Gun show loop hole?? - Page 18

gwalchmai · 12-23-2012, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

Russ, I've got an idea.

I cannot start a poll, i don't have the ability, but you surely do.

Hmm, strange that someone as knowledgeable as yourself can't use that simple board function...

M&P15T · 12-23-2012, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP

Would you say that the people there in Arlington who work for .gov hold the same political views as those in Central Virginia? SE Virginia? SW Virginia?

Let's go back before Sandy Hook. Would you say that Northern Virginia was more anti-gun or more pro-gun?

Are you a member of VCDL?

I do not discuss politics with customers. That is a basic tenent of sales, no personal types of discussion, you don't want to risk alienating a perspective client.

Plus, folks that live here are largely not from here. They are usually folks from other parts of the Nation, here for work. There are very few people I have met that are native to this area.

I am not a member of the VCDL, not the NRA. That will change as soon as possible.

M&P15T · 12-23-2012, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwalchmai

Hmm, strange that someone as knowledgeable as yourself can't use that simple board function...

Please explain it, because I have never seen that I have that ability. I thought it was something only for certain paying members.

M&P15T · 12-23-2012, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehan2

dad,

I use logic and negotiate everyday, nor was that a personal insult; it was just showing you your approach to gun control in a business setting that I thought you'd understand (because it's your business)... This Friday I closed an account (been working on it since October) worth $1.8mm a year with a 3+2 year deal...you know what I gave them? nothing more than the guy I closed on Tuesday that was a $12,000 a year for a handshake deal. And do you know why? because I didn't offer to give him something "for free" thinking this would make him happy.

The cliffnotes of this 400+ post thread is that you think we should offer a "token gesture" of closing a loophole that you think none of care about, and that will appease the general population that think we need to do something about gun control

Most of the rest of us see this as the naive approach that it is. And your repeating that something bad is going to happen we should do this, doesn't change that something bad will probably happen, and that you're still naive.

If the left publicly came out and said "if you close the loophole, that would be the end of our demands" i would be more likely to see your point (I would still debate that we don't need to and shouldn't, but I would see your point). They want guns gone from the pubic and will not stop until that happens....handing them something just brings that a step closer. If FTF transfers at gunshows are going to go away, make them spend money and fight for this to happen, don't just hand it to them on a silver platter

You still don't get it buddy. And I can't explain it any clearer than I already have.

We are NOT WORRIED about the rabid gun-grabbers, who normally do not have the political capital to actually achieve their demands. Who normally cannot get the votes needed to pass such legislation.

These folks have enough power right now to pass something bad, but only because of popular demand across the country that exists right now. But if you don't believe that, this conversation is moot.

This is either the basis for your understanding, or you simply will not get what I'm saying. If that is not the starting point for you, then again, this discussion is moot.

And, as I stated previously, and you clearly missed, business dealings do not have the additional variables of national popular opinion, media attention, and politics. So the comparison is silly.

Plus, your "cliff notes" definitively show you are NOT grasping the specifics and points of my proposal. I do not think that folks won't care about giving up the GSLH, rather I think giving on that will save us from much tougher legislation.

Give a little instead of losing a lot.

That's the point you can't grasp.

**RussP** · 12-23-2012, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

No.

The market is too competetive. You can't start at prices that are too high, perspective customers would simply walk away. We simply give on profit margin. Period.

If you think this side-conversation is going to lead to an epiphany about the topic at hand, you're sure to be disappointed. There is no "popular opinion" or "politics" involved as additional variables to be considered in selling such projects .

Just wanted people to see why you are so willing to go into negotiations eager and willing and well prepared to give up something even before negotiations begin. You do it in your personal life, and you expect others to do the same.

We all are not wired like you are. Some of us go in ready to win the deal and, AND come out with what we wanted without giving away profits.

gwalchmai · 12-23-2012, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

Please explain it, because I have never seen that I have that ability. I thought is was something only for certain paying members.

Just above the "Submit" button.

tehan2 · 12-23-2012, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

I cannot start a poll, i don't have the ability, but you surely do.

You could start a thread with a poll, that asks one simply question:

Do you believe that there will be new gun-control legislation in the next 3 months?

No possible answers other than "Yes" or "No".

and that's the problem....

Your posts are not whether there will be new laws...I think most here believe that there will be new gun control, none of us will debate that. What will will debate, and what you're saying is that we should just roll over and offer them something they want with the hope that they'll stop wanting..

so the pole should be

Should we just give the left what they want for gun control? and the answer should be yes or no

or should we cave to their list of demands?

yes or no

or how many of their demands should we give them ?
and do a list of 0-all

certifiedfunds · 12-23-2012, 13:10

M&P - quick question for ya

If the feds mandate that 4473 be used for every private transfer, and there isn't any gun registration, how do you propose they enforce it?

If I sell a gun to someone without an FFL how ever would they know?

gwalchmai · 12-23-2012, 13:12

Essentially M&P's position is that we should ask the antis "If we require all gunshow sales to go through FFLs, will you please leave the rest of our gun rights alone?"

Sounds a lot like "Peace in our time"...

**RussP** · 12-23-2012, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP

Would you say that the people there in Arlington who work for .gov hold the same political views as those in Central Virginia? SE Virginia? SW Virginia?

Let's go back before Sandy Hook. Would you say that Northern Virginia was more anti-gun or more pro-gun?

Are you a member of VCDL?

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

I do not discuss politics with customers. That is a basic tenent of sales, no personal types of discussion, you don't want to risk alienating a perspective client.

Plus, folks that live here are largely not from here. They are usually folks from other parts of the Nation, here for work. There are very few people I have met that are native to this area.

Nothing in that response answers my questions. Try again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

I am not a member of the VCDL, not the NRA. That will change as soon as possible.

What is holding you back?

gwalchmai · 12-23-2012, 13:14

M&P, here's a new avatar for ya.

certifiedfunds · 12-23-2012, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwalchmai

Essentially M&P's position is that we should ask the antis "If we require all gunshow sales to go through FFLs, will you please leave the rest of our gun rights alone?"

Sounds a lot like "Peace in our time"...

It has worked well for Israel

G26S239 · 12-23-2012, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

Plus I live in "the area". I have worked for hours and hours with the same type of people that will be determining the future of gun legislation in this country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

I do not discuss politics with customers. That is a basic tenent of sales, no personal types of discussion, you don't want to risk alienating a perspective client.

Plus, folks that live here are largely not from here. They are usually folks from other parts of the Nation, here for work. There are very few people I have met that are native to this area.

I am not a member of the VCDL, not the NRA. That will change as soon as possible.

So in spite of living in "the area" and citing that as a basis for your special knowledge of how DC politics work you have actually made a point of not discussing politics with your customers. So how did you get so politically brilliant? Osmosis?

Hell I recently spent several months working @ 44 Montgomery Street in San Francisco remodeling the 27th floor so the SEC can work from there. By your standard I now have special whiz bang knowledge of the inner workings of the SEC. It pays to live in "the Bay Area."

G26S239 · 12-23-2012, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwalchmai

M&P, here's a new avatar for ya.

M&P15T · 12-23-2012, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwalchmai

Just above the "Submit" button.

Nothing there, no way to create a poll. I just looked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehan2

and that's the problem....

Your posts are not whether there will be new laws...I think most here believe that there will be new gun control, none of us will debate that. What will will debate, and what you're saying is that we should just roll over and offer them something they want with the hope that they'll stop wanting..

so the pole should be

Should we just give the left what they want for gun control? and the answer should be yes or no

or should we cave to their list of demands?

yes or no

or how many of their demands should we give them ?
and do a list of 0-all

No, that's not the point at all.

You're just not getting it buddy. Everything above you're suggesting is far, faaar from what I'm suggesting.

Sorry buddy, but you appear un-able to get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by certifiedfunds

M&P - quick question for ya

If the feds mandate that 4473 be used for every private transfer, and there isn't any gun registration, how do you propose they enforce it?

If I sell a gun to someone without an FFL how ever would they know?

Lord, this is just sad.....

That's not what I'm suggesting at all.

Go back, re-read my posts for comprehension, and ask any clarifying questions you may have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwalchmai

Essentially M&P's position is that we should ask the antis "If we require all gunshow sales to go through FFLs, will you please leave the rest of our gun rights alone?"

Sounds a lot like "Peace in our time"...

Would you prefer a massive, gun-rights crushing bunch of legislation? Or do you think it would be smarter to give a little and not lose a lot?

You either believe that gun-control legislation is going to happen, or you don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussP

Nothing in that response answers my questions. Try again.What is holding you back?

As I tried to explain, I would have no idea. Politics is a verbotten topic, so I would have no idea. If you can't accept that, I can't help you. I truly have no idea what folks here think about gun-control, I would not ask such questions of a perspective client.

M&P15T · 12-23-2012, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwalchmai

M&P, here's a new avatar for ya.

That dosen't work at all.

You should know your history before you make that sort of comparison to what I'm saying. Plus you should actually understand what I've been saying.

Nothing Chamberlin did was going to stop the Nazis. Conversely, appeasing the population base that is giving the anti-gunners their poltical power, thereby removing their power, can stop the anti-gunners.

gwalchmai · 12-23-2012, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

Nothing there, no way to create a poll. I just looked.

I guess it's one of the advanced features of Lead Membership. Sorry to have insulted you.

Quote:

Would you prefer a massive, gun-rights crushing bunch of legislation? Or do you think it would be smarter to give a little and not lose a lot?

You either believe that gun-control legislation is going to happen, or you don't.

See this.

**RussP** · 12-23-2012, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

You still don't get it buddy.

We DO get what you are proposing.

Do not worry about Bloomburg [sic], Feinstein, or the media.
They are powerless without the people who normally do not pay attention to guns or gun laws, or gun issues.
You propose offering those people who normally do not pay attention to guns or gun laws, or gun issues a law requiring all gun show sales between private individuals include an NICS background check.
In exchange, all those who normally do not pay attention to guns or gun laws, or gun issues will back off on requiring any further restrictions on gun and gun accessory ownership and possession.
You propose that Bloomburg [sic], Feinstein and the media will listen to all those who normally do not pay attention to guns or gun laws, or gun issues and will not pursue additional restrictions themselves because all those who normally do not pay attention to guns or gun laws, gun issues will have faded into the background again.

Now, is that a fair representation of what you are proposing?

***ref441*** · 12-23-2012, 13:34

There seems to be a general feeling here that some additonal gun control WILL be enacted.

Can The Great Pretender in the White House pass such legislation by Executive Order? Could an issue like gun control be added to some other Bill?

If not, will the comatose GOP House support gun control? In the past, I would have said "No", but they have caved on taxes and might well concede on gun control, especially if the Dems cut back on taxes. They (Dems) might indeed be willing to do that to appease the anti-gun crowd that has not gotten any satisfaction in the past 12 years.

On the other hand, some believe the Democratic Senate might not have the votes to pass new gun control measures.

I'm just asking these questions; I don't know the answers. But it seems pre-mature to concede today that new gun control WILL be passed. Appointing a "study commission" is usually a smoke screen to delay action and do nothing after the report is issued.

M&P15T · 12-23-2012, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwalchmai

I guess it's one of the advanced features of Lead Membership. Sorry to have insulted you.

See this.

If you do not believe that gun-control legislation is going to happen, then yes, nothing I'm saying is correct. And you shouldn't bother trying to argue with me, because nothing I'm saying is going to make any sense.

I have already said this before, many, many times.

gwalchmai · 12-23-2012, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

That dosen't work at all.

You should know your history before you make that sort of comparison to what I'm saying. Plus you should actually understand what I've been saying.

Nothing Chamberlin did was going to stop the Nazis. Conversely, appeasing the population base that is giving the anti-gunners their poltical power, thereby removing their power, can stop the anti-gunners.

No, it's quite appropriate - Chamberlain thought what he was doing would stop the Nazis, just like you think your appeasement offer will stop the antis. Via hindsight we see Nevil's folly, and yours.

tehan2 · 12-23-2012, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

No, that's not the point at all.

You're just not getting it buddy. Everything above you're suggesting is far, faaar from what I'm suggesting.

Sorry buddy, but you appear un-able to get it.

Well, I may not be too bright, but it took me about 30 seconds to find your post on the 1st page that says this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

Weeeeell.....

I gotta mull this new info over. I did not know that such things occured.

On the face of it, if for no other reason than to remove the "gun show loop-hole" phrase from the anti-gunners lexicon, it might be wise to consider shutting it down.

I get the "slippery slope", I understand that the private sales of firearms has had little to do with any of these shootings. Still, perhaps if we supported not allowing private sales at gun shows, we could shut them up a bit.

I don't know.......it's a double edged sword. We don't need anymore gun legislation. But then criminals are most certainly getting their guns that way.

Screw it, I saw close it. Folks can still do face-to-face transactions free of governmental interference. Just make all gun show participants use NICS and 4473s.

I do think as responsible gun owners, it is incumbant on us to help make sure that criminals have as hard a time as possible getting firearms.

Flame suit on.

now I'm assuming that when you typed "saw" you really meant "say"... but clear as day you say close the "gun show loophole" so that we can "shut them up a bit"

if that isn't exactly what I said you said please tell me where I used your words wrong so that I can "get it, buddy"

.

G26S239 · 12-23-2012, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

Plus I live in "the area". I have worked for hours and hours with the same type of people that will be determining the future of gun legislation in this country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

As I tried to explain, I would have no idea. Politics is a verbotten topic, so I would have no idea. If you can't accept that, I can't help you. I truly have no idea what folks here think about gun-control, I would not ask such questions of a perspective client.

So living in "the area" and hours and hours of work around those people means nada after all. Why did you even bring that up?

gwalchmai · 12-23-2012, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&P15T

If you do not believe that gun-control legislation is going to happen, then yes, nothing I'm saying is correct. And you shouldn't bother trying to argue with me, because nothing I'm saying is going to make any sense.

I have already said this before, many, many times.

Oh, we're not trying to argue with you - we're just having fun showing how wrong you are.

G26S239 · 12-23-2012, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ref441

There seems to be a general feeling here that some additonal gun control WILL be enacted.

Can The Great Pretender in the White House pass such legislation by Executive Order? Could an issue like gun control be added to some other Bill?

If not, will the comatose GOP House support gun control? In the past, I would have said "No", but they have caved on taxes and might well concede on gun control, especially if the Dems cut back on taxes. They might indeed be willing to do that to appease the anti-gun crowd that has not gotten any satisfaction in the past 12 years.

I'm just asking these questions; I don't know the answers. But it seems pre-mature to concede today that new gun control WILL be passed. Appointing a "study commission" is usually a smoke screen to delay action and do nothing after the report is issued.

Yes it is ridiculous to surrender. In fact it would be down right stupid to do so. That will not keep the Chamberlains and Philbys on GT from preaching appeasement and surrender.