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Old 01-12-2013, 19:18   #26
Bruce M
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Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
The real problem is they scare the folks that have no fixed opinion on the subject of guns. And they run the risk of alienating those that are on the fence on the issue.

All the anti's have to do is point to folks like these and say, "there, that's what the folks that own the "black rifles" are like, nutjobs that think carrying an assault weapon downtown is a great idea."

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Narcissistic navel gazers always have a different view of things, because for them they are the only thing that matters. Common sense and self restraint never enter into their thinking. all they think about is what they want.

They take liberty for license, adopting a thought process that is, "As long as it is legal I'll do it", then wail when society gets fed up with their antics and makes it illegal.

And even then they will never acknowledge that their activities were counter productive. And never served any purpose other than their own gratification.

The Legalist asks- "Can I?"
The Libertine asks, "Will I?"
The Prudent man asks - "Should I?"


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Originally Posted by splitfinger09 View Post
...

Regarding infighting and open dissension, yes we can be our own worst antagonists. "We have met the enemy and he is us."
When we scare people and when we take people who are on the fence and turn them against us, we hurt our cause and become our own enemies.

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At my age, I ask, "Do I really have to?"
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Old 01-12-2013, 20:18   #27
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Aren't these the same guys who go around their small Oregon town open carrying ARs and film their encounters with local cops?
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Old 01-12-2013, 20:25   #28
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Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post



When we scare people and when we take people who are on the fence and turn them against us, we hurt our cause and become our own enemies.


Dont get me wrong what they did was stupid and not very well thought out. At the end of the day though they did not break any laws and did what they have every right to do. I support them because I support the second ammendment.

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Old 01-12-2013, 20:25   #29
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Its 2013... people are going to call and report people strolling around with rifles. Police will have to waste time making contact and all the while.. real calls are waiting on their attention.

All kinds of things are not illegal but at the same time, they are not prudent. "in your face" activism rarely sits well with people, no matter what side of the fence they are on.
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Old 01-12-2013, 21:03   #30
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I support personal rights.
I support civil rights.
I support Constitutional rights.
I support legal actions.

Just because I support the above does not mean I support stupid actions.
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 01-12-2013, 21:15   #31
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
I support personal rights.
I support civil rights.
I support Constitutional rights.
I support legal actions.

Just because I support the above does not mean I support stupid actions.
Well said. Just remember "Support OC, CC, and noC - the real point is that we support the individual right, the freedom, to make that decision." We cannot waiver on our views. Either support legal gun action or not.
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Old 01-12-2013, 21:38   #32
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I do not support stupid gun action, even if it's "legal".
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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:24   #33
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At the end of the day though they did not break any laws and did what they have every right to do.
And this is precisely what is wrong with many's thinking.

Simply because something is legal does not make it right, prudent, or effective.

it's interesting that so many who disparage the State turn around and form their philosophy and ethics from the state.
They let the state determine what is right or wrong. based solely on what is legal and what is illegal.

The state does not determine my views on ethics or right and wrong. it can only tell me what is legal and what is illegal.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:26   #34
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
I do not support stupid gun action, even if it's "legal".
+1, if something is stupid it is stupid whether it is legal or not.

I don't support stupid.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:02   #35
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Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
"... They let the state determine what is right or wrong. based solely on what is legal and what is illegal.

The state does not determine my views on ethics or right and wrong. it can only tell me what is legal and what is illegal..."
The natural result of moral relativism. There's no "right" and "wrong", no "good" and "bad" anymore. Just "legal" and "illegal".

<sarcasm>
We don't need no steenkin' Morality.
</sarcasm>
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:07   #36
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The natural result of moral relativism. There's no "right" and "wrong", no "good" and "bad" anymore. Just "legal" and "illegal".

<sarcasm>
We don't need no steenkin' Morality.
</sarcasm>
+1 as Allan Bloom predicted 30 years ago, the abandonment of Absolute truth in favor of moral relativism and situational ethics was producing generations that would be cynical, self centered, and amoral."
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:32   #37
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I don't think it does anything to promote gun rights education. I think it probably antagonizes people and may push fence sitters off the fence the wrong way.

Look at it like this, if an anti gun activist was walking up and down your block with a megaphone ranting about stuff it would probably irritate you and it certainly wouldn't sway your opinion. If these young men want to educate people about gun rights then they should put on a jacket and tie, print up some literature and hit the streets to make their case.

That they stated in the article they thought people would approach them for conversation while carrying ARs is an indicator that they didn't think this through very well.

The best I can say is good thought, sharing information about gun rights, but really nonsensical execution. There are lots of things that are legal to do that aren't necessarily wise to do.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:53   #38
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That they stated in the article they thought people would approach them for conversation while carrying ARs is an indicator that they didn't think this through very well.
And this demonstrates the usual bi polar nature of thought among OC activists and many Gun rights folks. They can believe to distinct and opposite things are equally true.

On one hand they maintain that the world is a far to dangerous place to go unarmed. There are people out there that want to hurt you. They also maintain that OC is an effective deterrent against criminals.

But then they equally believe that other citizens should not be alarmed by unknown individuals openly displaying firearms or even carrying rifle in their hands.

Apparently these people are NOT supposed to believe that there are people out there wanting to hurt them and the sight of an unknown person with a firearm is not supposed to disturb them at all.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:23   #39
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About as smart as showing up at Dairy Queen with your weenis out. The only thing acting out in this fashion does is make liberals think gun owners are attention seeking re-tards.
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Old 01-14-2013, 06:11   #40
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Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post

Look at it like this, if an anti gun activist was walking up and down your block with a megaphone ranting about stuff it would probably irritate you and it certainly wouldn't sway your opinion. If these young men want to educate people about gun rights then they should put on a jacket and tie, print up some literature and hit the streets to make their case.
Good point. I have discussed similarities in point of view and differences with Amnesty International signature gatherers late last year while working in San Francisco. In that liberal Mecca the AI volunteers were polite even while we disagreed. I always ended the interaction by wishing them a good day and they said the same. They never converted me but they also never alienated a potential supporter while in my presence.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:23   #41
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What would be the political / media effect of carrying the same rifles in rifle cases?
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:12   #42
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Why cause such an alarm amongst the public?
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:29   #43
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The real problem is they scare the folks that have no fixed opinion on the subject of guns. And they run the risk of alienating those that are on the fence on the issue.

All the anti's have to do is point to folks like these and say, "there, that's what the folks that own the "black rifles" are like, nutjobs that think carrying an assault weapon downtown is a great idea."
+1 Not helpful.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:37   #44
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What would be the political / media effect of carrying the same rifles in rifle cases?
Probably less of a "juicy" story for the local press.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:33   #45
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And this demonstrates the usual bi polar nature of thought among OC activists and many Gun rights folks. They can believe to distinct and opposite things are equally true.

On one hand they maintain that the world is a far to dangerous place to go unarmed. There are people out there that want to hurt you. They also maintain that OC is an effective deterrent against criminals.

But then they equally believe that other citizens should not be alarmed by unknown individuals openly displaying firearms or even carrying rifle in their hands.

Apparently these people are NOT supposed to believe that there are people out there wanting to hurt them and the sight of an unknown person with a firearm is not supposed to disturb them at all.
A very good summary!
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