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Old 12-27-2012, 22:49   #26
ithaca_deerslayer
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The natural (us) cannot know the supernatural (god).

But if there was a god (might be, I'm only an agnostic, not one of those dirty athiests), it would be nice if he came down here (I assume he'd otherwise be up in the sky somewhere) in the form of Charlton Heston as Moses, and hover over us and say he (god, not Heston) screwed up a few things and was going to fix them in the next month, and make things better over the future years. He could give us a list, and we'd see his promises start to come true over the next few days or a month and really notice the change:

1. No more cancer for kids. Old guys past 50 could still get it if they did not live their life right, but no more of that crap for 5 year olds.

2. End of overpopulation. People will have lots of sex, but use birth control and eventually bring the world population down (will take years to notice).

3. No more wars. People will decide to get along, have a beer, and stop shooting over their differences.

4. AR's stay legal. Even though people get along better, target shooting is still fun.

5. Global warming stops. Because snow is fun

6. Freaking toothaches don't hurt quite so much. I get that the pain warns us to stop opening beer bottles with our teeth, but does it have to hurt so much?

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Old 12-27-2012, 23:09   #27
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It's possible that something that should convince me, would only make me question my sanity.
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Old 12-28-2012, 00:09   #28
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It's possible that something that should convince me, would only make me question my sanity.
This is so true!!!

I'd also like a nice long sit down talk with him, maybe a few beers, or wine if he prefers. Some of the subjects I would broach:

Why, exactly, is he worthy of reverence?

What was he trying to accomplish? Are we simply an experiment to feed his ego?

Why, if he loves us so, does he cause horrible things to happen to the most innocent among us?

Why is it that we even have free will, if using it to make a decision he doesn't like only results in punishment? Wouldn't it be simpler and easier for all concerned to simply provide incontrovertible proof so we can make informed decisions?

I'm sure those questions would evolve into a loooooong conversation and would create even more questions.
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Old 12-28-2012, 00:18   #29
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God would have to show up on Earth, preform miracles, know everything about you without ever having met you, etc...

You know, things that have never happened on Earth.

At least since any semblance of scientific thought that is..


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Old 12-28-2012, 00:31   #30
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Ya know...there have been times that I have begged, pleaded and prayed to "god?" in particularly rough patches of my life (akin to how prisoners find god in jail and promptly forget him when released) to show me a sign, show me he exists, speak to me in a dream etc..and what did I get?

ZIP

I truly would like to believe in a higher being, a god...whatever, I really, really do.. I think life would be grand, actually believing I was going somewhere magical when I died.. Heck, if that's the case, and I believe that, LET'S GET IT ON..I'm ready to die now!

However...I just don't buy it...

It simply isn't logical.. So many thousands of different religions can't all be right...and some differ so much, they're not even close..

I think they're all made-up..and some people (maybe most) are wired to want to believe in something...just like those that believe with their soul (another mythical, invisible thing) that ghosts, martians, black panthers and bigfeet exist too..

I do believe that churches have served a good purpose in teaching good moral values, (not enough to outweigh the millions killed in the name of imaginary friends) but at least the ones in the US teach respect and love your fellow man unlike Islam which teaches you to behead your fellow man..

I'm willing to listen to arguments as to how god exists etc...as I WOULD LOVE to believe..and I'm not being funny, I would love to have the religious convictions of some of my friends who took the hook, line, sinker and the pole too, as they are genuinely good people..

I just can't take them too seriously when they tell me they believe the Jonah and the whale story literally, as well as Noah and the Ark...really I say?

And then there are those who say they don't believe the stories literally and pick and choose which ones to believe literally and say the rest are symbolic...they have even less credibility..

Last edited by LAWDOGKMS; 12-28-2012 at 07:32..
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:49   #31
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[QUOTE=JBnTX;19786028]This is for the atheists that infest this forum./QUOTE]

Why use such a pejorative verb? Is it just because they don't believe as you do? It's a forum not a caucus.




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Old 12-28-2012, 18:31   #32
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I'd have to be presented with 10 dead relatives (including my parents) to explain what Heaven or Hell is really like.

I, personally, have never been reunited with someone who's died. It's my opinion that once you're gone, you're gone.
.
I *think* this would probably do it for me as well, since no one that is dead and decomposed has ever come back to life before. Having them describe the afterlife would be a great benefit in helping the believability of it.

The problem I might have though is the quote from Arthur C Clark, where he said, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

How do I know this entity that came down here and performed these tasks that are beyond my grasp isn't just some super advanced race that is pretending to play god?

Maybe I would just go along the lines of what the supreme court said about porn, which is I'll know it when I see it.
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Old 12-28-2012, 21:36   #33
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[quote=elsielover;19790611]
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
This is for the atheists that infest this forum./QUOTE]

Why use such a pejorative verb? Is it just because they don't believe as you do? It's a forum not a caucus.

Please understand that I'm being as nice as I can to atheists.
If you only knew the effort I expend in restraining myself.
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Old 12-28-2012, 21:55   #34
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[quote=JBnTX;19792012]
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Originally Posted by elsielover View Post


Please understand that I'm being as nice as I can to atheists.
If you only knew the effort I expend in restraining myself.

And you do such a fine job of it too.

Bravo!
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Old 12-28-2012, 23:26   #35
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[quote=JBnTX;19792012]
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Originally Posted by elsielover View Post


Please understand that I'm being as nice as I can to atheists.
If you only knew the effort I expend in restraining myself.
We are oh so thankful.
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Old 12-28-2012, 23:27   #36
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Hell, I can do that.
We should all start praying to you then.
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Old 12-28-2012, 23:50   #37
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Lets start with a birth certificate with a raised seal...
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:42   #38
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If God could convince the fundie folks they're wrong about creationism and a 10,000 year old Earth, that'd go a long way toward proving God exists and is capable of miracles beyond the reach of modern physics.

Randy
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:27   #39
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If God could convince the fundie folks they're wrong about creationism and a 10,000 year old Earth, that'd go a long way toward proving God exists and is capable of miracles beyond the reach of modern physics.

Randy
Why would God lie to his believers?

...And just to clear things up.

It's the present surface of the Earth that's about 10,000 years old, not the entire Earth.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:34   #40
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...And just to clear things up.

It's the present surface of the Earth that's about 10,000 years old, not the entire Earth.
Oh? Do tell...
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:01   #41
Altaris
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...And just to clear things up.

It's the present surface of the Earth that's about 10,000 years old, not the entire Earth.


What a nice way to try to shove the young earth fiction into the scientific data that already shows how old the planet really is.

So how deep do you have to go in your earth to go from the 'surface' to the rest of the earth? 10ft, 100ft, 1mile, etc?? How old then is the earth that is underneath the surface? If only the surface is that young, do you have a single shred of evidence to back up that claim?
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:42   #42
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It's the present surface of the Earth that's about 10,000 years old, not the entire Earth.
This is JB, making it up as he goes along ....
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:23   #43
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I'd tell him I have a few questions to ask but I don't want him to answer. I want the answers to come from a 5 inch high talking unicorn that he is going to make appear in the palm of my hand.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:17   #44
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Originally Posted by Gunhaver View Post

Oh? Do tell...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altaris View Post


If only the surface is that young, do you have a single shred of evidence to back up that claim?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japle View Post

This is JB, making it up as he goes along ....

The flood of Noah washed the surface of the Earth clean about 6,000 to 10,000 years ago. Then life started over.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:22   #45
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Scientific evidence.

You can google "scientific method" if you don't know what that is. But the "faith" stuff just doesn't cut it.

I continue to be amazed that people believe in the fairy tales of the different religions. Each religion has its own stories. Oh, yours is correct and the other ones are all wrong. Why do you believe that? Because of your parents/society. They told you that, and you believed it.

Suckers....sorry, but it is true.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:38   #46
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Each religion has its own stories. Oh, yours is correct and the other ones are all wrong. Why do you believe that? .

The Abrahamic religions are just variations of a central theme that focus's on one supreme God that created everything. They're not that different, just different interpretations.
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Old 12-29-2012, 13:03   #47
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The Abrahamic religions are just variations of a central theme that focus's on one supreme God that created everything. They're not that different, just different interpretations.
So why not just be a Muslim or a Jew or even a Mormon if they're all the same? Do all of those believers get to go to the same heaven that you do?
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Old 12-29-2012, 13:43   #48
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The flood of Noah washed the surface of the Earth clean about 6,000 to 10,000 years ago. Then life started over.
Yes because we all know it was prefect logical to house a pair of every animal on Earth and have enough food to feed them for the months that they were just floating around.


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Old 12-29-2012, 14:07   #49
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Originally Posted by JBnTX:
The flood of Noah washed the surface of the Earth clean about 6,000 to 10,000 years ago. Then life started over.
"Clean", it seems, means "right down to the bedrock". No life. No animals. No plants.

Funny thing, though:

10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.


So, JB, if you're not just making this up, where did the dove find the olive leaf?
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Old 12-29-2012, 14:20   #50
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"Clean", it seems, means "right down to the bedrock". No life. No animals. No plants.

Funny thing, though:

10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.


So, JB, if you're not just making this up, where did the dove find the olive leaf?
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