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Old 12-27-2012, 11:39   #76
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Yes, if done properly. Please read my other posts in this thread for more explanation as to why I believe this.
given the known past of the anti self defense/anti gun rights crowd (here and abroad, they think the same way), and the link i provided for you to read.....how on earth could you think giving and inch will stop further assaults on our rights?

can you point out just one example where we lost a gun right and further assaults on our gun rights were stopped?
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:41   #77
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given the known past of the anti self defense/anti gun rights crowd (here and abroad, they think the same way), and the link i provided for you to read.....how on earth could you think giving and inch will stop further assaults on our rights?

can you point out just one example where we lost a gun right and further assaults on our gun rights were stopped?
I have already answered these questions.

In this very thread and in others. Also in direct response to your asking these questions earlier. Please read all the posts.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:41   #78
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Russ, you just refuse to answer the question I posed to you directly, don't you?

Do I need to ask the question again?
I answered your questions directly. Did you not like the answers?

You have no comment on my response to your post?
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:44   #79
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You have too poor an understanding of how politics are working today. These guys are cut-throat predators who will perceive any offer of compromise as weakness. They will tout even an offer as a total breakdown of our will and resolve and pursue their total agenda with even more enthusiasm.

Or, as I said before, you are terribly naive.


Yeah, o.k.

So what should we do Russ? Since you believe that anti-gun legislation IS GOING TO PASS, what should be our next move?
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:45   #80
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I answered your questions directly. Did you not like the answers?

You have no comment on my response to your post?
You have not answer my question, and I have asked it twice now.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:46   #81
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Yes, that will stop Johnny from taking his parents gun/rifle and committing mass murder before killing himself. It will also stop the drug cartels, felons, "(insert BG here)" and everyone else from having those evil guns of which there are over 250 million. It will prevent those that would otherwise be breaking the law from having firearms. Why didn't we think of this before.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:50   #82
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Yes, you are correct. I definitely would compromise to not get crushed by massive, sweeping anti-gun legislation.

Now answer the question I asked you directly in post #52.
You're officially part of the problem. It won't end after your compromise.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:54   #83
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You're officially part of the problem. It won't end after your compromise.
The attempts will never end. But compromising would remove the political will and legislative ability to actually do more.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:54   #84
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he/she thinks if "we" compromise with them now we will not get assaulted later by the same group which has assaulted us before when we compromised.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:55   #85
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The attempts will never end. But compromising would remove the political will and legislative ability to actually do more.
how so, please give us a scenario which would prevent further restrictions on our rights?
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:55   #86
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Russ, you just refuse to answer the question I posed to you directly, don't you?

Do I need to ask the question again?
Post #55 and #73.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:57   #87
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You're officially part of the problem. It won't end after your compromise.

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The attempts will never end. But compromising would remove the political will and legislative ability to actually do more.
Any compromise will empower the opposition, not deter them.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:58   #88
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The federal Government doesn't have to worry about state laws. If they wanted to pass a new law the states would have to change their laws to comply with the Fed.

That's how it's suppose to be anyway, We've seen with the recent weed votes in some states that the fed doesn't always handle it that way.
That's certainly true, but trying to get said law passed, is going to garner much conflict from said states. That was pretty much what I meant.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:00   #89
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Any compromise will empower the opposition, not deter them.
Then you disagree with me. Fine.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:01   #90
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how so, please give us a scenario which would prevent further restrictions on our rights?
i will wait for your answer....
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:04   #91
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I understand that is what you believe. I do NOT believe that at all, no way, no how. False. When you go in to negotiate, you do not go in offering any compromise up front.

The NRA is not going to be as positively influential as you think. You do not even belong to the NRA. What influence would you want the NRA to bring on Legislators?

If a legislator responds in agreement with the nasty NRA, his or her constituents will hang them. If they vote responding to grass root input from us through VCDL and like kind groups, not the NRA, they are responding to the people. Again, the NRA is not in the best position to control the specifics in legislation. Your Representative and Senator here in Virginia will cast the votes. Work on Warner, especially. By the way, have you joined the VCDL yet?The 'Health Care Industry' is not one group, one organization. It is comprised of many large and small groups, special interest groups, who brought their wish lists to the table and to House and Senate hearings. Do you believe there will be in depth hearings?Yes, but not behind the NRA. The NRA should be only one small part of the process. State organizations like VCDL should be working with Representatives and Senators to present our case to Congress.
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Since you believe that anti-gun legislation IS GOING TO PASS,
Never said that.
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what should be our next move?
See the above post. Simply put, fight hard at the grass roots level through personal contact with legislators and contact through state, regional and multiple national organizations. Do not limit your efforts to working through the NRA, which you admit you do not belong to.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:16   #92
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Never said that. See the above post. Simply put, fight hard at the grass roots level through personal contact with legislators and contact through state, regional and multiple national organizations. Do not limit your efforts to working through the NRA, which you admit you do not belong to.
I get it Russ.

You're playing word games. Like we're 7 years old.

I asked you if you thought there was going to be anti-gun legislation passed, and you answered that there was going to be anti-gun legislation. You did not say it would be passed, you just meant that there would be legislation presented.

In other words, you DO NOT think anti-gun legislation is going to be passed.

Go it.

Now I understand your perspective. You do not believe anti-gun legislation is going to be passed, you think there will be a fight and we can/will win it. Therefore, you do not think any compromise should be necessary.

Then just drop it Russ. Since you do not believe that anti-gun legislation absolutely will be passed, then you are correct. There is no reason to compromise on anything.

I myself DO believe that anti-gun legislation IS going to be passed. I believe is it completely un-avoidable. I believe that the only way to minimize the damage, is to compromise So there's no point in you and I discussing this any further. We are not starting at the same point.

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Old 12-27-2012, 12:22   #93
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Then you disagree with me. Fine.
You have never been in high profile, high stakes negotiations with the most powerful financial institutions in this country and abroad involving assets valued in the $100s of millions of dollars all under the scrutiny of the SEC, bank regulators and bond rating companies have you?

No one comes to the table offering anything. Everyone comes to the table ready to demand more to enhance their position. And everyone has the option to close their briefcase and leave if the demand by the other side was not offset by concessions on their part.

I did close my briefcase on two such demands. The total asset value was over a third of a billion dollars. I have a little more experience winning these types of situations than you do.

By the way, the two deals did ultimately close with my side earning quite a bit more than originally scheduled.

So, you may disagree with me, if you want. But, right now, I do not see anyone jumping onto your parade float.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:24   #94
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The attempts will never end. But compromising would remove the political will and legislative ability to actually do more.
If you believe that you are a fool.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:29   #95
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You have never been in high profile, high stakes negotiations with the most powerful financial institutions in this country and abroad involving assets valued in the $100s of millions of dollars all under the scrutiny of the SEC, bank regulators and bond rating companies have you?

No one comes to the table offering anything. Everyone comes to the table ready to demand more to enhance their position. And everyone has the option to close their briefcase and leave if the demand by the other side was not offset by concessions on their part.

I did close my briefcase on two such demands. The total asset value was over a third of a billion dollars. I have a little more experience winning these types of situations than you do.

By the way, the two deals did ultimately close with my side earning quite a bit more than originally scheduled.

So, you may disagree with me, if you want. But, right now, I do not see anyone jumping onto your parade float.
You and others believe we can fight any and all anti-gun legislation and win. You believe that we can stop anti-gun legislation from being passed.

I believe the exact opposite. I believe that there is nothing we can do to stop anti-gun legislation from being passed. I believe that in either January or Febuary we will see anti-gun legislation crammed down our throats, and we cannot stop it.

So, no further discussions are necessary. Talk to you in a few months.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:29   #96
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I get it Russ.

You're playing word games. Like we're 7 years old.

I asked you if you thought there was going to be anti-gun legislation passed, and you answered that there was going to be anti-gun legislation. Not that it would necessarily be passed, just that there would be legislation presented.

In other words, you DO NOT think anti-gun legislation is going to be passed.

Go it.

Now I understand your perspective. You simply do not believe anti-gun legislation is going to be passed. Therefore, you do not think any compromise should be necessary.

Then just drop it Russ. Since you do not believe that anti-gun legislation will be passed, then you are correct. There is absolutely no reason to compromise on anything.

I myself DO believe that anti-gun legislation IS going to be passed. I believe is it completely un-avoidable. So there's no point in you and I discussing this any further. We are not starting at the some point.
There will be legislation presented. Whether it is passed, or in what form it will be passed depends on our success fighting any legislation presented. The fight needs to begin at the grass roots level. We have to attack the anti-gun side hard and constantly and continually. There can be no let up. If your hear an untruth, quote it and provide the truth and send it to your legislator, House or Senate. Send a letter to the editor of your newspaper comparing the truth and the untruth. Hit them hard and hit them often.

You are willing to admit defeat before the face to face begins. That is not my style and it seems many here agree with me.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:30   #97
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Delete duplicate post.

Last edited by M&P15T; 12-27-2012 at 12:33..
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:33   #98
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So, no further discussions are necessary. Talk to you in a few months.
And what will you be doing in those intervening months? Join the NRA? Join the VCDL? Constantly communicate with your Representative and Senator? Quell the lies being pawned off on the masses you want to quell? What are you going to be doing?
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:36   #99
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And what will you be doing in those intervening months? Join the NRA? Join the VCDL? Constantly communicate with your Representative and Senator? Quell the lies being pawned off on the masses you want to quell? What are you going to be doing?
he/she will be compromising....
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:38   #100
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And what will you be doing in those intervening months? Join the NRA? Join the VCDL? Constantly communicate with your Representative and Senator? Quell the lies being pawned off on the masses you want to quell? What are you going to be doing?
All of the above.

I'm not going to stop fighting, but I do not believe we can win. I didn't think Romney was going to win, but it didn't stop me from voting for him, or attempting to convince everyone I kew that they should vote for him too.

I believe Sandy Hook is going to crush us.

I am waiting for the debates to start to start in the House and Senate. We WILL see the anti-gunners bring out the Mothers and Fathers of the lost children of Sandy Hook. This WILL get them the votes they need to pass legislation. Because the constituency will see those people on live, national TV, and they will call their elected representatives screaming for gun-control.

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