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Old 01-14-2013, 09:03   #126
DanaT
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
B
PTSD?
Normal civilians dont get that so who cares?
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:13   #127
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I quote the acting commander of the 101st airborn division at Bastogne, "NUTS"
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:33   #128
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I quote the acting commander of the 101st airborn division at Bastogne, "NUTS"
General Anthony McAuliffe. Those were tough men.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:37   #129
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Normal civilians dont get that so who cares?
Of course. What was I thinking

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Old 01-14-2013, 09:51   #130
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They cut deals to have casinos built on their lands and reap the money from White Eyes?
Yeah, but it's the 100 years of waiting first that really sucks. Your great grandkids will have AWESOME guns. . . or a casino. I forget.

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Normal civilians dont get that so who cares?
Define normal.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:56   #131
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Normal civilians dont get that so who cares?
PTSD is not limited to war vets. I also find it highly insulting that you would be ok with thousands of war vets (aka my friends) being barred from owning firearms because of a PTSD diagnosis.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:02   #132
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I can see the libs getting a law passed that restricts face to face private gun sales with no background checks. That is the method a criminal or mentally ill person will go logically and both sides know it.

How will they enforce it? I have no idea???

It will most likely just end up being part of the information noted after a shooting. "Breaking news-Shooter kills 3, gun used was bought illegally". The law will only effect us law abidding citizens and do nothing to stop folks who ignore the new law and criminals.

Last edited by mixflip; 01-14-2013 at 10:04..
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:04   #133
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PTSD is not limited to war vets. I also find it highly insulting that you would be ok with thousands of war vets (aka my friends) being barred from owning firearms because of a PTSD diagnosis.
He's being sarcastic. He's on your side
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:04   #134
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I will leave this here about PTSD....

Sen. Tom Coburn, Oklahoma Republican, wants veterans who have been deemed “mentally incompetent” to have their cases adjudicated by a judge — rather than the Department of Veterans Affairs, as happens currently — and argued that veterans who simply cannot support themselves financially are needlessly given the label and, as such, cannot buy or possess firearms.

Coburn amendment #3109 proposed "to protect the Second amendment rights of veterans" by revising Chapter 55 of title 38, United States Code, Sec. 5503.

In any case arising out of the administration by the Secretary of laws and benefits under this title, a person who is mentally incapacitated, deemed mentally incompetent, or experiencing an extended loss of consciousness shall not be considered adjudicated as a mental defective under subsection (d)(4) or (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18 without the order or finding of a judge, magistrate, or other judicial authority of competent jurisdiction that such person is a danger to himself or herself or others.

“We’re not asking for anything big,” Coburn explained on the Senate floor Thursday. “We’re just saying that if you’re going to take away the Second Amendment rights -- they ought to have it adjudicated, rather than mandated by someone who’s unqualified to state that they should lose their rights.”

However, as soon as New York Democrat Sen. Charles E. Schumer discovered that Coburn’s pitch was part of a bundle of amendments tucked into the NDAA, he quickly objected.

“I love our veterans,” Schumer prefaced his opinion. “I vote for them all the time, they defend us.”

Despite his professions of “love” for “our veterans,” Schumer then equated military veterans with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder to convicted criminals.

But if you are mentally ill, whether you’re a veteran or not, just like if you’re a felon, if you’re a veteran or not, and you have been judged to be mentally infirm, you should not have a gun.

Against Schumer’s claim that he votes for them “all the time,” according to BradyCampaign.org, Schumer was one of three Democrats who “championed” the National Instant Check System Improvement Act of 2007. While the law “strengthens the Brady Law’s National Instant Check System (NICS)” and makes it “harder for criminals and other dangerous people to buy firearms,” it also strips veterans being treated for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder of their Second Amendment rights.

“As the first new federal gun control law in more than a decade,” the website explains, “it also helps lay the groundwork to expand Brady background checks to all gun sales.”

According to Schumer’s website, “writing and helping” to “pass” the Brady Bill is among what he considers to be his greatest “accomplishments” as a senator.

When a veteran is declared incompetent, the Veterans Administration (VA) appoints fiduciaries, often family members, to manage their pensions and disability benefits. Because of Schumer’s NICS Improvement Act of 2007, the VA also automatically enters the names of those veterans in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which prohibits them from buying or owning firearms.

Coburn sought to amend Chapter 55 of title 38, United States Code to prohibit the VA from entering those names into the system.

North Carolina Republican Sen. Richard Burr proposed similar legislation -- the Veterans Second Amendment Protection Act – in Oct. 2011.

“All I am saying,” Coburn said during Thursday’s Senate debate, “is let them at least have their day in court if you are going to take away a fundamental right given under the Constitution.”

“We’re talking about people who have some form of disability to the extent that they’re unable to manage their own affairs,” said Dan Gross, president of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. “If you’re deemed unable to handle your own affairs, that’s likely to constitute a high percentage of people who are dangerously mentally ill.”


Summary
A query of VHA health care utilization databases using the May 2012 DMDC roster
yielded a total of 239,174 OEF/OIF/OND Veterans coded with PTSD at a VAMC and
51,173 Veterans who received Vet Center service for PTSD. Of these, 205,647 were seen
only at a VAMC; 17,646 only at a Vet Center; and 33,527 were seen at both facilities. In
summary, based on the electronic patient records available through June 30, 2012, a
grand total of 256,820 OEF/OIF/OND Veterans were seen for potential PTSD at VHA
facilities following their return from Iraq or Afghanistan.

Last edited by warhog; 01-14-2013 at 10:07..
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:30   #135
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
He's being sarcastic. He's on your side
Hair trigger...

:slowly backs away:
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:37   #136
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Originally Posted by RonS View Post
Compromise on any gun control measure is like compromising with cancer cells.

We know where this leads.

They attack on a broad front, find something we are willing to compromise on, take it, wait and do it again and again, for decades if necessary until they get everything they want, which is of course the total disarmament of the people.

We will end up like the British, crime ridden, helpless and told constantly to fear everything but that our hard working government protectors are doing everything possible to protect us, they just need us to give up a few more liberties and it will all be better.
Pretty much what I have been saying as well. No more compromises, not more ground to be lost. Enough with violating the 2nd Amendment.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:03   #137
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I'm for background checks so long as they are fast and cheap.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:05   #138
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Originally Posted by Glock20 10mm View Post
Pretty much what I have been saying as well. No more compromises, not more ground to be lost. Enough with violating the 2nd Amendment.
We've already compromised enough.
Those who advocate compromising a little more are the same as the frog in the pot of water. They've already turned the heat up a significant amount... any more "compromises" and the water will start boiling...
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:14   #139
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I'm for background checks so long as they are fast and cheap.
I'm for regulating people's lives less, not more.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:21   #140
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There won't be any buyers remorse here. Picked up a couple hi cap glock and pmags. Also picked up a Saiga 12 and a Scar 16. Paid less than retail for both. The panic just gave me the kick in the butt to actually spend the cash on stuff I wanted anyway.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:48   #141
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I'm for background checks so long as they are fast and cheap.
Here's hoping you never get legislated out.

They want universal checks for a reason and it ain't safety.

It gives them control. Forces all gun sales through their pipeline.


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Old 01-14-2013, 11:53   #142
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...-control-laws/
I'm confused on how much he thinks he can do with the executive order.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:55   #143
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Here's hoping you never get legislated out.

They want universal checks for a reason and it ain't safety.

It gives them control. Forces all gun sales through their pipeline.


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You are confused.

I have heard from sources on GT, that are even more correct about everything than god himself, that they are not coming for my guns; they are only coming from other people's guns who are undesirable elements of society. I am not part of that element of society.
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Last edited by DanaT; 01-14-2013 at 11:55..
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:09   #144
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Originally Posted by warhog View Post
I will leave this here about PTSD....

Sen. Tom Coburn, Oklahoma Republican, wants veterans who have been deemed “mentally incompetent” to have their cases adjudicated by a judge — rather than the Department of Veterans Affairs, as happens currently — and argued that veterans who simply cannot support themselves financially are needlessly given the label and, as such, cannot buy or possess firearms.

Coburn amendment #3109 proposed "to protect the Second amendment rights of veterans" by revising Chapter 55 of title 38, United States Code, Sec. 5503.

In any case arising out of the administration by the Secretary of laws and benefits under this title, a person who is mentally incapacitated, deemed mentally incompetent, or experiencing an extended loss of consciousness shall not be considered adjudicated as a mental defective under subsection (d)(4) or (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18 without the order or finding of a judge, magistrate, or other judicial authority of competent jurisdiction that such person is a danger to himself or herself or others.

“We’re not asking for anything big,” Coburn explained on the Senate floor Thursday. “We’re just saying that if you’re going to take away the Second Amendment rights -- they ought to have it adjudicated, rather than mandated by someone who’s unqualified to state that they should lose their rights.”

However, as soon as New York Democrat Sen. Charles E. Schumer discovered that Coburn’s pitch was part of a bundle of amendments tucked into the NDAA, he quickly objected.

“I love our veterans,” Schumer prefaced his opinion. “I vote for them all the time, they defend us.”

Despite his professions of “love” for “our veterans,” Schumer then equated military veterans with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder to convicted criminals.

But if you are mentally ill, whether you’re a veteran or not, just like if you’re a felon, if you’re a veteran or not, and you have been judged to be mentally infirm, you should not have a gun.

Against Schumer’s claim that he votes for them “all the time,” according to BradyCampaign.org, Schumer was one of three Democrats who “championed” the National Instant Check System Improvement Act of 2007. While the law “strengthens the Brady Law’s National Instant Check System (NICS)” and makes it “harder for criminals and other dangerous people to buy firearms,” it also strips veterans being treated for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder of their Second Amendment rights.

“As the first new federal gun control law in more than a decade,” the website explains, “it also helps lay the groundwork to expand Brady background checks to all gun sales.”

According to Schumer’s website, “writing and helping” to “pass” the Brady Bill is among what he considers to be his greatest “accomplishments” as a senator.

When a veteran is declared incompetent, the Veterans Administration (VA) appoints fiduciaries, often family members, to manage their pensions and disability benefits. Because of Schumer’s NICS Improvement Act of 2007, the VA also automatically enters the names of those veterans in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which prohibits them from buying or owning firearms.

Coburn sought to amend Chapter 55 of title 38, United States Code to prohibit the VA from entering those names into the system.

North Carolina Republican Sen. Richard Burr proposed similar legislation -- the Veterans Second Amendment Protection Act – in Oct. 2011.

“All I am saying,” Coburn said during Thursday’s Senate debate, “is let them at least have their day in court if you are going to take away a fundamental right given under the Constitution.”

“We’re talking about people who have some form of disability to the extent that they’re unable to manage their own affairs,” said Dan Gross, president of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. “If you’re deemed unable to handle your own affairs, that’s likely to constitute a high percentage of people who are dangerously mentally ill.”


Summary
A query of VHA health care utilization databases using the May 2012 DMDC roster
yielded a total of 239,174 OEF/OIF/OND Veterans coded with PTSD at a VAMC and
51,173 Veterans who received Vet Center service for PTSD. Of these, 205,647 were seen
only at a VAMC; 17,646 only at a Vet Center; and 33,527 were seen at both facilities. In
summary, based on the electronic patient records available through June 30, 2012, a
grand total of 256,820 OEF/OIF/OND Veterans were seen for potential PTSD at VHA
facilities following their return from Iraq or Afghanistan.
He is now my senator (Cole). I'm glad to hear this! I'm hoping OK will continue to move in the right direction regarding the 2A. We recently just got open carry, but it still requires the same license as concealed (now just referred to as a 'carry license'). Hopefully we'll keep electing the right officials, and get to constitutional carry.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:16   #145
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
You are confused.

I have heard from sources on GT, that are even more correct about everything than god himself, that they are not coming for my guns; they are only coming from other people's guns who are undesirable elements of society. I am not part of that element of society.
Thank goodness for Congress defining who is undesirable and keeping us safe.




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Old 01-14-2013, 12:20   #146
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This I would agree with is someone ends up on medication for mental health the doctor should report it to the FBI so they cannot buy a gun, what also needs to end is using a insanity plea to skirt the death penalty so people like the guy who shot up movie theater can get off using it. With all the planning he put into it with the booby traps and everything else, he is not insane, not completely anyway. Besides, whether your insane or not your still a menace to society. They should get the death penalty.
What bothers me is, if your just accused, not convicted mind you,of a domestic dispute you loose all your guns and gun buying privileges, but yet someone who is under the care of a mental health doctor can get all the guns they want. Our laws are messed up
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:24   #147
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This I would agree with is someone ends up on medication for mental health the doctor should report it to the FBI so they cannot buy a gun, what also needs to end is using a insanity plea to skirt the death penalty so people like the guy who shot up movie theater can get off using it. With all the planning he put into it with the booby traps and everything else, he is not insane, not completely anyway. Besides, whether your insane or not your still a menace to society. They should get the death penalty.
What do you think about HIPPA laws?

Maybe your doctor should report you to the govt if you have a VD because you could spread it? Your doctor should definitely call your place of employment as it is likely that you would use a toilet and could potentially infect someone. Probably, they should let you employer know about the viagra that you were prescribed because you are much likely to use it in committing a rape.

Come to think of it society would be much safer if all your personal medical records were published on the internet so if you have any questionable contagious issues, people are aware.
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:37   #148
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2nd. How do we know Joe isn't mentally ill? It used to be Joe needed to be judged mentally ill but as we have seen, there have been a lot of people not judged ill until after the fact. So, the way to keep the mentally ill from obtaining guns? Easy, if Joe isnt mentally ill, he will have no problem submitting to a govt psych check. Once the govt approved doctor clears him, he can then own a gun.
If your are referring to Biden, it didn't get the nickname "Crazy Uncle Joe" for nothing....
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Old 01-14-2013, 12:55   #149
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I sure hope you're right.

I managed to ride through this storm, keeping my ar-15 and 30 pmags I purchased well before this whole ordeal, was tempted to sell for profit, and take my chances, but I didn't feel the risk was worth the reward to me, for reasons I won't elaborate further (just my personal opinion, no logic to it worth explaining).

Ever since the sandyhook tragedy, I've just been buying 00 buckshot, since no one seems to be buying much of that in my neck of the woods.

I know what you mean, cabelas had stacks of 00 on sale that no one was buying, everyone seemed to be staring at the empty shelves that once stocked 223 and 9mm the last couple times I went there. Most looking for some kind of self defense/home defense ammo skip right over the buckshot, it's laughable but I'm glad the fudds haven't made 12g skyrocket. Yet. All it would take is one media moron screaming about the "devastating" wounds made by buckshot to change that.

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Old 01-14-2013, 12:57   #150
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Reports are that the Biden committee will announce tougher background checks to prevent guns from ending up in the hands of the mentally ill, a nationwide discussion on mental health, and school safety initiatives.
I wish, but even if Biden did that (not likely) the legislative branch is in a frenzy.
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