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Old 12-28-2012, 11:48   #26
Bruce M
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This is why I only do cocaine when I'm out partying.

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...
Refusing the breathalyzer is not what gives the probable cause for the warrant, the indicators of intoxication and probable cause needed for arrest are. No different that a request to take any other type of sample such as DNA, bite impressions, hair samples, ect.
Exactly. There is more than just refusal. Probably the biggest part of this involves making sure a judge is readily available and aware that there probably will be an increase in requests for search warrants.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:48   #27
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I think they are idiotic. "PAPERS! Vere are your papers?" I hate drunk driving but that is not the way to go about it. Around here the cops hang out at the bars and watch people get in their cars, at least then they have some reason to check. I do not need to be harassed when I have done nothing wrong.
But, it's not all about you.

It is about the drunk a few cars back that had he not been pulled off the road then would have run a stop sign and t-boned a mother and her 3 kids at the next intersection, killing all of them. Maybe it would be your wife and kids. Who knows?
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:48   #28
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I don't know about nationwide, but statistics in NV have proven that when cops go out on patrol, they can find a lot more drunk drivers than the incredible waste of manpower needed to set up a checkpoint.

Additionally, while they brag about what few they netted after hours of traffic jams, they almost have invariably broken state laws that require specific signage and distances prior to these checkpoints. Most of the drunks caught at a checkpoint can get off because of this.

They are a net loss for actual effectiveness in my state, except that they perpetuate the power of the police state.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:49   #29
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If drunk drivers were dealt with properly, rather than the "patty cake" fashion of modern America, we wouldn't need sobriety checkpoints.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:50   #30
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If drunk drivers were dealt with properly, rather than the "patty cake" fashion of modern America, we wouldn't need sobriety checkpoints.
That, I think we can both agree on.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:07   #31
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But, it's not all about you.

It is about the drunk a few cars back that had he not been pulled off the road then would have run a stop sign and t-boned a mother and her 3 kids at the next intersection, killing all of them. Maybe it would be your wife and kids. Who knows?

Ahh...but don't you know many think they are guaranteed to be absolutely free of all government intrusion into their life even though that was never the intent of the founding fathers who knew such a utopian society was impossible.

You constantly hear about the 4th amendment but one aspect is always ignored, it only prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. The founding fathers clearly knew it was impossible to prohibit contact between the government and the people if you wanted a functioning government that could fulfill the expectations set forth in the Constitution.

Last edited by ray9898; 12-28-2012 at 17:18..
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:09   #32
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I'm many if you guys would have no problem
if the BATF showed up at your door for a quick random "safe check". After all if you have nothing to hide.....


I'd take DWI laws much more seriously if there was some sort of sliding scale - .08 $1,000 fine, .10 $2,000, .12 $3,000 and 3 mos in jail - something like that. Treating people who have had three glasses of wine like someone who had a .750 of vodka is rally stupid.

Also I'd love to see reaction/decison making dara comparing younger people who've had a couple of drinks with older drivers.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:10   #33
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Originally Posted by .264 magnum View Post
I'm many if you guys would have no problem
if the BATF showed up at your door for a quick random "safe check". After all if you have nothing to hide.....


I'd take DWI laws much more seriously if there was some sort of sliding scale - .08 $1,000 fine, .10 $2,000, .12 $3,000 and 3 mos in jail - something like that. Treating people who have had three glasses of wine like someone who had a .750 of vodka is rally stupid.

Also I'd love to see reaction/decison making dara comparing younger people who've had a couple of drinks with older drivers.
Strawman extraordinaire: on a public street vs inside your home.

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:13   #34
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Strawman extraordinaire: on a public street vs inside your home.

So stopping to check for illegal weapons once you leave your home is ok?
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:16   #35
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DUI checkpoint, correct?
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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:17   #36
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Ahh...but don't you know many think they are guaranteed to be absolutely free of all government intrusion into their life even though that was never the intent of the founding fathers who knew such a utopian society was impossible.

You constantly hear about the 4th amendment but one aspect is always ignored, it only prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. The founding fathers clearly knew it was impossible to prohibit contact between the government and the people if you wanted a functioning government that could fulfill the terms set forth in the Constitution.
Driving isn't included in the Bill of Rights. It is licensed and regulated. In order to drive legally you must possess a road worthy inspected vehicle, purchase insurance, and be issued a state license that certifies that you aren't too retarded or even epileptic to be behind the wheel. There is nothing in the 4th Amendment that prevents law enforcement from taking and considering these items to insure that this you are complying with licensing requirements in order to operate your motor vehicle on federally, state, and municipally funded highways.

There is no 4th Amendment issue in performing those functions. Should you be in violation of the law while that inspection is being conducted, e.g. Driving While Intoxicated, then that is your fault. Not the officer's.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:19   #37
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So stopping to check for illegal weapons once you leave your home is ok?
Consent, Probable Cause, or an Inventory subsequent to arrest would allow a search of your vehicle. A DWI check point is not searching your vehicle. Now, if you get arrested for DWI, then, yes, your vehicle would be searched incidental to your arrest when an Inventory is counducted of the items within your vehicle. If an illegal weapon or illitic drugs are located, I am sure more charges would follow.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:33   #38
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If EVERYONE refused they would waste a lot of time and money getting warrants and doing blood tests.

The damn politicians think that they RULE over us instead of representing us.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:39   #39
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The damn politicians think that they RULE over us instead of representing us.
This is not true. They cannot rule over you unless they have police willing to do their dirty work and think that if you are outside your home, they should be allowed to search you.

Of course I have never heard of an officer saying that a search outside your home is allowed because its not inside your home.

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Strawman extraordinaire: on a public street vs inside your home.

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Old 12-28-2012, 12:41   #40
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Is there a greater expectation of privacy inside a home vs. out on the street (legally)?

Yes.

If you really don't know this please don't try to participate in these adult discussions.
If you do, stop clawing/trolling.
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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

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“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:42   #41
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Consent, Probable Cause, or an Inventory subsequent to arrest would allow a search of your vehicle. A DWI check point is not searching your vehicle. Now, if you get arrested for DWI, then, yes, your vehicle would be searched incidental to your arrest when an Inventory is counducted of the items within your vehicle. If an illegal weapon or illitic drugs are located, I am sure more charges would follow.
What's the probable cause for a DUI checkpoint?
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:44   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Is there a greater expectation of privacy inside a home vs. out on the street (legally)?

Yes.

If you really don't know this please don't try to participate in these adult discussions.
If you do, stop clawing/trolling.
In Louisiana my car enjoys the same constitutional protection as my home
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:47   #43
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Research "search warrant exceptions", to start.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 2
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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:48   #44
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Is there a greater expectation of privacy inside a home vs. out on the street (legally)?

Yes.

If you really don't know this please don't try to participate in these adult discussions.
If you do, stop clawing/trolling.
Ahhh, cannot get your ship out?
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Old 12-28-2012, 13:06   #45
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What's the probable cause for a DUI checkpoint?
SCOTUS upheld the use of dui checkpoints 6-3 back in the early 90's. They called it a slightly invasive stop similar to checkpoints conducted by Border Patrol while looking for illegals and drugs.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/15/us...ted=all&src=pm

I'm not sure they are as effective as they once were now that there are "checkpoint apps" and other methods of hearing about and then avoiding checkpoints. We tend to due the saturation patrol method and pull drivers over for any violation of the vehicle code we find. Then if the officers has reason to suspect the driver is impaired after observations and fst's, he takes them to a centrally located dui van for a blood draw.
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Old 12-28-2012, 13:13   #46
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Luckily, that ****hole is already on my list of places never to visit.

I can barely let the nurses at a hospital stick me when I need it. Some DUI checkpoint? Good God, I don't even want to think about the scene it'd cause.
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Old 12-28-2012, 13:15   #47
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Now, I'm against checkpoints in general. By my luck of the draw I've never met an honest cop at any of them. Like 'em or not sometimes you have to tip your hat.

I really dig where refusing to take a breathalyzer equals enough probable cause for a judge to sign a warrant giving them permission to take your blood by force. That is pimp.
You have all of the grasp of law I'd expect from someone who says, "that is pimp."
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It isn't refusing the breath tests that gives them probable cause, it is driving with evidence that you are intoxicated. By the time you refuse a breathalyzer, you have already been arrested, based on probable cause that you are DUI. The police don't get PC from the BA or base the arrest on it - it is evidence gathered aft6er the arrest.
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Old 12-28-2012, 13:15   #48
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But, it's not all about you.

It is about the drunk a few cars back that had he not been pulled off the road then would have run a stop sign and t-boned a mother and her 3 kids at the next intersection, killing all of them. Maybe it would be your wife and kids. Who knows?


Freedom for security you say, Russ?

Here's an idea then. Back ground checks for every gun sale period. Who knows maybe your wife and kids won't be mugged by that felon then, and a 4473 takes all about the amount of time it takes for a cop to setup a checkpoint.
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Old 12-28-2012, 13:18   #49
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Tell them you have joined the Alternate Government and as such you have diplomatic immunity.
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Old 12-28-2012, 13:21   #50
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I don't know about nationwide, but statistics in NV have proven that when cops go out on patrol, they can find a lot more drunk drivers than the incredible waste of manpower needed to set up a checkpoint.

Additionally, while they brag about what few they netted after hours of traffic jams, they almost have invariably broken state laws that require specific signage and distances prior to these checkpoints. Most of the drunks caught at a checkpoint can get off because of this.

They are a net loss for actual effectiveness in my state, except that they perpetuate the power of the police state.
Yeah, the police state.

The police may actually get more DUIs without checkpoints somewhere. That's certainly not true here when I was a cop. A checkpoint would fill every available car with drunks very quickly - we'd actuaslly gather as many cops as possible from various departments, fill all the cars with drunks, then take them all to jail together.

However, even if they catch more drunks on patrol, the checkpoint is a better deterrent. Eevery drunk believes he can drive well enough to fool the police, but there is no getting around the checkpoint, so the idea is that it causes them to make a diferent decision, if they know checkpoints are likely.
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Last edited by Bren; 12-28-2012 at 13:24..
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