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Old 12-19-2012, 06:37   #1
Psychman
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Gun show loop hole??

Can somebody explain exactly what is meant by this?

Every gun show I have been too requires the usual FBI background check prior to purchase unless the firearm is pre 1898.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:43   #2
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Face to face transactions between citizens, is what I believe is what they refer to as a "loophole"
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:43   #3
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Same question here. Are private sellers allowed to set-up tables inside gun-shows and sell firearms with out NICS checks?

Last edited by M&P15T; 12-19-2012 at 06:44..
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:45   #4
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Same question here. Are private sellers allowed to set-up tables inside gun-shows and sell firarms with out NICS checks?
According to NBC News "special reports" they are. They are set up in the back of the building "where there is less traffic" but everyone makes a B-line for those tables.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:45   #5
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A seller can setup a table of used Glocks or whatever and sell them to anyone without a background check.

This loophole should be closed and no law abiding gun owner should think otherwise. People that attain guns via this loophole and use them to commit crimes are endangering all our gun rights. Because apparently the right to bear arms is selective.
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Last edited by Chonny; 12-19-2012 at 06:47..
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:49   #6
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:49   #7
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Let me ask another way.

Has anyone every seen a private seller, with a table set-up inside a gunshow, selling firearms without NICS checks?

Last edited by M&P15T; 12-19-2012 at 06:58..
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:54   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chonny View Post
A seller can setup a table of used Glocks or whatever and sell them to anyone without a background check.

This loophole should be closed and no law abiding gun owner should think otherwise. People that attain guns via this loophole and use them to commit crimes are endangering all our gun rights. Because apparently the right to bear arms is selective.
What the hell is wrong with you?

I am a law abiding gun owner who prefers to buy his guns without the government's blessing or knowledge. 4473 is a defacto gun registry.

If you think that will somehow stop the trafficking of guns to felons intent on using them to commit crimes, you haven't studied black markets well enough.

Good God. With friends like you we certainly don't need enemies like the Brady Bunch.

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 12-19-2012 at 06:56..
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:56   #9
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Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:57   #10
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
What the hell is wrong with you?

I am a law abiding gun owner who prefers to buy his guns without the government's blessing or knowledge. 4473 is a defacto gun registry.

If you think that will somehow stop the trafficking of guns to felons intent on using them to commit crimes, you haven't studied black markets well enough.

Good God. With friends like you we certainly don't need enemies like the Brady Bunch.
Less ammo for the gun grabbers....but I get your point, slippery slope and all.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:58   #11
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I generally skip gun shows, so I can't say that I have.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:59   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Let me ask another way.

Has anyone every seen a private seller, with a table set-up inside a gunshow, selling firearms without NICS checks?
Yes, lots of times. Perfectly legal as it should be.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:01   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
What the hell is wrong with you?

I am a law abiding gun owner who prefers to buy his guns without the government's blessing or knowledge. 4473 is a defacto gun registry.

If you think that will somehow stop the trafficking of guns to felons intent on using them to commit crimes, you haven't studied black markets well enough.

Good God. With friends like you we certainly don't need enemies like the Brady Bunch.
He is another trolling that has been working overtime since last Friday.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:01   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
What the hell is wrong with you?

I am a law abiding gun owner who prefers to buy his guns without the government's blessing or knowledge. 4473 is a defacto gun registry.

If you think that will somehow stop the trafficking of guns to felons intent on using them to commit crimes, you haven't studied black markets well enough.

Good God. With friends like you we certainly don't need enemies like the Brady Bunch.
I think you missed the sarcasm.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:01   #15
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Let me ask another way.

Has anyone every seen a private seller, with a table set-up inside a gunshow, selling firearms without NICS checks?

Long guns, yes. Hand guns, no. At least here in PA. And the long gun folks don't have tables, they usually walk around the show, gun over shoulder, with "for sale" flag on barrel.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:02   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chonny View Post
A seller can setup a table of used Glocks or whatever and sell them to anyone without a background check.

This loophole should be closed and no law abiding gun owner should think otherwise. People that attain guns via this loophole and use them to commit crimes are endangering all our gun rights. Because apparently the right to bear arms is selective.
Note sarcastic tone of the part in bold.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:02   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chonny View Post
A seller can setup a table of used Glocks or whatever and sell them to anyone without a background check.

This loophole should be closed and no law abiding gun owner should think otherwise. People that attain guns via this loophole and use them to commit crimes are endangering all our gun rights. Because apparently the right to bear arms is selective.
Traitors among us....
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:04   #18
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I've seen a VERY few individuals walking around gun shows with a flag in their slung or holstered firearm declaring it for sale. I've also been approached several times with offers to buy my firearm (I'm not a dealer). I've bought a few firearms at gun shows but can not recall if I had to do a check or not (buying mostly C&R type firearms and a M1 carbine). Certainly the VAST majority of firearms for sale at a gun show are being sold by dealers who have to do the paperwork.

If they allow anyone to call the NICS system to get a "all ok" on anyone else then I don't think it would be all that intrusive. Maybe make it a $20 CC charge to discourage random checks. Of course thre is no need to mention which firearms are being sold, this is just a check that the individual is "cleared" to buy, right? Right?
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:04   #19
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Quote:
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Note sarcastic tone of the part in bold.
Not a chance. He has been doing it in a lot of threads. Anti-gunner
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:05   #20
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Let me ask another way.

Has anyone every seen a private seller, with a table set-up inside a gunshow, selling firearms without NICS checks?
YES - many times - some tables even had the same seller with some guns requiring a 4473 - other marked "private collection" no check required.

The used no check required guns were priced HIGHER than new guns - ON THE SAME TABLE.

This use to be common at the Pasadena gun show - but the last few shows - I have not noticed this - maybe they changed the rules at the show - but as far as I know this would still be legal.

Last edited by Z71bill; 12-19-2012 at 07:07..
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:06   #21
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Originally Posted by stolenphot0 View Post
Face to face transactions between citizens, is what I believe is what they refer to as a "loophole"

this


A buyer who cannot get a firearm legally is going to go this route. Be it at a gunshow or the local paper.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:08   #22
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Let me ask another way.

Has anyone every seen a private seller, with a table set-up inside a gunshow, selling firearms without NICS checks?
Not at any gun show I have ever been to. Then again, I normally get so frustrated at the crowd at those things that I just may not have ever stayed long enough to notice this. I would rather pay a bit more and not deal with the hassle. Same reason I don't shop on Black Friday.

Last edited by Roger1079; 12-19-2012 at 07:13..
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:08   #23
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What I've never understood is this:

At it's first sale at a dealer, a handgun must enter the stream of commerce through an FFL.

So who's the moron who registers the gun in his name and then later sells it privately without an official transfer?

Gun gets used in a crime, who does it get traced back to? Last owner of record, yes?

Even if a private transfer is technically legal, why would you want that liability hanging over your head?

Same reason I've never understood the upside of straw purchases for the official buyer of record. Sure, somebody pays you to make the official buy, but then you're on the hook for whatever happens with that gun.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:09   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chonny View Post
A seller can setup a table of used Glocks or whatever and sell them to anyone without a background check.

This loophole should be closed and no law abiding gun owner should think otherwise. People that attain guns via this loophole and use them to commit crimes are endangering all our gun rights. Because apparently the right to bear arms is selective.

Never seen that done but anything is possible.

I have seen signs pinned to the back of a persons jacket walking around saying they have a gun to trade or sell. If approached they simply leave the building and make the transaction or a sign in in the window of their car with a phone number to call. How you stop that? Do you have any data on how many of these private sales result in crimes.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:09   #25
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Yes, lots of times. Perfectly legal as it should be.
Weeeeell.....

I gotta mull this new info over. I did not know that such things occured.

On the face of it, if for no other reason than to remove the "gun show loop-hole" phrase from the anti-gunners lexicon, it might be wise to consider shutting it down.

I get the "slippery slope", I understand that the private sales of firearms has had little to do with any of these shootings. Still, perhaps if we supported not allowing private sales at gun shows, we could shut them up a bit.

I don't know.......it's a double edged sword. We don't need anymore gun legislation. But then criminals are most certainly getting their guns that way.

Screw it, I saw close it. Folks can still do face-to-face transactions free of governmental interference. Just make all gun show participants use NICS and 4473s.

I do think as responsible gun owners, it is incumbant on us to help make sure that criminals have as hard a time as possible getting firearms.

Flame suit on.

Last edited by M&P15T; 12-19-2012 at 07:16..
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