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Old 12-29-2012, 13:08   #76
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Originally Posted by trifecta View Post
Officers in schools are great, but they weren't really put there to prevent or engage an external threat. They will certainly do that though, and I'm sure there is more focus on that this week. I saw a Superintendent quoted today in opposition to officers in schools because then there would be more bullets flying if something happened. I don't understand how someone with a PhD can be carrying around that much stupid in one body.

Our high schools have always had officers, this week they added them to the middle schools. I have a kid in elementary. I sent the vice principal a note, offering to be a uniformed presence sometimes when I am off and followed up with a visit. Staff told me to come anytime. I'm hoping to get a couple of other parents to do the same. It won't be perfect, but between us and the city guys doing close patrol when they can, it is a lot better than nothing.

It is hard to imagine anyone's child huddled in a corner with the teacher telling them they are loved because she wants that to be the last thing they hear before they are murdered.

That is funny in a horrible sort of way. You can cut the number of bullets flying in half if you prevent anyone from shooting back.

Of course, you now have more dead people, but it cut the number of bullets flying into the bad guy. Is this an improvement in safety?
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Old 12-29-2012, 13:29   #77
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Is anyone thinking about attacks on school buses. If the schools all have SRO and someone wants to hurt multiple kids they could stand at a school bus drop off point with a hidden pistol and enter/attack it when it stopped and the door was open. A person wouldn't look out of place standing by waiting for their kid to be dropped off.




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Old 12-29-2012, 17:40   #78
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Is anyone thinking about attacks on school buses. If the schools all have SRO and someone wants to hurt multiple kids they could stand at a school bus drop off point with a hidden pistol and enter/attack it when it stopped and the door was open. A person wouldn't look out of place standing by waiting for their kid to be dropped off.




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I've always been more concerned about sporting events. My wife's high school has 1900 kids and puts about 5000 in the stands under the Friday night lights. We also have bigger schools - 3000 to 5000 students - that are drawing close to 10,000 spectators on game night.

You could do some damage. Even with 6 armed officers on foot patrol at a football game the LE response would be pretty limited - think thousands of people running through the single entrance/exit and practically stampeding the responding officers.


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Old 12-29-2012, 23:03   #79
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One of the first capers I worked as a fresh rook was a gang shooting at a football game. It appears some young'uns wanted to impress the OG's and went to a local high school football game and popped off random shots at the crowd after the game when everyone was on the field.

Hit a cheerleader and one of the fathers. Luckily nobody died, but the father will carry that bullet in his leg forever because it was too close to the femoral artery for them to risk going after it.

Of course, that was a long time ago way before Columbine and it wasn't considered active shooter, but yeah, they made off before any response could be mustered even with us in the area. Now imagine with the new breed of idiots who are planning way more sophisticated attacks. We are way undermanned.
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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:20   #80
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Originally Posted by GRIMLET View Post
Is anyone thinking about attacks on school buses. If the schools all have SRO and someone wants to hurt multiple kids they could stand at a school bus drop off point with a hidden pistol and enter/attack it when it stopped and the door was open. A person wouldn't look out of place standing by waiting for their kid to be dropped off.
They had this in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avivim_school_bus_massacre
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Old 12-30-2012, 13:04   #81
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Meanwhile... notice... there are guns around Israeli kids and none of the kids are being magically killed by the gun when the gun owner is not bent on evil:

Cop Talk

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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
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Old 12-30-2012, 13:31   #82
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Yes but I don't want to live in Israel. Or anywhere resembling it.


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Old 12-30-2012, 18:22   #83
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Yes but I don't want to live in Israel. Or anywhere resembling it.


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But if it works, why not have it here?

We live in a fantasy bubble where we think just because we are America, we can do things the same way while the world changes around us and somehow, nothing will happen because we are Americans.

The fact is that our peaceful living and lifestyle is protected day and night endlessly by those who work behind the scenes seamlessly so that our society continues on its ignorantly blissful ways.

At some point, it becomes untenable to continue and people have to face reality that not everyone in the world, including those who are here domestically, want what's good for America. We need to face the threat face on, and that will be ugly, guaranteed, and perceptions of our society will be shattered. There's no other way.
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Old 12-30-2012, 18:41   #84
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Ok so amidst all this adjusting to change stuff, is Israel a better place to live than the USA?


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Old 12-30-2012, 18:48   #85
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Ok so amidst all this adjusting to change stuff, is Israel a better place to live than the USA?


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Let's ask the parents of those kids in Newtown or any parent of any kid who was hurt or killed in a school shooting... or ask the victims... but you can't because they are all DEAD.

I'm not saying we become Israel, not at all, but we are under constant attack, make no mistake about it. If other countries have successfully adopted methods to curtail or reduce the danger, what's wrong with us taking a look at it?

We can still be American... but adopt other things which work around the country. We do it all the time, after all, taking innovations from the whole world to make this country the greatest on Earth.

Heck, here's a novel idea, let's also adopt the immigration laws and policies of Mexico, since they are always lecturing us on ours. I'm all for that.
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Old 12-30-2012, 19:20   #86
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Old 12-30-2012, 20:35   #87
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Are Israeli schools less violent?


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Old 12-31-2012, 00:16   #88
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With the exception of the the 2011-2012 school year, I worked at my old high school since 2002. Every high school in the city and almost every other district in the county has an SRO in the high schools. Besides me, there was the assigned SRO and 3 other city officers who rotated in on their off days at the school. I hung up my badge and bat belt this past April and don't miss the action(ok, a little maybe). Changes in administration at the school/district level degraded the work environment and it got to the point that the SRO finally had enough and bid to a detective position. The school has since gone down hill as the remaining long time officers also left.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:39   #89
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Are Israeli schools less violent?


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Couldn't tell ya, but I bet you they probably don't have the same drug and gang problems we do in our schools and they probably don't disrespect their teachers the same way some of our students do and I have never heard of an Israeli shooting up an Israeli school.
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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:07   #90
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Ok so amidst all this adjusting to change stuff, is Israel a better place to live than the USA?


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The difference is that Israelis know the world is a violent place and believe that violence could come knocking on their door at any time. We here in America think the world is a great place with roses and "how could that happen" is always stated after violence comes knocking on the door.

America's perception toward the real world is skewed. That is really the problem.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:43   #91
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Quote:
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The difference is that Israelis know the world is a violent place and believe that violence could come knocking on their door at any time. We here in America think the world is a great place with roses and "how could that happen" is always stated after violence comes knocking on the door.

America's perception toward the real world is skewed. That is really the problem.
That's it, in a nutshell. It amazes me just how people could be so blissfully ignorant of the real world around them, and yet it seems that they are the VAST majority of this country. It's like this country is blindly going down the path to it's demise, and most everyone has their head in the sand (or other places....) and not bothering to look up and see if their perception even closely resembles reality. Those that do look out and try to warn are told to sit down and shut up, you're paranoid.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:05   #92
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The difference is that Israelis know the world is a violent place and believe that violence could come knocking on their door at any time. We here in America think the world is a great place with roses and "how could that happen" is always stated after violence comes knocking on the door.

America's perception toward the real world is skewed. That is really the problem.
You didn't answer the question. I asked if Israel is a better place to live. I'm betting not. I'm betting you realize this too which is why you didn't answer.

I have no problem looking at countries to emulate as a means of solving some of our problems. But let's maybe emulate one that isn't basically under militant control by the government and isn't under constant REAL fear of daily rocket attacks. I've never seen video of Israel and thought "gee willickers that's where I want to live..."

That's all I'm sayin.

I have no hesitation accepting that America has its head up its own butt. But let's work toward a better place and not toward becoming a third world country.


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Old 12-31-2012, 05:06   #93
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That's it, in a nutshell. It amazes me just how people could be so blissfully ignorant of the real world around them, and yet it seems that they are the VAST majority of this country. It's like this country is blindly going down the path to it's demise, and most everyone has their head in the sand (or other places....) and not bothering to look up and see if their perception even closely resembles reality. Those that do look out and try to warn are told to sit down and shut up, you're paranoid.
Quit being so par.....I mean, scared for no reason.


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Old 12-31-2012, 05:28   #94
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Quote:
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Quit being so par.....I mean, scared for no reason.


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Old 12-31-2012, 10:49   #95
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my county has a sro at every school in the county. they teach dare classes and provide security for the school
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:57   #96
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You didn't answer the question. I asked if Israel is a better place to live. I'm betting not. I'm betting you realize this too which is why you didn't answer.

I have no problem looking at countries to emulate as a means of solving some of our problems. But let's maybe emulate one that isn't basically under militant control by the government and isn't under constant REAL fear of daily rocket attacks. I've never seen video of Israel and thought "gee willickers that's where I want to live..."

That's all I'm sayin.

I have no hesitation accepting that America has its head up its own butt. But let's work toward a better place and not toward becoming a third world country.


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Would I move to Israel? Yes I would. They are one of the only countries in the world I respect. Why don't I? Because for better or worse, I love my country and will do what I can to ensure that I leave this country a better place for my children.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:20   #97
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With the exception of the the 2011-2012 school year, I worked at my old high school since 2002. Every high school in the city and almost every other district in the county has an SRO in the high schools. Besides me, there was the assigned SRO and 3 other city officers who rotated in on their off days at the school. I hung up my badge and bat belt this past April and don't miss the action(ok, a little maybe). Changes in administration at the school/district level degraded the work environment and it got to the point that the SRO finally had enough and bid to a detective position. The school has since gone down hill as the remaining long time officers also left.
acpd, my daughter is a high school administrator who has fought hard for balance between administration, teachers, support staff, students, and parents. Changes at the top usually disrupts any equilibrium that existed.

Could you go a little deeper into what changed and the resulting degradation?

Thanks
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:26   #98
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Yes but I don't want to live in Israel. Or anywhere resembling it.
I spent some time in Israel about 15 years ago. It's not what is portrayed on the nightly news. I enjoyed my time there and grew to greatly respect the Israelis, and their no nonsense approach to things.

I think we would be a much better country if we resembled Israel in a lot of ways.



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Old 01-01-2013, 07:37   #99
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I asked if Israel is a better place to live.
That's not a fair question. I live in Texas. There's obviously no better place to live...

Quote:
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But let's maybe emulate one that isn't basically under militant control by the government and isn't under constant REAL fear of daily rocket attacks. I've never seen video of Israel and thought "gee willickers that's where I want to live..."
It's not like that in real life. It's really not.

There is one small part under conflict, and more people are killed in Chicago.

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But let's work toward a better place and not toward becoming a third world country.
That's a bit unfair. Israel is NOT a third world country. I've also been to third world countries. It is actually a beautiful country, populated by good people.




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Old 01-01-2013, 09:22   #100
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I wouldn't suggest emulating Chicago either.


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