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Old 01-10-2013, 05:40   #101
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agreed....

And on the poster that posted he signed EOs banning guns or parts or whatever, during his 1st term,

Here's the list of the EOs that has been signed by POTUS since his term up to dec 2012;

http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...ers/obama.html

You should scan thru them, before spitting out nonsense.
Good info here. Thank you
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:55   #102
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They simply do not have Carte Blanche to do as they please.they may take liberties with the system, but it is a well-built system. There are checks and balances built in. I wish people would stop wailing about the sky falling and use the system to assert their rights. Eric
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I am a smart man and I have my eyes wide open. I also have my ears and my mind open. I am not going to cloud my thoughts with pointless panic, or with baseless conspiracy theories.

I love this country and I believe in it. The US may be experiencing troubled times, but this nation is larger than any one man or one administration. Firearms owners & enthusiasts is probably the single biggest special interest group in the nation. If we cannot come together and protect those rights within the law, we don't deserve them. Eric

I agree. I think it also pays to remember how much has been gained in the area of shall issue concealed carry in the last couple decades.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:49   #103
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There are many checks and balances in place but I think many here underestimate Obama's total disregard for our Constitution. He will try and ram unconstitutional legislation, laws, executive orders etc... down our throats.
He will throw it out there and see what he can get to stick.
He's dangerous.


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Old 01-10-2013, 07:00   #104
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Not to make a shameless plug for a thread I just started, but I think it would be a good idea to collect many different letters to representatives, to give a little nudge to those that haven' started writing daily yet. I could make it easier.

Cuomo's outrageous recommendations are a trial balloon. I lukewarm response will not pop it.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1463492
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:26   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noway View Post
agreed....

And on the poster that posted he signed EOs banning guns or parts or whatever, during his 1st term,

Here's the list of the EOs that has been signed by POTUS since his term up to dec 2012;

http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...ers/obama.html

You should scan thru them, before spitting out nonsense.
That's using the most narrow definition of "executive order".

Here is an example of a less narrow definition.

https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...ve-devices-and
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:29   #106
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Kick all the cats you want; I hate cats.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:42   #107
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They are sending out all these drastic signals to get us to think the worst is about to happen.

Then when they come out with much less we are all supposed to be relieved that they are only making us register or eliminate private transactions or what ever it is they have planned.

It won't be as much as you think but will be more of our 2a right taken away. That tactic has worked very well for the left over the years, something the right will never understand.

So don't forget to be happy when they only infringe our rights a little bit.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:44   #108
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They are sending out all these drastic signals to get us to think the worst is about to happen.

Then when they come out with much less we are all supposed to be relieved that they are only making us register or eliminate private transactions or what ever it is they have planned.

It won't be as much as you think but will be more of our 2a right taken away. That tactic has worked very well for the left over the years, something the right will never understand.

So don't forget to be happy when they only infringe our rights a little bit.
I believe some call it a welcome compromise.

Problem with that is only one side gives up something.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:59   #109
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The current crop of republicans has not been very good at negotiating. The fiscal cliff fix was not really a fix, and it was supposed to be a balanced approach. 41 dollars in new taxes for every 1 dollar of spending cuts is not "balanced".

Compromising with Liberals, too often means making their position yours. This time, I hope they will grow a backbone, and hold the line this time.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:00   #110
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There is a petition now to Pledge not to use an Executive Order to restrict the 2nd amendment.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...izens/JPXqVSqV
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:02   #111
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The current crop of republicans has not been very good at negotiating. The fiscal cliff fix was not really a fix, and it was supposed to be a balanced approach. 41 dollars in new taxes for every 1 dollar of spending cuts is not "balanced".

Compromising with Liberals, too often means making their position yours. This time, I hope they will grow a backbone, and hold the line this time.
Lean far enough to the left and the scale does look balanced.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:05   #112
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Lean far enough to the left and the scale does look balanced.
I can't see it from here. The Okie Corral


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Old 01-10-2013, 09:06   #113
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Originally Posted by ThinkMud View Post
There is a petition now to Pledge not to use an Executive Order to restrict the 2nd amendment.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...izens/JPXqVSqV
Oh, that will be disappearing shortly. I'll sign it anyway.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:13   #114
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There is a petition now to Pledge not to use an Executive Order to restrict the 2nd amendment.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...izens/JPXqVSqV
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Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Oh, that will be disappearing shortly. I'll sign it anyway.
My thoughts too. There is another one out there too about the Exec. Orders. here: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...ation/Mmts4cbS
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:35   #115
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Originally Posted by ThinkMud View Post
My thoughts too. There is another one out there too about the Exec. Orders. here: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...ation/Mmts4cbS
Saw that one and signed it too.
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Old 01-12-2013, 21:53   #116
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Huh...what about ObamaCare? Americans didn't want it. It was horribly unpopular (and still is); yet the democratic party formed a line and followed their leader.
You beat me to it. I was thinking this exact thing while reading. We shouldn't stop fighting but it is foolish to discount what our government has become. If the fight goes anything like the one that was supposed to get Obama out of office, then I'm not hopeful. The numbers he got in the voting booth speaks volumes about the numbers we have in the opposition.
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Old 01-12-2013, 22:12   #117
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If they could have done an EO, they would have already. It's not going to happen, folks.
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Old 01-12-2013, 23:56   #118
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I've often pictured Eric looking like this, but with a bigger head.

Rambo First Blood: Nothing is Over! Speech - YouTube

Damn right!!! Well played Sir...

Eric, you're 110% dead nuts on man.
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Old 01-13-2013, 00:46   #119
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Originally Posted by LockHavenYellow View Post
Wouldn't it be convenient if a SCOTUS justice was replaced by a new, democratic justice? Will take a long time, but it's a thought/possibility.


And yes, I placed my tin foil hat on my head while typing this.
Brother, go fly that nice Cub in your avatar. It's not over by a long shot. A little flying will mellow you out. My brothers getting pretty wound up too. It's far from time for the ammo box.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:42   #120
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I'm sorry, but I have noooo intentions of fallowing the demands of a tyrant. Any executive order he may do or attempt to will be illegal just like his dream act crap and I hope they have the cojones to impeach him.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:26   #121
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Brother, go fly that nice Cub in your avatar. It's not over by a long shot. A little flying will mellow you out. My brothers getting pretty wound up too. It's far from time for the ammo box.
AMEN!!

That's what I miss. Things get a little tense, even just half an hour in the clouds, all's good, head's clearer, mind's working better, decicions come easier.

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Old 01-13-2013, 12:29   #122
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I found this enlightening on what's to be expected in the short term:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...l-legislation/

"There are a bunch of proposals floating around right now about increased (or even decreased) gun control, and with the post-Sandy Hook shooting emotional response just about over there’s an even more concerted push to get “something” done before the window closes again. Sure, Piers Morgan and the like are trying to keep the story alive and keep driving towards a shredding of the second amendment, but there’s only so much the political climate (and Americans’ attention span) can support. So while the rest of the crew is in transit to LAS, I thought I’d do some handicapping of the possibilities . . .
Just a quick note here. While I’m a fully trained risk analyst and used to do stuff like this for a living for DHS, none of this is particularly scientific. What you’re getting is my “gut feeling” rather than any hard and fast math. Mainly because hard and fast math is pretty much useless for this kind of thing. I’m going to try to rank them in order of risk of passage, based on likelihood of introduction and probability of enactment.

Increased Scrutiny with NICS Checks
There’s no doubt that one of the things Biden is going to propose on Tuesday is an executive order to “toughen” background checks. Whether that involves increased or mandatory inclusion of certain medical records is up for debate, but this is one of the things that can actually be accomplished legally with an EO. The Brady bill requires certain things to be checked during a NICS check, but not every state plays along and feeds them all the data they request. An EO might work its way toward fixing that without actually violating the Constitution.

Probability of Introduction: 95%
Probability of Enactment: 95%

“High Capacity” Magazine Ban
While an actual AWB might be out of the picture, there’s no doubt that politicians are looking for bits and pieces that they can vote for without enacting the whole bloody mess. One of the ideas that has taken hold is a “high capacity” magazine ban, probably stopping the manufacture of magazines over 10 rounds and restricting sales of existing mags. In order for it to pass I think it needs a grandfather clause (to get the “Gun Culture 1.0″ politicians on board) and possibly a sunset provision, but that much is anyone’s guess.

Probability of Introduction: 90%
Probability of Enactment: 60%

Stopping Mail Order Ammo
Interstate commerce is what Congress is supposed to regulate, and the biggest commercial part of firearms is the ammunition, not the guns themselves. Stopping interstate sales directly to citizens is possible, but only through an act of Congress. I think one of the things working against this is that it was already tried and failed miserably.

Probability of Introduction: 70%
Probability of Enactment: 40%

Stopping Private Sales
Like I said, interstate commerce is the hook that Congress uses to pass their laws. All other non-constitutional duties are reserved to the states. I can see how they would craft the language, but the precedent of one or two states that have already given the middle finger to Federal control of things that start and stay within state lines puts a huge damper on this one.

Probability of Introduction: 50%
Probability of Enactment: 20%

Firearms Registry
It’s absolutely illegal under FOPA, but that doesn’t mean Congress doesn’t have the ability to change their mind. This is something I see the NRA and pro-2A politicians going to the mat over, especially armed with Canada’s recent scrapping of their own failed registry.

Probability of Introduction: 40%
Probability of Enactment: 10%

Neutered Assault Weapons Ban
I’ll get to DiFi’s impossible dream in a minute, but what is slightly more possible is a wholesale reinstatement of the old AWB. Its already been done, so politicians see some cover in that fact. Plus, a sunset provision would help to ease some Congresscritters off the fence. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still political suicide for the Dems in the midterm elections and all but guarantees a Republican president next time, but it’s a possibility. Not a good one, though.

Probability of Introduction: 35%
Probability of Enactment: 10%

Feinstein’s “Nuclear Option” AWB
Uh, yeah. Even some Democrats are calling it insane. The reason for the proposed legislation was to move the Overton Window (no, I don’t watch Glen Beck, the phrase pre-dates his book) further to their side. By pinning the top of the conversation so high, it allows for the possibility of something more substantial than anyone originally wanted to happen instead. But there’s no way in hell it actually makes it to the President’s desk.
Probability of Introduction: 100%
Probability of Enactment: 0%"
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Old 01-13-2013, 15:51   #123
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Tellin' it like it is!!!

Eric for president! RILLY!!

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Good grief. If I hear one person say 'Well, it is over', before it has even properly begun, I am going to kick someone's cat. Nothing has been decided. Hell, nothing has really even been proposed yet. Perhaps we can wait to yelp and gnash our teeth until something of substance has actually happened.

We are NOT simply a bunch of children waiting for daddy to punish us for some transgression. Aside from the fact that we have done nothing wrong, we are adult Americans with rights and with a considerable amount of political juice on our side. We also, every one of us, have some muscle of our own to flex. Write letters. Let your political officials know how one of their voters feel and DON'T do it with a form letter. If you were in their place, would you bother to read a form letter? Tell them how you feel, in your own words.

Let's not abandon the ship just yet.
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:30   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthpawG26 View Post
I found this enlightening on what's to be expected in the short term:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...l-legislation/

"There are a bunch of proposals floating around right now about increased (or even decreased) gun control, and with the post-Sandy Hook shooting emotional response just about over there’s an even more concerted push to get “something” done before the window closes again. Sure, Piers Morgan and the like are trying to keep the story alive and keep driving towards a shredding of the second amendment, but there’s only so much the political climate (and Americans’ attention span) can support. So while the rest of the crew is in transit to LAS, I thought I’d do some handicapping of the possibilities . . .
Just a quick note here. While I’m a fully trained risk analyst and used to do stuff like this for a living for DHS, none of this is particularly scientific. What you’re getting is my “gut feeling” rather than any hard and fast math. Mainly because hard and fast math is pretty much useless for this kind of thing. I’m going to try to rank them in order of risk of passage, based on likelihood of introduction and probability of enactment.

Increased Scrutiny with NICS Checks
There’s no doubt that one of the things Biden is going to propose on Tuesday is an executive order to “toughen” background checks. Whether that involves increased or mandatory inclusion of certain medical records is up for debate, but this is one of the things that can actually be accomplished legally with an EO. The Brady bill requires certain things to be checked during a NICS check, but not every state plays along and feeds them all the data they request. An EO might work its way toward fixing that without actually violating the Constitution.

Probability of Introduction: 95%
Probability of Enactment: 95%

“High Capacity” Magazine Ban
While an actual AWB might be out of the picture, there’s no doubt that politicians are looking for bits and pieces that they can vote for without enacting the whole bloody mess. One of the ideas that has taken hold is a “high capacity” magazine ban, probably stopping the manufacture of magazines over 10 rounds and restricting sales of existing mags. In order for it to pass I think it needs a grandfather clause (to get the “Gun Culture 1.0″ politicians on board) and possibly a sunset provision, but that much is anyone’s guess.

Probability of Introduction: 90%
Probability of Enactment: 60%

Stopping Mail Order Ammo
Interstate commerce is what Congress is supposed to regulate, and the biggest commercial part of firearms is the ammunition, not the guns themselves. Stopping interstate sales directly to citizens is possible, but only through an act of Congress. I think one of the things working against this is that it was already tried and failed miserably.

Probability of Introduction: 70%
Probability of Enactment: 40%

Stopping Private Sales
Like I said, interstate commerce is the hook that Congress uses to pass their laws. All other non-constitutional duties are reserved to the states. I can see how they would craft the language, but the precedent of one or two states that have already given the middle finger to Federal control of things that start and stay within state lines puts a huge damper on this one.

Probability of Introduction: 50%
Probability of Enactment: 20%

Firearms Registry
It’s absolutely illegal under FOPA, but that doesn’t mean Congress doesn’t have the ability to change their mind. This is something I see the NRA and pro-2A politicians going to the mat over, especially armed with Canada’s recent scrapping of their own failed registry.

Probability of Introduction: 40%
Probability of Enactment: 10%

Neutered Assault Weapons Ban
I’ll get to DiFi’s impossible dream in a minute, but what is slightly more possible is a wholesale reinstatement of the old AWB. Its already been done, so politicians see some cover in that fact. Plus, a sunset provision would help to ease some Congresscritters off the fence. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still political suicide for the Dems in the midterm elections and all but guarantees a Republican president next time, but it’s a possibility. Not a good one, though.

Probability of Introduction: 35%
Probability of Enactment: 10%

Feinstein’s “Nuclear Option” AWB
Uh, yeah. Even some Democrats are calling it insane. The reason for the proposed legislation was to move the Overton Window (no, I don’t watch Glen Beck, the phrase pre-dates his book) further to their side. By pinning the top of the conversation so high, it allows for the possibility of something more substantial than anyone originally wanted to happen instead. But there’s no way in hell it actually makes it to the President’s desk.
Probability of Introduction: 100%
Probability of Enactment: 0%"
I hear you, and my brain is telling me the same thing yours seems to be telling you. They will try for a lot, and get little. But that is a rational and well thought out conclusion in a dynamic and irrational time.

I've seen enough unlikely things get through in the last 5 years, that I wouldn't put all my eggs in any one basket, especially with some Republicans folding like ex-ballerina prostitutes.

The only guarantee I can give is that it will be an interesting ride.
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Old 01-13-2013, 19:41   #125
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Kick all the cats you want; I hate cats.

If you don't think that this government is hellbent on sealing this forever, I'd love to have a pint - or a truckload - of whatever you're having.

Further, to think that politicians give a red cent about what we citizens want is nothing short of naive.

But kudos on being an optimist.
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