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Old 12-19-2012, 09:23   #101
FireForged
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I have never been to a gun show that Didnt have private citizens selling from their reserved tables. Its not like spotting bigfoot or something.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:24   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
And how is a private seller to know if they are selling to a prohibited person? Crystal ball? Coin flip? Ask nicely?

This is why I have never sold a gun to anyone I didn't know personally.
You can ask, and you can require them to sign a statement to that effect. Also, if they have a CCW they're unlikely to be prohibited. In the end, though, if you don't think they are legal it's up to you to not sell.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:26   #103
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Originally Posted by FireForged View Post
I have never been to a gun show that Didnt have private citizens selling from their reserved tables. Its not like spotting bigfoot or something.
Yeah, but you are in the rebel south.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:26   #104
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What do you base all this nonsense on - CNN reports? Come on, show us some real evidence to back up all these claims.
Sorry son, but demanding "evidence" like you're doing is silly.

Read and watch the news. Talk to people you know, ask them what they think. Talk to people at work, as them what they think. Call your elected officials and ask them what messages they are getting from their constiuents.

There's nothing scientific here, just over-all impression.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:28   #105
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Sorry son, but demanding "evidence" like you're doing is silly.

Read and watch the news. Talk to people you know, ask them what they think. Talk to people at work, as them what they think. Call your elected officials and ask them what messages they are getting from their constiuents.

There's nothing scientific here, just over-all impression.
I thought the same thing about the election. Everyone I knew was voting for Romney and look how things turned out. Your are basically presenting anecdotal evidence.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:29   #106
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Quite a few, folks on FB. Actual adults that are calling thier elected officials. Hell, some family members and family friends.
No, Facebook ninnies don't count. I'm talking about real people in face-to-face conversations. People you know who were pro-gun before CT and are anti now.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:30   #107
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Quite a few, folks on FB. Actual adults that are calling thier elected officials. Hell, some family members and family friends.



No, the last 10+ years have seen NO anti-gun legislation. Including every time someone has gone on a killing spree.

Hell, gun laws have been getting better and better over the last 10+ years, we all know that.
Feinstein, McCarthy and a group of other nut bags put up anti-gun legislation every session.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:33   #108
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Sorry son, but demanding "evidence" like you're doing is silly.

Read and watch the news. Talk to people you know, ask them what they think. Talk to people at work, as them what they think. Call your elected officials and ask them what messages they are getting from their constiuents.

There's nothing scientific here, just over-all impression.
"The news" is not a good source. As I said, everyone I talk to is still pro-gun.

Your "over-all impression" is not worth very much, frankly. That's why so many of us reject "feelings" as a basis for decision making, "Dad".
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:36   #109
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I thought the same thing about the election. Everyone I knew was voting for Romney and look how things turned out. Your are basically presenting anecdotal evidence.
Ture. I hope I am wrong. We'll see.

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No, Facebook ninnies don't count. I'm talking about real people in face-to-face conversations. People you know who were pro-gun before CT and are anti now.
It's not about who is pro-gun and who are anti-gun. It's about who calls and writes letters and e-mails their elected officials. It's about votes in our legislature.

And yes, I've had face-to-face conversations with people. People that were on the fence, didn't care, and are now driven to contact their elected officials and pitch a fit.

It's not about "pro-gun" becoming "anti", that pretty much doesn't happen, and the world is not strictly black and white. It's the millions and millions of people that basically could not care one bit about guns, until something like this happens. Those people represent a far larger portion of the voting public than those that are either pro or anti-gun.

Those are the people that can really ruin things for us, and they are freaking out about guns right now.

Last edited by M&P15T; 12-19-2012 at 09:37..
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:39   #110
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Originally Posted by Roger1079 View Post
And how is a private seller to know if they are selling to a prohibited person? Crystal ball? Coin flip? Ask nicely?

This is why I have never sold a gun to anyone I didn't know personally.

are you asking what is required legally?

I can't speak for every state, but here in Colorado, as a seller I must have "no reason to believe the buyer is a prohibited person" and also must be a resident of the state. The FTF transactions I have done here (and I've done dozens) I have actually asked at the time of meeting "Is there any reason that I should question your suitability or are you federally prohibited from owning a firearm? And are you a current resident of the state of Colorado?" Legally, that is all that is needed from me. If the buyer lies, he has committed a crime, not me.

In other states that I have lived, there have been other requirements. In MA, I could only sell to a person who has possession of his CCW/LTC/FID and there is a state form (unofficial registration) that needs to be filled out and sent to The Criminal History Board (because in Mass, gun owners are criminals)

It's been years since I lived in MI, PA, OH and FL so I don't recall actual procedures
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:43   #111
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Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
"The news" is not a good source. As I said, everyone I talk to is still pro-gun.

Your "over-all impression" is not worth very much, frankly. That's why so many of us reject "feelings" as a basis for decision making, "Dad".
Not feelings. Impressions and feeling are two very different things.

And the fact that the people that you talk to are "still pro-gun"? That means that they were "pro-gun" before all of this crap. Those types of folks aren't the concern.

You need to understand that the voting population of this country is mostly made-up of people that couldn't give a **** about guns. Just don't care one way or another, aren't interested in guns. Your view-point is very myopic, and narrow, as is your circle of friends, evidently.

The problem is the millions and millions and millions of people that don't care one way or another about guns normally, but are now really pissed and demanding action from their elected officials.

People you don't seem to understand actually exist.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:44   #112
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
It's not about who is pro-gun and who are anti-gun. It's about who calls and writes letters and e-mails their elected officials. It's about votes in our legislature.

And yes, I've had face-to-face conversations with people. People that were on the fence, didn't care, and are now driven to contact their elected officials and pitch a fit.

It's not about "pro-gun" becoming "anti", that pretty much doesn't happen, and the world is not strictly black and white. It's the millions and millions of people that basically could not care one bit about guns, until something like this happens. Those people represent a far larger portion of the voting public than those that are either pro or anti-gun.

Those are the people that can really ruin things for us, and they are freaking out about guns right now.
OK, believe whatever you want, but I doubt you'll convince many intelligent gunowners to compromise on this issue.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:47   #113
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Feinstein, McCarthy and a group of other nut bags put up anti-gun legislation every session.
Yeah? So?

No one has listened to them in the past, because everyone knew they could not get the votes to pass anything. Things have changed now, and it's time you understood that.

I'm willing to bet they have the votes right now, right at this very moment, to pass anti-gun legislation.

But if the "Fiscal Cliff" stuff takes up all of their time, focus and energy, we might get really, really lucky, and this might blow-over.

Plus, Obummer has "appointed" Uncle Joe to head-up the administrations new policy reccommendations, and the time that it takes for Uncle Joe to figure suff out might also save us.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:50   #114
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OK, believe whatever you want, but I doubt you'll convince many intelligent gunowners to compromise on this issue.
Thankfully it won't be up to what you think are "intelligent gunowners".

As is plainly obvious, being "smart" means little when we're actually talking about politics, which is it's own little universe of intellignece and cunning.

"Intelligent gunowners" pretty much don't fall into that catagory.
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:58   #115
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To the OPs question...private sellers sell in the show and out in the parking lot. From my visits to guns shows, I know it's anecdotal, they have to complete the form....however, the private seller doesn't.

My personal process when selling to an individual is to ask if they are lawful to purchase/own a hand/long gun. If they respond yes, then I ask for their name & DOB. If they don't want to provide...I don't sell. It's my choice.



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Old 12-19-2012, 10:24   #116
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You dont need a "gun show" to do a "person to person" private gun sale which is at the heart of the gun show loophole debate.

If we ban gun shows, people will still use the internet and newspapers to advertise their personally owned firearms for sale. They just meet at a parking lot or something, exchange cash and guns...and off they go. (Ive done this several times as a buyer and seller)

Here in Vegas it is the sellers responsibility to ensure the buyer is a Nevada resident and thats were the sellers responsibility ends.

The buyer has no legal obligation to prove anything but state residency, usually just a drivers license. (for a long gun) Hand guns must be registered by the owner within 30 days but thats on the buyer not the seller.

This is how felons, illegal aliens, folks with restraining orders, folks with mental issues, and bad guys in general get guns. At least thats the argument.

This is the one sore spot I have with our beloved sport and hobby and livelihood. I dont have a good argument for this fact other than "I dont want a paper trail". And that opens a whole different "negative" debate unfortunately.

Last edited by mixflip; 12-19-2012 at 10:29..
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:55   #117
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You can ask, and you can require them to sign a statement to that effect. Also, if they have a CCW they're unlikely to be prohibited. In the end, though, if you don't think they are legal it's up to you to not sell.
I love my guns as much as anyone on here, but I'm sorry, defending (or hiding behind) BS laws like this makes us look like we just don't care who gets a gun.

Just met some stranger and he signed a piece paper telling you he's not a felon? Hey, great. I feel better already about our chances in the court of public opinion.

I mean, he signed your piece of paper, right? Felons never lie about stuff like their criminal history to get what they want, do they?

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Old 12-19-2012, 10:58   #118
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Let me ask another way.

Has anyone every seen a private seller, with a table set-up inside a gunshow, selling firearms without NICS checks?
Yes. As a private seller, I've been setting up a table at the local gun show off and on for years. All legal.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:00   #119
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As is plainly obvious, being "smart" means little when we're actually talking about politics, which is it's own little universe of intellignece and cunning.
uh-huh...
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:02   #120
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I love my guns as much as anyone on here, but I'm sorry, defending (or hiding behind) BS laws like this makes us look like we just don't care who gets a gun.

Just met some stranger and he signed a piece paper telling you he's not a felon? Hey, great. I feel better already about our chances in the court of public opinion.

I mean, he signed your piece of paper, right? Felons never lie about stuff like their criminal history to get what they want, do they?

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In which mass shooting did the perpetrator obtain his guns using said loophole?
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:02   #121
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Compromising with these people will get us nowhere. No matter what we do public opinion from the left won't change. It's foolish to think otherwise.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:07   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry's Dad View Post
I love my guns as much as anyone on here, but I'm sorry, defending (or hiding behind) BS laws like this makes us look like we just don't care who gets a gun.

Just met some stranger and he signed a piece paper telling you he's not a felon? Hey, great. I feel better already about our chances in the court of public opinion.

I mean, he signed your piece of paper, right? Felons never lie about stuff like their criminal history to get what they want, do they?

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That's why prohibited classes are nonsense in the first place.

Surely if 4473's were required for all FTF gun transfers, criminals would abide, right?

No?

So it would only create a papertrail to legally owned guns.

No thanks.

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 12-19-2012 at 11:08..
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:11   #123
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I love my guns as much as anyone on here, but I'm sorry, defending (or hiding behind) BS laws like this makes us look like we just don't care who gets a gun.
Well, it is absolutely your right to misinterpret the law in any manner you choose, and to try to impose your anti-freedom ideas on free people. I choose to fight you on it, and I will do so for as long as am able.

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Old 12-19-2012, 11:12   #124
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Compromising with these people will get us nowhere. No matter what we do public opinion from the left won't change. It's foolish to think otherwise.
Again, ya'll aren't getting the point, the issue at hand.

Read here:
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1458663
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:13   #125
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Ask and answer ONE simple question about the liberal desire for "gun control".

AT WHAT POINT WILL THEY BE SATISFIED?

You all know good and d*mned well that that point is when they have seen every gun they can lay hands on crushed or melted.

And I for one do not believe that even THAT is the end game.

Total control is the end game. Those standing in the way, ignored if harmless, destroyed if dangerous to them.

History is filled with examples of governments amassing total control then killing thousands or millions of their own citizens. From the "disappeared" of Argentina at the small end to the millions purposely starved, gassed, shot, enslaved and worked to death.

Notice the Fudds that think they don't have a dog in the fight and support "reasonable restrictions". They will be next. Or maybe the handgunners are next up, who knows?

What I do know is that it will not stop with the next restriction or the one after that. It will go on and on, spurred on by the fact that law after law will fail to hold in check the horrendous acts of those who act on evil or insanity. With each atrocity so sickening that it elicits an unreasoned emotional response to do something to try to make those feeling helpless feel safe, more control.

Almost all of the people who read this are going to give up with nothing more than some righteous anger at losing their guns and maybe an email to their elected representative. And because they will not cross the line and go to an actual war to keep the means to keep their freedom, they will not keep their freedom.

Greetings, Government Slaves.
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