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Old 12-26-2012, 21:24   #21
blastfact
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If one thinks a tad. A 9mm XTP can be made to do the job....
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:16   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
the one that delivers the most energy.

also the nutbags in colorado and conn. did not have ballistic body armor on.
The dark knight nutbag as far as I recall DID have ballistic body armor on.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:28   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kegs View Post
The dark knight nutbag as far as I recall DID have ballistic body armor on.
It was a "tactical" vest. The media called it "bullet proof", which was a lie.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:45   #24
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My carry round is a 135 hp @ 1700 fps average measured at 5y (15') from the muzzle. Yep, I load my own.

This is out of my G29 with a 4.45" KKM barrel.

This load is reported to be less than the SAAMI pressure
limits of the cartridge, but I'm not going to spend the $$$ getting it tested. I have no qualms shooting this one the way I have loaded.

The recoil is a quick impulse - nothing like that slow, pushy impulse typical of a .40 service round or the one that is just like it on steroids from the 200gr. 1250 fps rounds. Much quicker and easier follow up on this one. Very good precision as well - can hold 1-2" groups @ 25y with it from the bench.

I have not tested it on soft armor. I doubt it would penetrate commonly used soft armor.

I know it will not penetrate a 6" Aspen tree, but a hot 200 grainer will blow right through the tree. The hot 200 will not stand a chance against soft armor.

If that bullet had a tungsten carbide core, it most definitely would penetrate any soft armor, but it's probably not gonna pierce hard plate (steel or ceramic).

Obviously, AP ammo in a handgun is against the law. That being said, 7.62x25 ammo will penetrate some soft armor (along with some armored helmets). That is ball ammo.

One guy has made a 7.62x25 conversion, but it is a complicated project and he does not have it on the commercial market.

If there was a 135gr. round nose fmj bullet available for the 10/.40, @ 1700 fps it would easily out-penetrate the 7.62x25. I've checked around in the past and I can't find one.

Good point on the 2 to the chest and 1 to the head. That's probably the best thing going.

The round I use is the best all-around 10mm ammo I have tested. The 10 ring and 10mm reloading glocktalk community has tested the 135 nosler and most of us agree that the bullet is a tad soft to run at the higher 10mm velocities, and it will not hold together in one piece, but many of us have seen various tests with it & those of us who have seen these tests will not doubt that the round has devastating affects beyond what the heavier bullets are capable of.

The only caveat to this is barrier penetration - this round is not the best for shooting through walls, glass, etc. It lacks the momentum of the heavier bullets. Choose the right tool for the job.
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Old 12-28-2012, 09:46   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dm1906 View Post
It was a "tactical" vest. The media called it "bullet proof", which was a lie.
Interesting - I didn't know it, but based on how many other things that I have witnessed them incorrectly report, this does not surprise me.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:06   #26
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The media refers to tactical vests as "bulletproof body armor" in the same breathe as they call our semi-automatic rifles "automatic assault weapons".
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:07   #27
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[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xgclzGPDHo[/url]

Looks like he could still keep fighting if he was determined.
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Old 12-28-2012, 23:58   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKM View Post
Rich Davis begs to differ.
Walking the Walk - YouTube

Interesting. Like I stated I have no direct data, just opinion.

But not knowing exactly what he had under there (what fell out), what the load in the cartridge was & noticing he shot himself in the abs being fully prepared for it (Google Harry Houdini, his claim to being able to be hit in the stomach by anyone & the events leading up to his death) and I still think it would stun most people.
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Old 12-29-2012, 00:02   #29
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Hey you guys!! The 10 Ring


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:57   #30
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I just sold my five-seven. I originally got it because with the right ammo it can defeat L3A but even before the nonsense in CT, the ammo and gun were hard to find and expensive. I mean the only place I could find to buy both was Gunbroker.

The gun is low recoil and has probably the best factory trigger I've seen on a gun. Out of the box there is almost no overtravel. But ultimately the gun was too big for me to carry concealed and ammo was too hard to find, and that's just the plinking ss197. Forget about trying to get T6 or S4 from Elite Ammo which is the main reason I got the thing.

I also was concerned when I shot it at an AR500 swinging steel target. The rounds just didn't seem to hit hard at all. In the middle of the bullet strike there was actually a circle of paint left on the steel. I know that's where the polymer tip hits but still... 10mm on the other hand hits steel with authority.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:18   #31
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When I work at the NJ Meadowlands (my agency provides the police presence there), I keep my G20 loaded with 155 grain XTP. To my way of thinking, the XTP is a hard bullet, and if I have to shoot someone in the vest, I am thinking it will put a good thumping into him even if it doesn't penetrate. Like Opie said, knock him down and then one to the head. Lights out.

I am supposed to go to Prevention and Recognition of Suicide Bomber Incident school next month in New Mexico. If I make it to the school I will be interested in hearing what they have to say. I may not be able to attend due to scheduling conflicts though.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:03   #32
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4949shooter I have a L3A panel on order because I got curious enough about what the Underwood 155gr TMJ would do after seeing that it put a mild dent in my AR500 steel. I am also going to shoot the panel with an UW 155gr XTP. I'll post the video here in a few weeks. I only have a G29 though.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:08   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G29SFWTF View Post
4949shooter I have a L3A panel on order because I got curious enough about what the Underwood 155gr TMJ would do after seeing that it put a mild dent in my AR500 steel. I am also going to shoot the panel with an UW 155gr XTP. I'll post the video here in a few weeks. I only have a G29 though.
Looking forward to it!
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Old 12-29-2012, 13:15   #34
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I think this would solve the problem.


Now to just find a nice IWB holster for it.
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Old 12-29-2012, 13:38   #35
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Theoretically, the fastest and hardest bullet has the best chance. For example, a 135 gr at 1,600+ fps. While a IIIA would almost certainly stop that, a IIA might not.
IIRC, vest are v50 rated, meaning they have at least a 50% probability they will stop their rated threats.
I would say its reasonable to assume a 9mm Dillon could penetrate a level IIIa armor panel, especially if they was more than one impact close together
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