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Old 01-09-2013, 17:35   #51
Silenced G32
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Originally Posted by Eric View Post
Good grief. If I hear one person say 'Well, it is over', before it has even properly begun, I am going to kick someone's cat. Nothing has been decided. Hell, nothing has really even been proposed yet. Perhaps we can wait to yelp and gnash our teeth until something of substance has actually happened.

We are NOT simply a bunch of children waiting for daddy to punish us for some transgression. Aside from the fact that we have done nothing wrong, we are adult Americans with rights and with a considerable amount of political juice on our side. We also, every one of us, have some muscle of our own to flex. Write letters. Let your political officials know how one of their voters feel and DON'T do it with a form letter. If you were in their place, would you bother to read a form letter? Tell them how you feel, in your own words.

Let's not abandon the ship just yet.
How old are you?

I would also love to know what state you reside in....


Yeah, I know, you owm the place.
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Old 01-09-2013, 17:35   #52
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Good point, it's true that Obama may be in "nothing to lose" mode in his second term, but there are a whole lot of democrats (and Republicans) that are worried about re-election. The post-94 elections are not forgotten....
I don't think dems forgot the '94 lesson. They believe the BHO magic will be able to carry the election cycle. After all who doesn't believe the COOL BLACK DUDE.
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Old 01-09-2013, 17:40   #53
Silenced G32
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The future elections don't matter. The moochers and leeches control things now. They out-number the producers.
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Old 01-09-2013, 17:43   #54
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The battle has begun. They should pass a law saying whoever voted for Obama should be required to turn in their weapons.

WHAT HE SAID...
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Old 01-09-2013, 17:50   #55
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The future elections don't matter. The moochers and leeches control things now. They out-number the producers.
While I advocate contacting your reps and have posted my letter sent my own reps, I agree with your assertion. I've repeatedly stated that this past election was the transition of this nation.

Our gov't cannot resist the urge to grow. They have succeeded in creating a majority of dependents who vote. Until the hosts stop giving or have no more to give, the parasites will continue to elect those who are going to consume more from the hosts.

With all that, back on topic. This is not the first time that the WH has cited EO as a possible option. They obviously have some ideas on how an executive order could help achieve their desired result. I don't know what trick they have up their sleeves; however I'm confident that they believe they might have found one. There is no benefit to them touting this option and or trying it, if they know that it will only fail the subsequent scrutiny.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:05   #56
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Originally Posted by Silenced G32 View Post
How old are you?

I would also love to know what state you reside in....


Yeah, I know, you owm the place.
I am 45 and I live in Texas. Eric
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:12   #57
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Has anyone seen the videos made by Amidst The Noise on youtube? Not sure what your thoughts are but I actually like the videos made a great deal and respect the clarity in how he expresses his thoughts. Might be old news but if you have not watched this do so and if you feel it is worth others seeing share it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa98...ature=youtu.be

Then check this one out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2riO...ature=youtu.be

I think Eric hit the head of the nail with a sledgehammer that fell out of a plane near orbit to be honest. We need to get organized and we need to put good people in front to represent us and not loud mouthed lunatics so we do not continue a perception that gun owners are idiots or crazy or both.
+1

I have seen these videos and I agree, well spoken and delivered. We need more words from level headed people like this. The loud mouths like Alex Jones is terribly hurting our cause. we end up being the poster child for the gun-grabbers. "Look what psycho lunatics the gun owners are..."

In a debate such as gun control vs gun rights a level head and well thought out arguments are the way to go. The first one to lose his temper is the one who loses credibility especially to the level displayed by Alex Jones v Piers Morgan..

Support and pass around the positive voices of reason of our cause.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:32   #58
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If the administration is already talking EO then it just means that the "conversation on gun violence" isn't going as well as they hoped.
This.

It is a very odd attempt at leverage. It is entirely possible Biden went a little far off script, it tends to happen all the time.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:34   #59
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That is not the part that makes me sick, it is that so many Americans were stupid enough to put them in the seats they hold.../shakes head and punches a kitten....
I agree with you......... Many Americans were very stupid.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:37   #60
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
A quick copy and paste:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

So, best we can tell, the President's executive order authority does not extend to making new laws - he has to be carrying out a constitutional duty or a congressionally enacted law.
Thank you for the research.

Now what if a sitting president wanted to challenge this precedent? My guess is that he would basically make whatever executive orders that he intends to make, (possibly making them as ambiquous as possible, open to interpretation so to speak), and let the lawsuits fly. The intent of the executive order, it will then be argued, is not to create new law but to expand on existing ones, or something to that effect. It may also be argued that it is a constitutional duty of the president to assure the "right" to be free of gun violence, under the life liberty and pursuit of happiness bit, thereby trumping the rights mentioned specifically in the second amendment.

On a side note, can he accomplish some of his end goals by merely ordering the BATF to change direction in a few key areas?

He may also decide to have the AG move toward re-opening the lead ammo can of worms, as I mentioned in the other thread. This would put prices through the roof, essentially limiting the use of firearms to those in the "Have" group as opposed to the "Have Nots", further dividing the gun community.

As they have said themselves, all options are on the table, and I believe they are exploring all of these avenues.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:40   #61
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From my understanding, the president cannot sign an Executive Order to ban guns. He can't sign an Executive Order to create a law only to enforce existing laws. Some Supreme Court decisions about EOs over the years prevent this all from happening. Apparently Biden doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:45   #62
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From my understanding, the president cannot sign an Executive Order to ban guns. He can't sign an Executive Order to create a law only to enforce existing laws. Some Supreme Court decisions about EOs over the years prevent this all from happening. Apparently Biden doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Supreme court decisions have been challenged before.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:46   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
A quick copy and paste:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

So, best we can tell, the President's executive order authority does not extend to making new laws - he has to be carrying out a constitutional duty or a congressionally enacted law.
Interesting. Especially in the light of EO 9066 which effectively suspended a few Constitutionally guaranteed rights of American citizens "for the security of the nation".

Fight like hell for our rights. Never, ever give up. Never count on the "checks and balances" to fight for you.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:51   #64
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Now is the time! But it needs to be more than us members here. Get your Dad, cousins, sisters, neighbors to call or write. Hell, write a letter for them, have them sign it and stick in the mail for them! The Republicans must be made aware that we will accept NO compromises. It is they who can stop it.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:52   #65
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I hope y'all aren't depending on the Republicans to defend liberty.

They are silent.
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Old 01-09-2013, 19:24   #66
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I think Biden is just trying to get into office early.
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Old 01-09-2013, 19:36   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
A quick copy and paste:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

So, best we can tell, the President's executive order authority does not extend to making new laws - he has to be carrying out a constitutional duty or a congressionally enacted law.

http://www.mercurynews.com/politics-...xecutive-order
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Old 01-09-2013, 19:39   #68
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I posted this elsewhere, but there's nothing I know of that would prevent him from doing an EO that prevents any importing of ammunition, firearms, and accessories. That's just one example of an EO that doesn't create a law, but helps him further his goal of disarming citizens.
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Old 01-09-2013, 19:45   #69
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I hope y'all aren't depending on the Republicans to defend liberty.

They are silent.
Nah. I'm hoping Ron Paul stands up and does the right thing for us gun owners.
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Old 01-09-2013, 19:54   #70
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Originally Posted by NEVRL8T View Post
The title of that piece is "Obama can't do much on guns by executive order".

Great. But it should be amended to "Obama can't do much on guns by executive order unless he is willing to challenge a Supreme Court Precedent."

What has he got to lose? If it all goes down in flames he will still be glorified by his base for at least trying. And he's not worried about re-election.

Of course he won't try to ban firearms outright, but I think he will try to make some pretty sweeping changes. The thing I'm worried about is after he gets to appoint one more nominee to the SCOTUS. If after that there is another mass shooting, well then all bets are off.
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Old 01-09-2013, 19:57   #71
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Nah. I'm hoping Ron Paul stands up and does the right thing for us gun owners.
He isn't in office anymore.
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Old 01-09-2013, 19:59   #72
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Originally Posted by skorper View Post
The title of that piece is "Obama can't do much on guns by executive order".

Great. But it should be amended to "Obama can't do much on guns by executive order unless he is willing to challenge a Supreme Court Precedent."

What has he got to lose? If it all goes down in flames he will still be glorified by his base for at least trying. And he's not worried about re-election.

Of course he won't try to ban firearms outright, but I think he will try to make some pretty sweeping changes. The thing I'm worried about is after he gets to appoint one more nominee to the SCOTUS. If after that there is another mass shooting, well then all bets are off.

I keep hearing about how Obama doesn't have to worry about re-election, but he is one man. All those democrats around him are probably hoping for continued employment. When it comes right down to it, how many of them are really going to jump off a cliff on Obama's behalf? Does anyone really think that the Democratic Party is going to cut itself, to insure Obama's legacy? Eric
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Old 01-09-2013, 19:59   #73
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Nah. I'm hoping Ron Paul stands up and does the right thing for us gun owners.
and that would be what exactly (for Dr. Paul) ?
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Old 01-09-2013, 20:03   #74
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I keep hearing about how Obama doesn't have to worry about re-election, but he is one man. All those democrats around him are probably hoping for continued employment. When it comes right down to it, how many of them are really going to jump off a cliff on Obama's behalf? Does anyone really think that the Democratic Party is going to cut itself, to insure Obama's legacy? Eric
Huh...what about ObamaCare? Americans didn't want it. It was horribly unpopular (and still is); yet the democratic party formed a line and followed their leader.
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Old 01-09-2013, 20:04   #75
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Huh...what about ObamaCare? Americans didn't want it. It was horribly unpopular (and still is); yet the democratic party formed a line and followed their leader.
And the how has the make up on Congress changed since then?
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