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Old 12-19-2012, 07:13   #26
KalashniKEV
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Let me ask another way.

Has anyone every seen a private seller, with a table set-up inside a gunshow, selling firearms without NICS checks?
Sure, all the time.

I oppose this not on the registry thing or JBTs-show-up-at-my-house thing, but just because the Federal Government has no business being in the middle of that transaction.

If the state wanted to impose it, and we do have a state form in VA, I would be *a little more* ok with it. I'm a states rights kind of guy.

Virginia was ready to secede over Obamacare... maybe we will this time?
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:14   #27
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Sure, all the time.

I oppose this not on the registry thing or JBTs-show-up-at-my-house thing, but just because the Federal Government has no business being in the middle of that transaction.

If the state wanted to impose it, and we do have a state form in VA, I would be *a little more* ok with it. I'm a states rights kind of guy.

Virginia was ready to secede over Obamacare... maybe we will this time?
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:17   #28
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Just for clarity it is my understanding that the show laws vary by state. California, Colorado, Illinois, New York, Oregon and Rhode Island require checks for all sellers/buyers.

As I said, it varies. I believe some state don' allow private sales at shows and some do. I just saw a good list on the differences the other day but can't locate it...............
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:19   #29
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Weeeeell.....

I gotta mull this new info over. I did not know that such things occured.

On the face of it, if for no other reason than to remove the "gun show loop-hole" phrase from the anti-gunners lexicon, it might be wise to consider shutting it down.

I get the "slippery slope", I understand that the private sales of firearms has had little to do with any of these shootings. Still, perhaps if we supported not allowing private sales at gun shows, we could shut them up a bit.

I don't know.......it's a double edged sword. We don't need anymore gun legislation. But then criminals are most certainly getting their guns that way.

Screw it, I saw close it. Folks can still do face-to-face transactions free of governmental interference. Just make all gun show participants use NICS and 4473s.

I do think as responsible gun owners, it is incumbant on us to help make ensure that criminals have as hard a time as possible getting firearms.

Flame suit on.
These are FTF transactions. How do you close it without ending those?

Let the vampire into the house and you know what comes next.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:19   #30
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Same question here. Are private sellers allowed to set-up tables inside gun-shows and sell firearms with out NICS checks?
At some shows, but they are a minority. The big face-to-face selling at the show is just a guy seeing another guy carrying a gun and saying "how much do you want for that." I have sold a few guns that way and even traded for and re-sold the same gun while walking around the show.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:20   #31
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So who's the moron who registers the gun in his name and then later sells it privately without an official transfer?
Uhh.............. Lots of us who live in free states have bought, sold and traded guns on the used market without goobermint approval.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:25   #32
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These are FTF transactions. How do you close it without ending those?

Let the vampire into the house and you know what comes next.
Again, only at gun shows. Just pacify the anti-gunners. We all know it won't really change anything. Let them think they have won something.

Folks could still meet at a gun show, walk out to the parking lot and do a face-to-face....we all understand that.

With how ignorant of all things firearms the anti-gunners are, they won't be able to grasp the specifics. They won't know it really does nothing. But they will not have that talking point to blab on T.V.

Last edited by M&P15T; 12-19-2012 at 07:26..
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:25   #33
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Weeeeell.....

I gotta mull this new info over. I did not know that such things occured.

On the face of it, if for no other reason than to remove the "gun show loop-hole" phrase from the anti-gunners lexicon, it might be wise to consider shutting it down.

I get the "slippery slope", I understand that the private sales of firearms has had little to do with any of these shootings. Still, perhaps if we supported not allowing private sales at gun shows, we could shut them up a bit.

I don't know.......it's a double edged sword. We don't need anymore gun legislation. But then criminals are most certainly getting their guns that way.

Screw it, I saw close it. Folks can still do face-to-face transactions free of governmental interference. Just make all gun show participants use NICS and 4473s.

I do think as responsible gun owners, it is incumbant on us to help make sure that criminals have as hard a time as possible getting firearms.

Flame suit on.
How nice of you!



**** that noise!

Name a restriction to our firearms rights that has reduced crime OR reduced the lefts desire to take more...

Used to be we could buy a gun mail order and have it shipped to your home. Crime wasn't bad then.

Used to be a person didn't have to fill out a form to buy a gun, and crime wasn't bad then either...

Crime did escalate after that though.

Background checks, waiting periods, AWB's.... All in the name of compromise and to help stop crime. Never works though.

So no thanks.

Last edited by G36's Rule; 12-19-2012 at 07:28..
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:27   #34
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At some shows, but they are a minority. The big face-to-face selling at the show is just a guy seeing another guy carrying a gun and saying "how much do you want for that." I have sold a few guns that way and even traded for and re-sold the same gun while walking around the show.

That is kind of what I was thinking was going on. So this big deal about "closing gun show loopholes" is a big deal about nothing that the libs are trying to push so that people will think they are really helping control guns.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:28   #35
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Let me ask another way.

Has anyone every seen a private seller, with a table set-up inside a gunshow, selling firearms without NICS checks?
Yes, I have and they are few and far between, at least at the shows I used to attend when I lived in Florida. You'd see people milling around with a rifle or case with a sign attached to it trying to sell a gun or two. Nothing as nefarious as they'd have everyone believing. Oh, and to choad or whatever your name is who posted up there ^^^ go pound sand.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:29   #36
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Again, only at gun shows. Just pacify the anti-gunners. We all know it won't really change anything. Let them think they have won something.

Folks could still meet at a gun show, walk out to the parking lot and do a face-to-face....we all understand that.

With how ignorant of all things firearms the anti-gunners are, they won't be able to grasp the specifics. They won't know it really does nothing. But they will not have that talking point to blab on T.V.
Add a 10 day waiting period and you have ENDED ALL GUN SHOWS and pretty much killed off private FTF sales.

Last edited by Z71bill; 12-19-2012 at 07:29..
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:32   #37
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I live in Virginia, and like many states, private FTF sales of used firearms are perfectly legal here. The federal government has no jurisdiction over these sales as no interstate commerce is taking place. It will be up to state governments to change or amend the laws pertaining to FTF sales. "Gun show loophole" is nothing more than catchy lingo for the media and antis to use.

Last edited by The Habit; 12-19-2012 at 07:34..
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:32   #38
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What I've never understood is this:

At it's first sale at a dealer, a handgun must enter the stream of commerce through an FFL.

So who's the moron who registers the gun in his name and then later sells it privately without an official transfer?

Gun gets used in a crime, who does it get traced back to? Last owner of record, yes?

Even if a private transfer is technically legal, why would you want that liability hanging over your head?

Same reason I've never understood the upside of straw purchases for the official buyer of record. Sure, somebody pays you to make the official buy, but then you're on the hook for whatever happens with that gun.
As has been discussed here numerous times, there is no liability. It is legal. The only moron is those who don't understand.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:36   #39
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How nice of you!



**** that noise!

Name a restriction to our firearms rights that has reduced crime OR reduced the lefts desire to take more...

Used to be we could buy a gun mail order and have it shipped to your home. Crime wasn't bad then.

Used to be a person didn't have to fill out a form to buy a gun, and crime wasn't bad then either...

Crime did escalate after that though.

Background checks, waiting periods, AWB's.... All in the name of compromise and to help stop crime. Never works though.

So no thanks.
I'm going to answer this, because you will most certainly not be the first person to NOT HAVE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE RESPONDING.

Now, if you go back to my last post, you will get further clarification.

Look, we firearms owners and the NRA are missing a big opportunity here. If the NRA supports closing the "gun-show loop-hole", as non-existant as it is, we can craft, write and submitt legislation for legislative approval. And in that manner be sure that it doesn't really infringe on our rights.

Big Health Care virtually wrote Obummer Care, because they were smart. We firearms owners and the NRA keep cutting off our nose to spite our face, and look COMPLETELY STUPID in the eyes of the media and the anti-gunners.

If we (through the NRA) support closing the gun-show loophole, and help to craft the legislation, we can have our rights virtually un-infringed, and take away a talking point of the anti-gunners.....at the same time.

We firearms owners would look responsible and caring about the situation, and we can still rest assured that face-to-face transactions of private sellers can still take place.

I call that a win-win-win.

Last edited by M&P15T; 12-19-2012 at 07:40..
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:38   #40
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Add a 10 day waiting period and you have ENDED ALL GUN SHOWS and pretty much killed off private FTF sales.
What part of "only at gun shows" is confusing you?
Again, if we (through the NRA) craft the legislation, we can make sure that FTF sales are not infringed upon.

The simple way to do this, is to force anyone that sets up a table inside a gun-show, to use 4473s and NICS. This will shut the idiots up.

It would NOT STOP folks from heading out to the parking lot (or driving a mile down the road) to do a FTF transaction, or infringe upon any other manner of FTF transaction.

This way the anti-gunners are satiated, and we still have lost nothing in our rights and freedoms.

Everyone else but us (through the NRA) is playing the political game. And we are may lose BIG, because we refuse to play them at their own game. It's all about political correctness, social agenda, and how we're viewed in the media. And we keep missing that.

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Old 12-19-2012, 07:40   #41
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There is no "gun show loophole." If someone wants to find a loophole, they could talk about a "private sale loophole" but, this happening at gun shows is no different than what takes place on armslist, gunbroker, GT classifieds or any brother-in-law deal that you've ever made. It's just a real life gun classifieds website with dealers as well as non dealers selling what they don't want. Dealers have to do checks to comply with their licensing and non dealers don't. It has nothing to do with it being a gun show. I've never understood how this has been perceived as some sort of loophole or go-around. I do agree, however, with letting the idea go on and using it as a bargaining chip in gun ban debates. They think they're banning something, while we know that it doesn't even exist. Win/win. This is all just my take on it though... You might think differently.


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Old 12-19-2012, 07:41   #42
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I've read the whole thread, and you are wrong. Just like I said in the reply you quoted. Get over yourself, you are not the first person willing to compromise someone's else's rights because you don't think it important.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:42   #43
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Close the gun show Loophole and right on its heels will be the requirement to transfer all gun sales between law abiding citizens through an FFL and pay for the privilege. Criminals, of course, will not be so burdened.

Some states already are at this level of control.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:44   #44
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Close the gun show Loophole and right on its heels will be the requirement to transfer all gun sales between law abiding citizuns through an FFL and pay for the privelege. Criminals, of course, will not be so burdened.
Exactly. They don't care about the "gun show loophole" they want all private sales regulated.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:51   #45
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I've read the whole thread, and you are wrong. Just like I said in the reply you quoted. Get over yourself, you are not the first person willing to compromise someone's else's rights because you don't think it important.
If you can't understand that doing so would in no way, shape or form "compromise someone else's rights", then you are representative of the stupidity of gun owners. You would rather lose the entire enchilada (ALL OF OUR RIGHTS), than bend (but NOT BREAK) on something that would make absolutely no difference.

I swear, there can be no doubt. Gun owners are our own worst enemy.

Last edited by M&P15T; 12-19-2012 at 07:56..
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:55   #46
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If you can't understand that doing so would in no way, shape or form "compromise someone else's rights", then you are representative of the stupidity of gun owners. You would rather lose the entire enchilada (ALL OF OUR RIGHTS), than bend (but NOT BREAK) on something that would make absolutely no difference.

I swear, there can be no doubt. Gun owners are there own worst enemy.
Agreed, but your kind are the problem as been proven time and again.

The fight hasn't even begun and you have already thought of a way to give something up. AND you are too stupid to realize they will not stop there. Even though there is a lot of history to learn from.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:57   #47
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Let me ask another way.

Has anyone every seen a private seller, with a table set-up inside a gunshow, selling firearms without NICS checks?
Yes, I've seen it first hand in gun shows in Texas. Even a guy whispered to me, "hey buddy, come closer, no papers needed" and winked to me.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:57   #48
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We have Fudds. Now we need a term for those among us who want to give the antis these little victories in hopes that they leave us alone.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:58   #49
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I call that a win-win-win.
While your concept is well though out and logical it will not gain traction here as you are dealing with Zealots. It's ok though as they are in the minority.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:59   #50
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The simple way to do this, is to force anyone that sets up a table inside a gun-show, to use 4473s and NICS. This will shut the idiots up.
"Force anyone that sets up a table...?"

Do you understand that the ONLY people who may use 4473's and NICS are actual FFL dealers, no one else; not 20 years ago, not today, and not in the future.

So what you are proposing is that only licensed dealers may set up a table (if selling firearms) inside of a gun show?

Last edited by Leigh; 12-19-2012 at 08:18..
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