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Old 01-13-2013, 13:00   #21
Colorado4Wheel
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Picture of the LnL and it's primer setup screwed into the subplate. You can see half the primer punch setup.

Reloading

Picture of the Dillon Setup on top of the same plate. You can see how big it is in comparison. It has ample primer punch movement because it's 5X bigger.
Reloading
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Old 01-13-2013, 13:55   #22
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Reloading

This is the most important part on the Case Feeder slider setup. You can see it captures the rim of the case, it also has a channel for the primer to move in if there is any primer flow around the firing pin. This is common on brass fired out of a Glock. With out it your just trying to push a case that doesn't sit flat on the subplate into the shell holder. Sometimes it will work, occasionally you will have issues. Hornady simply does not have this part. And on top of it all your moving the case over the spring which is not flat and aggravates the issue.
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Old 01-13-2013, 14:04   #23
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I have owned A few Lee presses and two LNL's (pre and post EZ), only progressive metallic reloading machines I have now are Dillons.

Sometimes it's fun to tinker with things but sooner or later you just want something that works.

Last edited by jmorris; 01-13-2013 at 14:07..
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Old 01-13-2013, 14:15   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Reloading

This is the most important part on the Case Feeder slider setup. You can see it captures the rim of the case, it also has a channel for the primer to move in if there is any primer flow around the firing pin. This is common on brass fired out of a Glock. With out it your just trying to push a case that doesn't sit flat on the subplate into the shell holder. Sometimes it will work, occasionally you will have issues. Hornady simply does not have this part. And on top of it all your moving the case over the spring which is not flat and aggravates the issue.
It's funny because the Pro1000 has no controlled feed. The cases flop down on a flat slide and are pushed into the shellplate by a concave slider. There's no relief for fired primers either. It works great.
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Old 01-13-2013, 14:20   #25
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My Load Master slider was the same. It worked better then the LnL as well. It's more then likely the spring recess causing the majority of issues on the LnL.
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Old 01-13-2013, 14:24   #26
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IndyGunFreak..."Curious.. which Dillon are you considering?"

I have found that reloading presses are like the ammunition we shoot - it is specific to the shooter and the gun he/she is shooting.

For my reloading needs and anticipated ammunition use the 650 with several optional toys is my first choice. I know this will be a substantial investment but as I pointed out I like to buy things once. Based on others personal experiences, what each company offers, track record, and about 1/2 a dozen other things (pressure to buy a Dillon not being one of them), I feel for as along as the good Lord lets me live down here, this press will serve all my needs... and I am quite sure my son's after me.
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Old 01-13-2013, 14:31   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorris View Post
I have owned A few Lee presses and two LNL's (pre and post EZ), only progressive metallic reloading machines I have now are Dillons.

Sometimes it's fun to tinker with things but sooner or later you just want something that works.
Given some of your past posts, I'm fairly convinced you could figure out how to turn a washing machine into a reloading press.

If the LNL annoyed you to the point you went Dillon, I'd take that as a pretty good indication to stay away.
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Old 01-13-2013, 14:32   #28
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You won't be disappointed with the 650.
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:47   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
So you implying he is right and others on this forum have essentially done the same thing are not being "honest". I have owned all three. The LoadMaster shouldn't even be compared to those two and the 650 is far better then the LnL. He even admits the LnL didn't work as good and he still preferred the LnL. That makes zero sense to me. What I learned from the article is the following....

Anyone can post anything they want on the internet. That doesn't make it true.

That article helped me rationalize a LnL over the 650 and that was a HUGE mistake.

I have a objective ways I can prove the Dillon is better. It's called a Caliber conversion kit. Look at all the caliber specific parts Dillon has that Hornady does not. It's those parts that make the 650 the better press.
I agree with what he said on the LnL. And I am not saying anyone is a liar on this forum. He really should not even be comparing a 650 to a LnL. My LnL works, I have no problems with priming. It never jams because of spilt powder, though I don't spill a lot of powder. The lock and load bushing I have are all uniform and tight. I simply have never seen this write up and was sharing it, that's all.
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
25acp,.223,25-20win,.308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 9mm,.40,10mm .45acp, .475 Wildey Mag
On 2 Hornady LNL's And a Super 1050

As Reloaders we should adapt the load to the gun, not the gun to the load.
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Old 01-13-2013, 20:05   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
There are so many things in that article that are wrong it's amazing.

1) Hornady does not have a "mostly" controlled feed path on it's cases for it's case feeder. That is it's biggest issue. Dillon does.
2) If you spill powder on the LnL it does get in the primer setup and the primer setup will jam. If your not careful (ask Zombie Steve) the press will explode parts into the ceiling.
3) Dillon Powder measure is WAY better then the Lee. It meters the same as the Hornday (both are as good as you can expect them to be). I never found Either lacking. I hear Hornady is better with Stick Powders. Never tried them in either press. He talks about squibs and bridging. Never Ever had that happen on the Dillon. It did happen on the Lee. Just because two things look similar doesn't mean they are the same.
4) He should have measured the primer seater throw and height. The Hornady is MARGINAL in this area. Dillon is not.
5) Dillon has a solid ram. Hornady is hollow, thin and flexiable.

I could go on and on.
1) How is it not mostly controlled, I have never had a issue with the ramp our drop tube, only with the bowl.

2) Never have had this happen in thousands of rounds.

3) I have witnessed Dillons powder measure and I disagree, Hornadys is way better. Just as accurate to .01 gr, throws stick powder a million times better. The Dillon just will not throw stick. I also have seen and had squib loads using Dillons powder measure, the bar jams up.

4) I prime with ease, but I did add a metal shim to reduce the dimple travel. I also like the primer change over better on the LnL.

5) Agree, but I don't think its that big off a deal

6) Hornday is a lot quicker and cheaper as far as caliber changes PERIOD.

All this said, I still want a 650 and a 1050 especially a 1050. I own many Dillon products and they are all great, same with hornady. Some have flaws, some do not, each product is different.

The 650 is a better machine PERIOD, but it is also twice as much if you included tool heads. The LnL takes some tweaking, Some of the machines are purely flawed apparently (Ex Colorado) but not all. I think the article has value, is it the bible on which press to get. Hell no. But neither is the words of a Dillon owner or a Hornady owner.
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
25acp,.223,25-20win,.308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 9mm,.40,10mm .45acp, .475 Wildey Mag
On 2 Hornady LNL's And a Super 1050

As Reloaders we should adapt the load to the gun, not the gun to the load.
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Old 01-13-2013, 20:39   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_NinO619 View Post
1) How is it not mostly controlled, I have never had a issue with the ramp our drop tube, only with the bowl.


Well it's not controlled in the sense that the case is just sliding on the sub-plate. It can fall off or tip or have any number of issues. The Dillon is controlled. I posted a picture of the part. Just because you never have issues doesn't mean others don't have issues. Mine wouldn't work better then 1/50 failure rate. I am not alone as lots of people over at Brian Enos forum had the same issues.


2) Never have had this happen in thousands of rounds.


You never spilled powder and had the slider hang back? Wow, your in the minority. Most LnL owners say "Keep some compressed air to blow it out regularly"


3) I have witnessed Dillons powder measure and I disagree, Hornadys is way better. Just as accurate to .01 gr, throws stick powder a million times better. The Dillon just will not throw stick. I also have seen and had squib loads using Dillons powder measure, the bar jams up.

Never used stick in my Dillon. It's easy to find a good ball powder even in rifle. I said that in my post.

4) I prime with ease, but I did add a metal shim to reduce the dimple travel. I also like the primer change over better on the LnL.

I would rather have one that works. Mine didn't. It's the way the LnL is. Some work, some don't.


5) Agree, but I don't think its that big off a deal

6) Hornday is a lot quicker and cheaper as far as caliber changes PERIOD.

Cheaper not quicker unless you are chaning primer size. Not by a long shot. All it takes is one bushing getting stuck and the entire die has to be reset. Cheaper is not better. That is why the Dillon is better. Caliber specific parts cost more.
Yes, the 650 cost more, yes the caliber conversion with the primer change is more time consuming if you have to switch primers sizes. You can buy a primer setup and it won't take long at all. But when it comes to a press that can crank out 100 rds in 5 mins for under 1K the 650 has no peers. it's that simple
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Old 01-13-2013, 21:40   #32
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Can the Dillon 650 be used without an automatic case feeder?
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Old 01-13-2013, 21:44   #33
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yes you manually fill the case tube.
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Old 01-13-2013, 21:47   #34
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Thanks
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Old 01-13-2013, 21:48   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kablam View Post
Can the Dillon 650 be used without an automatic case feeder?
Yes. I don't know why I don't come around here more often. I forget how fun these threads can be
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Old 01-13-2013, 22:08   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDRoX View Post
Yes. I don't know why I don't come around here more often. I forget how fun these threads can be
I guess I have a knack for riling up Colarado4wheel. Just kidding man. I already said the 650 is better, what else do you want?

But I think someone just bought a LnL to prove it does not work.......
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
25acp,.223,25-20win,.308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 9mm,.40,10mm .45acp, .475 Wildey Mag
On 2 Hornady LNL's And a Super 1050

As Reloaders we should adapt the load to the gun, not the gun to the load.
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Old 01-13-2013, 22:26   #37
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Yes. That is what me and Boxer both did. Risk loosing money, and 5 months of agony. Failure to fire ammo in matchs. Just to make a stupid point. That makes sense.

When I got my LnL pretty much everyone I talked to said it was a good press. Remember Jack has two and I got to play with them and watch them work.
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Old 01-13-2013, 23:18   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Yes. That is what me and Boxer both did. Risk loosing money, and 5 months of agony. Failure to fire ammo in matchs. Just to make a stupid point. That makes sense.

When I got my LnL pretty much everyone I talked to said it was a good press. Remember Jack has two and I got to play with them and watch them work.
I kid I kid. But it would be cool just to buy another color press and make it "not" work just to ruffle feathers.

I really I'm contemplating selling one of my LnL's and getting a 650, or save a little while and get a 1050.
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se carga el diablo de la pistola...
25acp,.223,25-20win,.308, 8mm M, 7mm Rem Mag, 9mm,.40,10mm .45acp, .475 Wildey Mag
On 2 Hornady LNL's And a Super 1050

As Reloaders we should adapt the load to the gun, not the gun to the load.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:32   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Yes. That is what me and Boxer both did. Risk loosing money, and 5 months of agony. Failure to fire ammo in matchs. Just to make a stupid point. That makes sense.

When I got my LnL pretty much everyone I talked to said it was a good press. Remember Jack has two and I got to play with them and watch them work.
Just to be clear it wasn't me that bought one as well... it was Shotgunred. I did get to play with one for several hundred rounds prior to buying my 650 and occasionally load on one a buddy has when I need some .45ACP as I like to shoot "heavy metal" 3-gun with a borrowed 1911 and my AK once in a while.
I read that review article you posted Justin back when I was making my decision to move to a case feeder progressive. That gentleman did a pretty good job. Though the one thing he stated that his requirements of only 500 an hour is what turned me off actually even trying the LNL. At that rate I would have stayed with either one of my SDBs. My needs are for a press that absolutely minimizes my time at the bench. I never had any faith in the LNL case feed shuttle, the 650 station 1 locator is clearly to me a better design. One thing I did notice right away in differences between the two presses is the leverage of the 650 is far greater than the LNL, in both sizing and priming. The advantage on the 650 is if you do have a military 9mm crimped case sneak by it's easily detectable.
The 1050 is a beast. I've had 2 friends come over to prep brass on the 650 and them load on the 1050 and they just can't say enough to echo my feelings on the set-up. For me it money well spent, as must as I thought the super swage was pretty good.... it was an chore. I love having the ability to just literally start from scratch with clean .223 brass... size and trim 300 cases in 20 minutes, tumble for 30 minutes to remove the lube... toss the brass in the 1050 case feeder and load then up in another 30 minutes.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:56   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EL_NinO619 View Post
I kid I kid. But it would be cool just to buy another color press and make it "not" work just to ruffle feathers.
I am way to much of a CRB to spend money on a press just to ruffle feathers. If I had not already owned the 550 I would have figured out all the issues of the LNL. However I just couldn't couldn't see keeping a press that cost more that the one I had when it didn't work as well for me. Any of the major presses out there are capable of making more ammo than the average person needs. Buy a press figure it out and make some ammo.
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