links from doctors and lawyers and institutes dedicated to preserving liberty. Just sit back and complain about how the your rights are violated by the government and the people in charge of it. Do nothing useful.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:43   #248
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syntaxerrorsix, let's say a guy with no particular legal training or experience decided that he could understand the law better than the entire body of American lawyers going back to the beginning of the country and he approached that as if it was silly for anyone to doubt he was the greater authority. Let's say that was you, for example. Would he expect people to take him seriously?

I would expect people to regard him as a crackpot or conspiracy nut and dismiss what he has to say.
Although he does make a great example.

Perpetually, but ineffectually, angry.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:43   #249
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And, by what authority do you send your transmissions through my body? What if I think it is a violation of my rights?
The same authority that allows you to breath my exhale. Just as damaging but alas uncontrollable.


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I got a 3.5 in Federal Jurisdiction and Consitutional Law I and a 3.0 in Con Law II in law school.

How did you do?
And in all that somehow you missed the part about judicial review and it's controversy?

Get your money back.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:46   #250
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And in all that somehow you missed the part about judicial review and it's controversy?
Yeah, I did. But, we didn't have the internet back then, so none of us knew as much about the law as people do now.

(Thanks to the internet, I am an expert in seventeen different fields that I had no formal training in.)
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Old 01-10-2013, 13:54   #251
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Well,

A. you are wrong - the constitution is federal law
Wrong. Sharkey7 said its just a framework. See above
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Old 01-10-2013, 13:57   #252
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Because at least the supreme court has to decide what the constitution means and, no matter what your constitution says, somebody has to do that.

The majority? They elected Obama and can barely sign their names on their welfare checks. I'd rather go with the courts having too much power than "the people." We talk a lot about "the people" as if they are some wise and noble group. Maybe we should stop and think about that.
Good Lord, agreed on the majority

My question was sarcastic btw
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Old 01-10-2013, 14:00   #253
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All of the parts. That is the nature of constitutions and laws. Cases are written in detail to account for things that have already happened. Laws are written generally, to try to account for future possibilities. The higher the levle, the more general it is - the constitution being the highest level of all and being written appropriately for that level. In fact, nobody has managed to write one on par since, for the very reasons argued about here - because they try and make it more clear and specific, which leads to unforseen future problems. We only have forseeable future whiners who don't get what they want.
I suppose if we give enough lawyers enough time we can make the Constitution say whatever it needs to say.

No one suggested that the Constitution is supposed to represent the entire body of federal law. However it does tell the congress very specifically what it can write laws about.

.......unless of course the court decides that "shall not be infringed" actually means "subject to whatever regulations the Congress feels is reasonable."
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:54   #254
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While the libertarian in me believes people should be free to destroy themselves, I agree with Series1811 here.

The U.S. Government has the full Constitutional authority to regulate the import of products into the country. I don't think an influx of foreign cocaine is good for our society and it is within the purview of the feds to control the importation. If that determination is made it should be done with a degree of resolution that will make it successful, or not done at all. The U.S. government is powerful enough to stop it if desired.

Likewise, the federal government should protect U.S. methamphetamine manufacturers from unfair trade practices of the Mexican cartels.
Totally agree as far as stopping the drug trade.

As an overview, the CIA's network maintains the vast majority of drugs flowing (e.g., heroin from Afghanistan) into the united States. If not for their network, the WOD (which is a misnomer but that point aside) would have been won decades ago, but in reality, it's not a war on drugs, it is a war against the American People and the ability for them to defend themselves against a shadow government gone rogue years ago.

However, without the WOD, things like armed surveillance drones flying over our American cities and the militarization of our Police forces and 'Cop Shops' around America would not have been possible. While the threat from terrorists/terrorism is also being blamed and used an an excuse for all the hardware currently being set up against American citizens here in the US, certainly the WOD is being promoted as a just cause for such constitutionally illegal hardware and technologies as well.

Here in America, the only drug dealers being arrested or having their businesses interdicted are the ones that are not within the CIA's and shadow government's "approved" network of distribution. The drug trade will NEVER stop or be stopped due to its NOW vital importance to the American economy.

NAFTA, the free trade agreement, and the forcing of HONEST and much valued manufacturing businesses overseas, which all three have their conceptual genesis occurring at least no later than during reagan's second term, are now part and parcel to tactile movement of drugs over our national borders and subsequent distribution throughout the US. The ongoing laundering of the drug money, generated through the WOD, and the downfall of our American economy from one of almost a 100%, in-house manufacturing economy to that of a predominately service economy is resultant of the push to bankrupt the Middle Class.

Is the WOD, in actual application, really an oxymoron? Yes.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:06   #255
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Totally agree as far as stopping the drug trade.

As an overview, the CIA's network maintains the vast majority of drugs flowing (e.g., heroin from Afghanistan) into the united States. If not for their network, the WOD (which is a misnomer but that point aside) would have been won decades ago, but in reality, it's not a war on drugs, it is a war against the American People and the ability for them to defend themselves against a shadow government gone rogue years ago.

However, without the WOD, things like armed surveillance drones flying over our American cities and the militarization of our Police forces and 'Cop Shops' around America would not have been possible. While the threat from terrorists/terrorism is also being blamed and used an an excuse for all the hardware currently being set up against American citizens here in the US, certainly the WOD is being promoted as a just cause for such constitutionally illegal hardware and technologies as well.

Here in America, the only drug dealers being arrested or having their businesses interdicted are the ones that are not within the CIA's and shadow government's "approved" network of distribution. The drug trade will NEVER stop or be stopped due to its NOW vital importance to the American economy.

NAFTA, the free trade agreement, and the forcing of HONEST and much valued manufacturing businesses overseas, which all three have their conceptual genesis occurring at least no later than during reagan's second term, are now part and parcel to tactile movement of drugs over our national borders and subsequent distribution throughout the US. The ongoing laundering of the drug money, generated through the WOD, and the downfall of our American economy from one of almost a 100%, in-house manufacturing economy to that of a predominately service economy is resultant of the push to bankrupt the Middle Class.

Is the WOD, in actual application, really an oxymoron? Yes.
People don't know the half of it.

The typical drug user, has no idea of the manipulations, by cartels and our government, and other governments, to put that drug into his hands.

Drug trafficking, truly is global in its politics, with the only constant being, that there has to be somebody, somewhere, willing to put s*** into his body, for it to work.

We have record numbers of people willing to do that very thing, so it's going to be with us for a while.
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Old 01-12-2013, 16:11   #256
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People don't know the half of it.

The typical drug user, has no idea of the manipulations, by cartels and our government, and other governments, to put that drug into his hands.

Drug trafficking, truly is global in its politics, with the only constant being, that there has to be somebody, somewhere, willing to put s*** into his body, for it to work.

We have record numbers of people willing to do that very thing, so it's going to be with us for a while.
The overall drug addiction rate for all drugs has stayed roughly level since the war on drugs began.

There has always been and will always be a certain number of people who will become addicted.

It's human nature.


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Old 01-13-2013, 09:20   #257
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The overall drug addiction rate for all drugs has stayed roughly level since the war on drugs began.



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For an example, just of how much cocaine use has increased since the late sixties, read Blow, by George Jung. It is a factually accurate reporting of how much cocaine importation increased, just in the seventies.

In the 90's, cocaine importation leveled off, simply because the cartels had saturated the market with cocaine and it was literally impossible to cultivate new cocaine users.

So, the cartels did what any smart businessmen would do. They expanded into heroin and methamphetamine (they were already heavily into marijuana production and importation, and still are). They were even giving heroin away in the mid 90's, to their distributors, to try and develop markets for it.

But, in the end, you have to have the user, willing to buy and ingest the stuff into his or her body, or the whole system collapses. And, we do have those people, in huge numbers.
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Old 01-14-2013, 19:19   #258
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... But, in the end, you have to have the user, willing to buy and ingest the stuff into his or her body, or the whole system collapses. And, we do have those people, in huge numbers.
Perfectly true. From now on I will keep that in mind when writing on/about this topic. Thanks for pointing that out. (Sometimes I miss the obvious.)
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:56   #259
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Perfectly true. From now on I will keep that in mind when writing on/about this topic. Thanks for pointing that out. (Sometimes I miss the obvious.)
You're not the only one.
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