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Old 01-12-2013, 10:38   #21
Zombie Steve
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If it helps, I load 230 XTP's and cast bullets from lee mold (230 tc) to 1.210". Works in my Brown, my Springfield TRP, my friend's Wilson and his Colt Rail Gun.





Of course I could be wrong, but I thought all SA was Imbel steel. The NM designation basically just indicated that all of the fitting was done in the US.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:15   #22
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If there's a line forming to use the reamer, I might be interested in giving it a try. Is it really as easy as just lubing the chamber with the cutting oil, inserting the reamer, and slowly hand turning the tool (or barrel) to take a little off the inside of the barrel just forward of end of the chamber?
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Old 01-12-2013, 13:43   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel Head View Post
Custom and TAP 200 & 230's chamber and fire perfectly in my NM# Springfield.
They should in yours too.
I agree, they should, but I don't think they will. What is the COAL of the 230 TAP if you don't mind measuring for me? If it's over 1.180", it won't fit.
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Old 01-12-2013, 13:51   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Steve View Post
If it helps, I load 230 XTP's and cast bullets from lee mold (230 tc) to 1.210". Works in my Brown, my Springfield TRP, my friend's Wilson and his Colt Rail Gun.



Yeah, but what do Ed brown and Sam Colt know about building 1911's?
















There is no way 1.210" is going to fit with a 230XTP, it won't even be close. I tried it as I made my dummy round. I started too long and kept sneaking the bullet in until it fit, just barely, at 1.180". It would probably need to be 1.170" to be 100% reliable under field conditions.
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Old 01-12-2013, 13:53   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scattershot View Post
FWIW, I have several 45 pistols, and the only one I have that has given me fits with factory ammo is a Kahr. Hornady TAP, several other brands of .45 SD ammo, and even GI ball touches the rifling, and sticks to one degree or another. I've had good luck with Speer 230 Gold Dots, though.
Aren't Karhrs, at least in other calibers, known for having short leades also?
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Old 01-12-2013, 14:08   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
Aren't Karhrs, at least in other calibers, known for having short leades also?

I'm new to Kahrs, but I'm starting to hear more about the problem.
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Old 01-12-2013, 20:20   #27
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My trigger was terrible and I'm not a trigger snob. It wasn't even the weight as much as the grit and creep. But, in just 100 rounds it has gotten better. I'm definately going to leave this gun with the smith and let him clean it up. I bet he can get a near match trigger out of it with the stock parts in about 5 minutes. I'll play around with some of the other 1911's that will be there to feel different trigger weights. I'm guessing I'll want somewhere around 4# or so, not too light, but definitely CLEANER on the break.

Mine came with nice checkered stocks, so I'm good with those. How do I avoid screwing up the grips screw bushings?

ETA: those MG and GD bullets might be more like ball in that the long ogive means the full diameter of the bullet is in the case. It seems there can be NONE of the bullet with a diameter of 0.452" or greater out of the case. The Rem ammo I have has only ogive sticking out, so I'm wondering if the manufacturers know that 1911's are like this and the ammo accounts for this.

Is the gun right and my ammo is wrong? I don't want to change the gun to fit ammo that isn't "correct", but then there is no way the Hornady TAP or Custom factory loaded XTP's are going to fit in this thing.

Same thing with my trigger. 4lbs is about as light as I will go. I am running the MTGs short.

Here's the 1911. There's 2 versions mil spec and GI. IIRC the mil spec has the lowered ejection port and a better lead in the barrel I do have the mill spec.

Reloading


Reloading

Reloading

Yeah it doesn't see the gold dots, I just ran a few for function testing. I use the target load from the label above.

Actually really getting serious about maybe casting. Can't deal with the price and no availability any more. Just time and finding lead are the issue.


Some where I have the grips I bought and never put on. They are the GI grips marked US.

I never had an issue with grip bushings. Common sense don't go crazy tightening things. Some guys use small o rings under the screws or grips like lock washers to keep em tight. I just snug em once in a while when I wipe the gun down in and out of the safe.
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Old 01-12-2013, 20:51   #28
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Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
I agree, they should, but I don't think they will. What is the COAL of the 230 TAP if you don't mind measuring for me? If it's over 1.180", it won't fit.
Fed AE 230 ball=1.267 OAL--sits .012 below flush

Hornandy custom 200XTP 1.221 OAL---sits .008 below flush.

Hornandy TAP 230XTP 1.210---sits .010 below flush.

The 230 shocked me Bit the shorter oal,I weighed them to be sure.
The bal and XTP230's I could not push into chamber and get to stick at all,Tried a handful of both.
The 200XTP's I could get to stick about 70% of a handfull of rounds

All factory loaded.
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Last edited by Steel Head; 01-12-2013 at 20:58.. Reason: wrong measurment
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Old 01-12-2013, 21:19   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2extrm View Post
Same thing with my trigger. 4lbs is about as light as I will go. I am running the MTGs short.

Here's the 1911. There's 2 versions mil spec and GI. IIRC the mil spec has the lowered ejection port and a better lead in the barrel I do have the mill spec.


Yeah it doesn't see the gold dots, I just ran a few for function testing. I use the target load from the label above.

Actually really getting serious about maybe casting. Can't deal with the price and no availability any more. Just time and finding lead are the issue.


Some where I have the grips I bought and never put on. They are the GI grips marked US.

I never had an issue with grip bushings. Common sense don't go crazy tightening things. Some guys use small o rings under the screws or grips like lock washers to keep em tight. I just snug em once in a while when I wipe the gun down in and out of the safe.
Mine was before they had the GI and MilSpec. They had only one. I think the ejection port is lowered, judging by pics online, but I know it's not flared. I took a pic of it with my phone, but it's a Samsung and I need a Samsung cord to load them in the computer (it's not a smart phone). The cord is in my drawer. Actually, it was in my drawer before the guy who stole my sock from the dryer moved it. The wife is at work, she'll know where it is and I can post pics tomorrow.

It's kind of in-between the GI and MS. It doesn't have every feature of the MS, but it has better sights than the GI. It has some real nice checkered grips on it with no logos and that greenish parkerizing.
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Old 01-12-2013, 21:21   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel Head View Post
Fed AE 230 ball=1.267 OAL--sits .012 below flush

Hornandy custom 200XTP 1.221 OAL---sits .008 below flush.

Hornandy TAP 230XTP 1.210---sits .010 below flush.

The 230 shocked me Bit the shorter oal,I weighed them to be sure.
The bal and XTP230's I could not push into chamber and get to stick at all,Tried a handful of both.
The 200XTP's I could get to stick about 70% of a handfull of rounds

All factory loaded.
Thanks for running all of that down. There is no way the 230 XTP's would chamber at that length. The others I'm not sure about.
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Old 01-12-2013, 21:40   #31
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I have a box of WinUSA from about the same time as when I got the gun. While I can push then in the chamber, it takes a fair amount of thumbnail to pull them back out. I think the slide would close on them, but it shouldn't be that tight.
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Old 01-12-2013, 21:54   #32
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I have a box of WinUSA from about the same time as when I got the gun. While I can push then in the chamber, it takes a fair amount of thumbnail to pull them back out. I think the slide would close on them, but it shouldn't be that tight.
No,it's not

Looking into the chamber can you see a taper(the leade)cut into the rifling at all?
Mine for no better words to describe it is a square.
The taper is cut as deep at the rifling bands are wide.
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Old 01-12-2013, 21:58   #33
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No,it's not

Looking into the chamber can you see a taper(the leade)cut into the rifling at all?
Mine for no better words to describe it is a square.
The taper is cut as deep at the rifling bands are wide.
I can see clearly into the area of the chamber in question and it looks like there simply isn't any leade. Certainly not the type that you describe yours as having.
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Old 01-12-2013, 22:37   #34
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It's not going to win any Picture of The Year awards but you can clearly see the leade from the chamber step to rifling.

This is from a Springfield RO.
Reloading
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:34   #35
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Originally Posted by Steel Head View Post
It's not going to win any Picture of The Year awards but you can clearly see the leade from the chamber step to rifling.

This is from a Springfield RO.
Reloading
Wow! You da man! I was thinking of taking a macro shot of mine and I was wondering if it would turn out well. Now I don't have to

Mine looks just like yours, except the rifling goes all the way to the headspace shoulder. There is no leade. All of that nice taper you have leading to the rifling doesn't exist. It just starts, and right at the end of the chamber itself where cartridge case ends.

I wonder if the leade is cut in a different step from the rest of the chamber cutting and they forgot to do it? The chamber itself looks to be nicely done, not that I'm an expert. So if the leade is cut with the reamer that does the rest of the chamber, I don't see how the leade wouldn't have been cut at the same time. Maybe SA thinks this is the way the chamber should be done, or at least they did 20 years ago?

Either way, the gun is going to the smith. I almost can't wait until Thursday.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:09   #36
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Glad it helped
I'm not sure how the leade is cut.
I'm curious now and will search out what I can.
I wonder how the lack of leade affects accuracy and pressure
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:31   #37
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I expect a mass produced barrel will have the chamber and leade cut in one pass with a reamer ground to shape.

The SAAMI specification is for a 2 deg 35 min taper from the chamber mouth into the rifling with no cylindrical throat as commonly seen in rifle chambers.

A chamber without that tapered leade is incomplete and incorrect.
You can accomodate it by seating all the bearing surface down in the case but might see leading or coppering as the bullet slams into the abrupt start of the rifling.

A real accurizing gunsmith will cut the leade and maybe even a throat* separately, either to suit the customer's ammo, or he will recommend ammunition.

*"Throating" a 1911 has come to mean grinding on the other end of the chamber for the purpose of feeding odd bullet shapes. Those old time accurizing gunsmiths would refer to that as "ramping" because they were "throating" the front of the chamber for a good entry into the rifling.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:02   #38
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I expect a mass produced barrel will have the chamber and leade cut in one pass with a reamer ground to shape.

The SAAMI specification is for a 2 deg 35 min taper from the chamber mouth into the rifling with no cylindrical throat as commonly seen in rifle chambers.

A chamber without that tapered leade is incomplete and incorrect.
You can accomodate it by seating all the bearing surface down in the case but might see leading or coppering as the bullet slams into the abrupt start of the rifling.

A real accurizing gunsmith will cut the leade and maybe even a throat* separately, either to suit the customer's ammo, or he will recommend ammunition.

*"Throating" a 1911 has come to mean grinding on the other end of the chamber for the purpose of feeding odd bullet shapes. Those old time accurizing gunsmiths would refer to that as "ramping" because they were "throating" the front of the chamber for a good entry into the rifling.
Boy, you aint kidding. I have a little leading just at the beginning of the rifling as you will see in the pics.

After a little reading on Stephen A. Camp's sight, I found that I probably have a two piece barrel. I don't know how that effects the reaming process. The seam is obvious on the outside of the barrel, but not the inside where it counts, so I can't tell where one piece ends and the other begins inside the chamber.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:03   #39
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Here is the chamber. After looking at it under a magnifying glass, and taking this super-macro picture, nothing looks right about it at all with regards to the leade.

Reloading
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:06   #40
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Here is the gun and a dummy round with the 230XTP loaded so it will fit the gun. I blotted out the last three digits of the SN, so don't think it's some kind of super-low number gun

Am I correct on the lowering of the ejection port?

Reloading
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