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Old 12-28-2012, 14:27   #76
Kingarthurhk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
If you think driving home after 3 glasses of wine is the same thing as firing a gun indiscriminately you really shouldn't own a gun.

As for the penalty for killing someone with a car, if it was intentional you are correct.
No, but a wino like you shouldn't own a car. If you get buzzed on wine and go hit and kill someone with your car, I view that as intentional.
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Old 12-28-2012, 14:30   #77
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
No, but a wino like you shouldn't own a car. If you get buzzed on wine and go hit and kill someone with your car, I view that as intentional.
I'm a wino? I rarely drink. I never drink and drive. Not even one drink.

But I do drive sleepy sometimes.
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Old 12-28-2012, 14:31   #78
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Or if ones tell them, " No" your daughter, wife, sister, aunt, cannot have an abortion...ahhh the gnashing of teeth


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Exactly. If they were stopping everyone looking for guns think of the uproar.
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Old 12-28-2012, 14:35   #79
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
Now, I'm against checkpoints in general. By my luck of the draw I've never met an honest cop at any of them. Like 'em or not sometimes you have to tip your hat.

I really dig where refusing to take a breathalyzer equals enough probable cause for a judge to sign a warrant giving them permission to take your blood by force. That is pimp.

http://www.wwltv.com/news/Holiday-DW...184986081.html

NEW ORLEANS -- "Drive sober or get pulled over." Louisiana State Police are backing up that slogan with action in the form of DWI checkpoints across the state during the ramp up to New Years Eve.

Checkpoints were scheduled in Terrebonne and Tangipahoa parishes Thursday night.

"We will have additional state police troopers that will be at the checkpoints," said Trooper Melissa Matey. "We'll also be working with other area law enforcement agencies that will assist on those checkpoints."

Many of the DWI checkpoints across the state across the state will be no refusal. That means law enforcement will be able quickly get a search warrant to take a blood sample from a suspected drunk driver who refuses to take a breathalyzer test.

"We produce a search warrant for the judge to sign showing that we have probable cause," said Matey. "Once the judge signs that warrant, then at that point we're able to take blood from that individual."

The Louisiana ACLU opposes the no-refusal policy.

"Of course, everybody has an obligation not to drive impaired and potentially harm someone else," said LA ACLU Executive Director Marjorie Esman. "The question is whether this is an appropriate use of governmental power to take people's blood without their consent."

New Orleans, where more than a third of the fatal accidents are alcohol related, has yet to implement no refusal. But the city's top cop says the practice has merit.

"It's being done by virtually all the parishes in the state and we're looking at for our city," said NOPD Superintendent Ronal Serpas. "What it does, it further incentivizes you, under the implied consent law, to take the breath test."

Serpas said all of his traffic officers, including the motorcycle patrol are engaged in DWI enforcement during the holiday season.

State police in Troop B who patrol the New Orleans area are expected to set up a DWI checkpoint sometime during the four day New Year's Eve weekend.
Do they publish in the newspaper where they are setting up their checkpoints? In my county in Florida (perhaps all counties) they publish exactly where and what times they are conducting DUI stops. So all you need to do is read the paper or look on the paper's website and take another street home. Why? Because their attorney said that was the only way they could be legal.

Last edited by The Fed; 12-28-2012 at 14:36..
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Old 12-28-2012, 14:39   #80
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
I'm a wino? I rarely drink. I never drink and drive. Not even one drink.

But I do drive sleepy sometimes.
Really? You just said you drink three glasses of wine and get behind the wheel. Which is it?

Even when I was a drinker: I either staggered on home, had a designated driver, or got a taxi. Those were all choices. Getting behind the wheel after drinking is also a choice.

They built a Benigans, right across the University I was at, back when they were cool. On Saint Patrick's Day the band was on the roof, the local police were all there, and the DWI trucks were in the parking lot.

Those guys were laid back, and just making sure no one drove off drunk. I remember having a nice conversation with one of the guys ending in a fist bump. These guys aren't the boogie men. They are just doing a job, and doing it within the confines of the law and civil liberties.

Imagining that you cannot have your state issued licensing inspected and considered is not even logical.

Try not having some random person not look at your ID before you get into a club. But, if you are as old I am, no one bothers me much. Too much grey I guess.
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Old 12-28-2012, 14:39   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fed View Post
Do they publish in the newspaper where they are setting up their checkpoints? In my county in Florida (perhaps all counties) they publish exactly where and what times they are conducting DUI stops. So all you need to do is read the paper or look on the paper's website and take another street home. Why? Because their attorney said that was the only way they could be legal.
They don't announce specific roads.
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Old 12-28-2012, 14:40   #82
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If EVERYONE refused they would waste a lot of time and money getting warrants and doing blood tests.

The damn politicians think that they RULE over us instead of representing us.
Just speaking for NJ:

There is implied consent in this state if you drive a car.

If I have reasonable suspicion that you're DWI, I'm going to detain you for further testing and observation (100% legal).

Even if you feel you are smarter than everyone else (including cops), and play games about doing roadside testing (I have actually let people go after this), I have had enough training and experience to determine and articulate probable cause to place you under arrest.

Once under arrest for DWI, I can do a limited passenger area search. Unless one of the exemptions in the state AG guideline's is triggered, it is highly likely that your car will be subject to a mandatory impound and an inventory search will be done.

If you then refuse the breath test, I'm also going to process you and issue you a summons for Refusal. I'm not going to spend any time getting a warrant. In addition to Refusal, you will also be issued a summons for DWI. I have had convictions on DWI on observation only when drivers refused and had them convicted for both DWI and Refusal, that will get you double the penalty. Often a plea will be made to merge the DWI if you plead guilty to the refusal but it will still get you a 6 month loss of license and fines.

If you're over the limit, it's your right to challenge the results in court on a technicality. If you're borderline, you can always try to plea bargin a lesser penalty. There is no right to refuse. You refuse and you get convicted, you're subject to all the same penalties as a DWI. The only difference is if you're arrested for DWI in the future, without an actual "DWI" conviction on your record, you're not subject to enhanced penalties.
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Old 12-28-2012, 14:41   #83
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Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
Thats the prevailing attitude on Glocktalk. Most of these posters are VERY anti-liberty. They're just pro-2A.
You are 100% correct. But they sure will tell you about how much they are for liberty.

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But, it's not all about you.
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Old 12-28-2012, 14:42   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
Really? You just said you drink three glasses of wine and get behind the wheel. Which is it?
Where did I say that?

Quote:
Imagining that you cannot have your state issued licensing inspected and considered is not even logical.
Drivers licenses are pretty silly. They give one to anyone with a pulse. People still drive when they're suspended. What's the point?

Quote:
Try not having some random person not look at your ID before you get into a club. But, if you are as old I am, no one bothers me much. Too much grey I guess.
I don't go to clubs.
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Old 12-28-2012, 14:46   #85
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Originally Posted by Officer X View Post
Even if you feel you are smarter than everyone else (including cops), and play games about doing roadside testing (I have actually let people go after this), I have had enough training and experience to determine and articulate probable cause to place you under arrest.
hopefully someone you have arrested finds this post where you admit fabricating probable cause.
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Old 12-28-2012, 14:47   #86
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Originally Posted by The Fed View Post
Do they publish in the newspaper where they are setting up their checkpoints? In my county in Florida (perhaps all counties) they publish exactly where and what times they are conducting DUI stops. So all you need to do is read the paper or look on the paper's website and take another street home. Why? Because their attorney said that was the only way they could be legal.
The court case decision and the Kirk Guidelines only stipulate that the roadblock has to be publically announced. It does not mandate any further action. If your local LE agency wants to include details, that's on them.

Our agency just puts an ad out which will be something like: "During the month of July, the ---- Police Department will be conducting sobriety check points on the township's roadways".

Our department attorney and county Prosecutor's Office has advised this is acceptable and within the guidelines for public notification. For all the challenges that have been done by defense attorneys, notification had never been one of them.
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Old 12-28-2012, 14:48   #87
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hopefully someone you have arrested finds this post where you admit fabricating probable cause.
Where did I say I fabricate PC?

ETA:

You have made what I regard as a serious allegation. Please provided where I have ever said this.

Last edited by Officer X; 12-28-2012 at 14:59..
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:04   #88
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I read OfficerX post the same way.
He is basically saying he can make your life miserable and make it stick whether you are truly guilty or not.

I hope I never have the experience of meeting a policeman like him.
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:04   #89
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Originally Posted by w30olds View Post
I went through one of the GA State Patrol checkpoints last weekend. Let's just say they were not the most pleasant officers to deal with. I pull up and when it was my turn the first question was "How much have you had to drink?" Really??? Guess they automatically assume you've been in the sauce all day.

So I replied "1 Mountain Dew." Obviously it pissed off the cop. I was wearing my seatbelt, have valid ID and insurance. Not much they could do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
I'm just completely spitballing here, but perhaps standing out, likely where it's not too comfortable environment-wise (i.e. likely cold) for hours and hours on end hearing smart-ass comments like this one from dozens of drivers, MAYBE that what made them "not the most pleasant officers"? Possible? I've go through checkpoints and was polite to the officers and got polite back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer X View Post
Even if you feel you are smarter than everyone else (including cops), and play games about doing roadside testing (I have actually let people go after this), I have had enough training and experience to determine and articulate probable cause to place you.
The bold statement in the context of the thread and “playing games.”

So, in the English language, a paragraph is a group of sentences that are linked together to define a single point. Since you put “I have actually let people go” and “playing games” in a paragraph with “articulate probable cause to arrest you” they are linked together to form a single point. So, you have admitted to letting people go, which I suspect means that you found that they were not guilty, and tying that point together with probable cause. Likewise you have said “playing games” and linking that to probable cause. Furthermore, in the context of the thread, which some think the answer of “1 mountain dew” as a “smart-ass” answer to “how much have you had to drink” it is quite clear that if you don’t like how someone answers your question, you will fabricate probable cause.
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:13   #90
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Originally Posted by Officer X View Post
Just speaking for NJ:

There is implied consent in this state if you drive a car.

If I have reasonable suspicion that you're DWI, I'm going to detain you for further testing and observation (100% legal).

Even if you feel you are smarter than everyone else (including cops), and play games about doing roadside testing (I have actually let people go after this), I have had enough training and experience to determine and articulate probable cause to place you under arrest.

Once under arrest for DWI, I can do a limited passenger area search. Unless one of the exemptions in the state AG guideline's is triggered, it is highly likely that your car will be subject to a mandatory impound and an inventory search will be done.

If you then refuse the breath test, I'm also going to process you and issue you a summons for Refusal. I'm not going to spend any time getting a warrant. In addition to Refusal, you will also be issued a summons for DWI. I have had convictions on DWI on observation only when drivers refused and had them convicted for both DWI and Refusal, that will get you double the penalty. Often a plea will be made to merge the DWI if you plead guilty to the refusal but it will still get you a 6 month loss of license and fines.

If you're over the limit, it's your right to challenge the results in court on a technicality. If you're borderline, you can always try to plea bargin a lesser penalty. There is no right to refuse. You refuse and you get convicted, you're subject to all the same penalties as a DWI. The only difference is if you're arrested for DWI in the future, without an actual "DWI" conviction on your record, you're not subject to enhanced penalties.

Because you asked.
Context is everything and this post definetley sounds threatening.

and for the record. I have nothing against policemen. I've never been in trouble and been through probably 100 checkpoints. The county I lived in used them a lot and I had to drive on a major 2 way road to get to my house. They set up there almost once a weekend. I've never had a DWI. No axe to grind.

But your post is worrisome. (from a civilian perspective)

Last edited by Jonesee; 12-28-2012 at 15:24..
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:14   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer X View Post
Where did I say I fabricate PC?

ETA:

You have made what I regard as a serious allegation. Please provided where I have ever said this.
Uh oh! He regards it as a serious allegation!
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:17   #92
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Uh oh! He regards it as a serious allegation!
It is more serious of an allegation that someone is DWI when they in fact are not DWI?
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:17   #93
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For the reading impaired:

I have let people go who have cooprated where upon further testing, it was my belief that you were not, or I could not prove DWI. Those drivers were thanked for their cooperation and time, issued the appropriate summons or warning and sent on their way.

If someone wanted to "play games" and not cooperate or be a b-ll buster, If I had enough PC on my observations, I would articulate those in my report to testify in court. Just because someone doesn't want to cooperate doesn't mean you get a free pass.

To be clear :
Articulate-


adj.
1. Endowed with the power of speech.
2. Composed of distinct, meaningful syllables or words, as human speech.
3. Expressing oneself easily in clear and effective language: an articulate speaker.
4. Characterized by the use of clear, expressive language: an articulate essay.
5. Anatomy Consisting of sections united by joints; jointed.

Fabricate-


1. to make, build, or construct
2. to devise, invent, or concoct (a story, lie, etc.)
3. to fake or forge
[from Latin fabricāre to build, make, from fabrica workshop; see fabric]

It seems that you are using your own prejudice to twist my words to fit your definition.
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:18   #94
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Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
You realize the answers don't matter, right? Just like the question doesn't matter. They cop is doing 2 things: Trying to get you to talk so he can tell if there's alcohol on your breath, and trying to see if you break into a cold sweat and start to panic in the face of the question.

Tell him you've been at a bar - I do, all the time. I don't drink, but I hang out with friends. Tell him you were at Walmart. Tell him you were in the park practicing your cartwheels. He doesn't give a damn where you were.
Lol, nice. It's hard to put this into written word, and I know I come off sounding way more rude than I actually mean it.
I'm just a private person and figure it's no ones business what I'm doing.
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:18   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer X View Post
Where did I say I fabricate PC?

ETA:

You have made what I regard as a serious allegation. Please provided where I have ever said this.

Don't fall for it, they will spin your words and run with it. 20 posts from know it will look like a tornado hit a trailer park.

Anyone with common sense and a little real world experience who read that knows you were not saying you would fabricate anything. I took it as I am sure you meant it; you have enough training and experience to be able to prove a case against an impaired driver even if they a try to avoid the standardized field tests and chemical tests in an effort to outsmart the system.

The juries see right through it if the officer has the experience to explain what they smelled, heard and saw along with why that indicated intoxication. The very best evidence you could ever have to prove you were not DUI is field tests that show no coordination or comprehension issues and a BAC that is below the legal limit.
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:21   #96
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Don't fall for it, they will spin your words and run with it. 20 posts from know it will look like a tornado hit a trailer park.

Anyone with common sense and a little real world experience who read that knows you were not saying you would fabricate anything. I took it as I am sure you meant it; you have enough training and experience to be able to prove a case against an impaired driver even if they a try to avoid the standardized field tests and chemical tests in an effort to outsmart the system.

The juries see right through it if the officer has the experience to explain what they smelled, heard and saw along with why that indicated intoxication. The very best evidence you could ever have to prove you were not DUI is field tests that show no coordination or comprehension issues and a BAC that is below the legal limit.
If the field test shows no comprehension or coordination issues why test BAC?
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:21   #97
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Because you asked.
Context is everything and this post definetley sounds threatening.

and for the record. I have nothing against policemen. I've never been in trouble and been through probably 100 checkpoints. The county I lived in use dthem a lot and I had to drive on a major 2 way road to get to my house. They set up there almost once a weekend. I've never had a DWI. No axe to grind.

But your post is worrisome. (from a civilian perspective)
Worrisome, why. Because I write the appropriate procedures and state laws that I will follow (and must follow) to make an arrest and process a vehicle and arrestee.

The laws are in place, I know them and follow them, sorry if that is worrisome.
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:23   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer X View Post
For the reading impaired:
<<<SNIP>>>>
It seems that you are using your own prejudice to twist my words to fit your definition.

par•a•graph
[par-uh-graf, -grahf]
noun
1. a distinct portion of written or printed matter dealing with a particular idea, usually beginning with an indentation on a new line.
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2x4=8, not 14.
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:24   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
If the field test shows no comprehension or coordination issues why test BAC?
My reference is either/or. Not all people that test for BAC do the fields, not all that do the fields do BAC.
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Old 12-28-2012, 15:26   #100
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
You are 100% correct. But they sure will tell you about how much they are for liberty.



Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not yourself, wallow in defeat every time. – Sun Tzu

All warfare is based on deception. – Sun Tzu

"The main plank in the National Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood." – Aldof Hitler

“It is thus necessary that the individual should come to realize that his own ego is of no importance in comparison with the existence of his nation;” – Adolf Hilter

“Death is the solution to all problems. No man - no problem.” – Joseph Stalin

“Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy. You in America will see that some day.” - Benito Mussolini

“Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute, in comparison with which all individuals or groups are relative, only to be conceived in their relation to the State.”- Benito Mussolini

"Comrades! We must abolish the cult of the individual decisively, once and for all." - Nikita Khrushchev

“We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." – Hilary Clinton

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans” – Bill Clinton

“What is freedom? There is no such thing as absolute freedom!” - Benito Mussolini
In America , we have this strong bias toward individual action. You know, we idolize the John Wayne hero who comes in to correct things with both guns blazing. But individual actions, individual dreams, are not sufficient. We must unite in collective action, build collective institutions and organizations.” - BARACK OBAMA, Chicago Reader Interview, 1995
So, what I am gathering, you are, in theory a grown up, who refuses to take personal responsibility for thier actions?
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