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Old 01-13-2013, 19:21   #76
Fear Night
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I hope you are right OP, but I disagree. I predict Biden will "recommend" everything you mentioned, but will also include the AWB and 10rd magazine limits.

Not that the two latter recommendations have any chance of passing Congress. He just has nothing to lose by including those in his talking points.
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:23   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangePwr9 View Post
Speaking of conspiracies and questionable activities of duly sworn LE officers, where's Hillary?
There are maybe 5 leading contenders for the 2016 dem nominations:

1. Hilldawg

2. Joe Biden

3. Corey Booker

4. Davel Patrick

5. NY Gov. Cumo

Basically, the last 2 weeks have taken Biden and Cumo out, completely.

Obama was able to downplay his anti-second amendment stance during the campaigns in 2008 and 2012 because he had rarely taken a public stance, one way or the other. His statements on gun control were mostly boilerplate.

But now Biden and Cumo cannot walk back their positions.m

Meaning Hilldawg can become Mrs. 2nd Ammendment in 2016.

Bill Clinton made a state about the AWB a few days ago.

Hilldawg gets to say "I don't agree with my husband on everything and I support the 2nd Ammendment." Now she's earned points with two demos; to women she's a strong career woman who won't play 2nd fiddle to her husband; to gun owners she's the "reasonable" candidate.

Does she support the 2nd Ammendment? Don't be silly. But that's politics.

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Old 01-13-2013, 19:27   #78
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...

Universal background checks..... This is the one they really want. There will be no compromise here. They want it and they are going to get it. It is backdoor registration because it will force a paper trail for every gun transfer going forward. Later they will find an excuse to push for centralizing all the data collected on the Form 4473. They want this for the future as a step towards disarming america. This will be part of the foundation laid down early that full registration will be built on.

There will be a couple of other things, better data sharing and collection for mental problems for example, but the meat of it is going to be the Universal background check.
They may or may not get the mag restriction, but if they don't you can bet they will bring it to a vote and use a vote against the bill to microtarget electioneering to paint those opposed as being in the pocket of the NRA and more concerned with keeping HIGH CAPACITY ASSAULT MAGAZINES available than protecting your children. There are voters who will be swayed by that.

I saw earlier someone post that we "could not expect to come out of this unscathed" and that we should accept background checks as the price of not having an assault weapons ban. To that I say WTF did any responsible gun owner do wrong! Accept nothing. Fight for every inch of ground. Write your elected officials. Join NRA or GOA. Make a donation if already a member. Talk to family and friends to see if you can get them involved.

And remember....

A FREE PEOPLE CAN BE DISARMED IN THE FACE OF TYRANNY ONLY ONE TIME.
Agreed, and when the above has been in effect for some time, anyone in possession of a gun not in the national database will be subjected to intense pressure and the presumption of guilt.

A very slippery slope indeed.
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:36   #79
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So, there will be another big push in the aftermarket to buy used guns. Because no tracking them.

Hate to say it. But, those of us who have pistols or CPL/CCW's are already on the list of having guns. If they want them. They know you have some. So, they will come with a warrent for firearms. Unless you can bury them in the yard two doors down. It won't help you at all if they are in your house.

At least that is my thought. I'm on the list , more then once.
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:48   #80
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Originally Posted by harlenm View Post
I've sold two rifles lately without a background check, one of them to someone I just met. We need to pick our battles, and there needs to be some compromising or we are going to end up losing badly. There is no need for a registry, there is no need for gov to know what we own or are trying to sell. A simple authorization and complete the sale.

If we don't come to an agreement we are going to look like a bunch of freaks that don't trust anyone and that don't care at all about all the innocent people murdered.

Don't agree with me, fine, I understand. But most of you guys aren't 10 miles away from sandy hook, a day don't know half the crap that we are dealing with here. I'm sorry, but this is going to be offered, and I think it's something to consider over the alternatives.


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I am more than happy for you to voluntarily submit to a background check for each private transfer you are involved in. I am ok for you to demand one from anyone you are selling to in a private transaction. I not not interested in doing that, I don't plan to sell any guns, but I might transfer them to my future heirs. If I were to sell a gun, I would probably require they show me a state DL and CHL as a substitute.

I might even be OK if your state passed a law requiring a background check for all transfers in your state, if your citizens are willing to throw their own rights under the bis of appeasement over something(Sandy Hook) that would have been prevented by said law.

I am not interested in a federal law requiring such. We don't want that here in Texas.
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:49   #81
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Originally Posted by Restless28 View Post
The weeping will commence Monday and will be in full effect Tuesday.

The pawn shops will be full of ARs and AKs very soon.
I wish I lived in your world. It sounds pretty nice.

First you state that 'reports are all over the web' indicating that the Biden recommendations will be limited to...

Then when you get presented with reports all over the web that contradict your assertion, you state that they are false...or 'carrying the water' for a failed attempt by the administration.

I reckon we'll see on Tuesday, but I do hope you're right and I'm wrong in our respective predictions.
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:53   #82
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Originally Posted by Hailstorm View Post
So, there will be another big push in the aftermarket to buy used guns. Because no tracking them.

Hate to say it. But, those of us who have pistols or CPL/CCW's are already on the list of having guns. If they want them. They know you have some. So, they will come with a warrent for firearms. Unless you can bury them in the yard two doors down. It won't help you at all if they are in your house.

At least that is my thought. I'm on the list , more then once.
If they get the background check for all private sales of used guns then you would have to go to a FFL dealer and get the transfer done. There would then be a record of the sale, with the FFL.
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:55   #83
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Originally Posted by harlenm View Post
I honestly don't care about this. It isn't a big deal, we do it here. Take 2 seconds and doesn't cost anything. This is a compromise we should be willing to make to avoid any awb or mag ban.

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I don't see the compromise. If we don't get an AWB or neutered mags it's not because they are compromising, it's because they don't have the votes to get it done. We need to make sure all politicians know the 2A is still a political 3rd rail.
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:56   #84
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Compromise on any gun control measure is like compromising with cancer cells.

We know where this leads.

They attack on a broad front, find something we are willing to compromise on, take it, wait and do it again and again, for decades if necessary until they get everything they want, which is of course the total disarmament of the people.

We will end up like the British, crime ridden, helpless and told constantly to fear everything but that our hard working government protectors are doing everything possible to protect us, they just need us to give up a few more liberties and it will all be better.
Just like slicing a salami.....one piece at a time.
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:58   #85
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I will be getting my income tax return soon and I have close to a G right now play money so if this is true I am going to clean house on the PA Forum when everybody tries to unload those 10 lowers they bought I am looking at building 2 AR's at crackhead prices
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Old 01-13-2013, 20:06   #86
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Reports are that the Biden committee will announce tougher background checks to prevent guns from ending up in the hands of the mentally ill, a nationwide discussion on mental health, and school safety initiatives.

No restriction on assault weapons or mags or ammo.

Biden has said that his Senate colleagues universally opposed any gun control. So, Obama blames Congress for no restrictions.

I think they knew this was a dog and pony show gamble. If they won, they claim success, if they lose, they blame Congress.

Come Tuesday, those folks that paid $2000 for a $600 DPMS are gonna feel pretty darn stupid. The buyers market will be back by Spring.

I sure hope you're right.

I managed to ride through this storm, keeping my ar-15 and 30 pmags I purchased well before this whole ordeal, was tempted to sell for profit, and take my chances, but I didn't feel the risk was worth the reward to me, for reasons I won't elaborate further (just my personal opinion, no logic to it worth explaining).

Ever since the sandyhook tragedy, I've just been buying 00 buckshot, since no one seems to be buying much of that in my neck of the woods.
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Old 01-13-2013, 20:44   #87
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Shouldn't we keep pushing for armed teachers in schools. No one wants another Sandy Hook, for many reasons. We shouldn't let up on this I believe c
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Old 01-13-2013, 20:54   #88
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Not true. I could see many getting a FFL to facilitate FTF sales for a nominal fee (or perhaps rely on donations to cover said FFL).
Hell, I'd think about doing it.
Brilliant. I'd do it too. More than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 01-13-2013, 20:56   #89
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Shouldn't we keep pushing for armed teachers in schools. No one wants another Sandy Hook, for many reasons. We shouldn't let up on this I believe c
It's not about school safety, it never has been. The Obama chirren go to a school with mucho security, as do most other bureaucrats in DC.

No way do the democrats repeal the law that made schools a safe criminal zone. Now if government finds a way to grow, they might consider putting guards in every school.
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Old 01-13-2013, 21:18   #90
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This is a thoroughly stupid attitude. You might want to rethink it.
harlenm - you asked why it is 'stupid' - (and Glotin changed his wording).

Anyway - it's a poor negotiating tactic to change a reasonable standpoint because a person holding a different point of view threatens to do something. Here, to agree to changes in gun sales registration/checks in order to avoid the threat that mag capacity/AR bans will be instated, is a poor decision. It is a poor decision because it is based on a threat of action, not on a reasonable position. If you stated "I believe that background checks for all guns sales is reasonable, therefore we should adopt them", that at least makes a response based on your belief. To state simply that an imagined course of action should be undertaken to appease, without support for that course of action, is inefficient and illogical.
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Old 01-13-2013, 21:24   #91
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I wish I lived in your world. It sounds pretty nice.

First you state that 'reports are all over the web' indicating that the Biden recommendations will be limited to...

Then when you get presented with reports all over the web that contradict your assertion, you state that they are false...or 'carrying the water' for a failed attempt by the administration.

I reckon we'll see on Tuesday, but I do hope you're right and I'm wrong in our respective predictions.
Umm, links have been provided. You can read this at Christian Science Monitor and Fox.

Biden counted the votes. He doesn't have them in the Senate and the House is a non starter.

They are admitting defeat without admitting it.
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Old 01-13-2013, 21:25   #92
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He'll lead negotiations with a wish list of everything.

Duh.

Poised for panic 2.0.
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Old 01-13-2013, 21:28   #93
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Well, you know how it goes... all this rambling and the TRUTH is...



We Won't Know What's In The Bill Until AFTER We Sign It....



Sure would like to be the car salesman for these guys and gals right now... would be a good line to throw down.

We might have an idea of what happened by this time next year.

Shucks, they have had 2 years (?) to setup for Obamacare, and still not one person in the Gov knows how to *implement* it.... and it went into effect some 13 days ago???

Harvard must be a great place... to go smoke weed...
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Old 01-13-2013, 21:28   #94
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Washington has a narrative, a script, if you will... And then there's the truth. Unfortunately, there are many layers in between, a playground for media and hype.
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Old 01-13-2013, 21:40   #95
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Why is it stupid?

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The Sandy Hook shooting has shown us what is possible.
If there is another shooting just before congress goes to vote, half of the freaking country will be calling for a 5 round mag limit , and you can bet your ass they will get it.
If you think your children might need a 30 round mag, you better buy them as soon as you can.
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Old 01-13-2013, 21:43   #96
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Originally Posted by frank4570 View Post
The Sandy Hook shooting has shown us what is possible.
If there is another shooting just before congress goes to vote, half of the freaking country will be calling for a 5 round mag limit , and you can bet your ass they will get it.
If you think your children might need a 30 round mag, you better buy them as soon as you can.
Buy them where?
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Old 01-13-2013, 22:07   #97
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Buy them where?
I hear CTD has a few left....
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Old 01-13-2013, 22:20   #98
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I'll believe it when I see it.

I do hope to see it, and soon.
This. Believe you me Baden et al. are looking for ways to shaft good hold honest John Q. Gunowner.
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Old 01-13-2013, 22:35   #99
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Buy them where?
I'm personally on the back order lists. I won't get my stuff tomorrow. But if we somehow manage to hold on to our rights through the Sandy Hook shootings, I will have some stuff collected. I don't want to pay for all that stuff tomorrow, anyway. And you can bet that I will be a member of the NRA, and SAF, and GOA, and any other pro-gun organization BEFORE the next Sandy Hook happens again, Which will happen. I hadn't been as vigilant before sandy hook as I should have been. I'm now member of everything, I'm going to keep it that way.
Anybody who wants to keep their guns should learn from what happened the first 1 or 2 weeks after Sandy Hook.
One day, we were pretty secure. 24 hours later, pro-gun republicans were abandoning us. It is going to happen again.
The people who want to take away our guns are just waiting for the right set of circumstances. Sandy Hook was very close to the right set of circumstances. I'm sure they will have another shot at it.
We can be a solid wall of resolve, or not.
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Old 01-13-2013, 22:40   #100
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Originally Posted by frank4570 View Post
And you can bet that I will be a member of the NRA, and SAF, and GOA, and any other pro-gun organization BEFORE the next Sandy Hook happens again......


We can be a solid wall of resolve, or not.
You aren't even an NRA member yet? Why wait?
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