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Old 12-11-2012, 20:01   #21
farmer-dave
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I would think that if a tank was professionaly cleaned at removal and then sat for a while it might be aired out pretty well. I'm sure you'd know pretty quickly if it had a fume problem.
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Old 12-14-2012, 21:15   #22
Ruble Noon
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If it is a used tank? Deadly.
Cutting it open is the dangerous part.
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Old 12-14-2012, 22:58   #23
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Well I just want you guys to know that all this talk about basements and secret squirrel bunkers makes me realize that I can't have one, 'cause the water table where I live is only about 10ft ft. below ground level. I'm in flood zone too so I have to build everything a few feet above ground level.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:06   #24
bdcochran
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http://www.fedcenter.gov/assistance/...ks/aboveground

There is nationwide registration of fuel tanks of a certain and very low level of capacity.

There are also building and zoning codes in most counties.

The days of idyllic, remote living with nature concepts certainly will die hard in most people's dreams.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:20   #25
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Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post

The days of idyllic, remote living with nature concepts certainly will die hard in most people's dreams.
Ya had me up until this comment....

Just to clarify here, are you talking about the ability for someone to live in a fuel tank...

or

The ability for someone to build their own shelter/cabin on a remote parcel of land?

Thanks

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Old 12-15-2012, 10:50   #26
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Good question EMT.

Most people don't know (and a small group on this forum don't care either) that there is a Uniform Building Code that has been adopted by most states. In many states, there are county/city building and safety bureaus that enforce the state code and add wrinkles that are local.

The concept tramples over protestations that a person's home is his kingdom.

Most states do have mandatory building codes, but there are still 15 states where the existence of codes is a matter of local jurisdiction. Often it is the larger cities that opt for control of building practice, while the the more rural areas are freer. This is true in Alabama, Arkansas, Hawaii, Michigan, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Wyoming.

Some states have just a few counties that have yet to establish code requirements. In Arizona there is only one such county (Greenlee); in California there are three (Mendocino, Humbolt, and Nevada) that have adopted the liberal “Limited Density Rural Dwellings” program; Colorado has 15 open counties ); Iowa has eight free counties; Mississippi is mostly free, except for coastal areas where wind and flood codes are enforced.

So let's speak about the real world. Each street, every block, every small community has its inspector general. The Inspector General may be a bored housewife, a retired senior, a guy trying to sell his house. The Inspector General has many disguises. He spots YOU.

YOU have a noisy baby. YOU insist on parking the car on the front lawn and running your lawn mower at 6 am because you have to do something important at 9 am every Saturday morning and 6 am is the only time that you can mow your lawn. YOU let your dogs run free because God dictated that dogs should run free. Well, your neighbor gets pissed off at you and turns you in.

One neighbor didn't like the 6 kid legal day care across the street. When the illegal house addition was finished, he called the authorities.

One neighbor did not like the trash piling up in the next neighbor's yard and called Public Health who would inspect and issue citations every single year. It didn't matter that the first neighbor ran a crack house. The house was sold after the local cops said it could be confiscated and after a "girlfriend" tried to stuff the newborn down the toilet. Honest to God, I could not make this up.

The neighbor with the non running cars last licensed in 1985 and 1992 routinely turns in his neighbors too. Doesn't matter that he also makes cooing noises at 6 am every day to his two dogs!

So EMT, go ahead and put in whatever tank/underground shelter you want. Most people also cross their fingers when they do it.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:58   #27
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Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post
Good question EMT.

Most people don't know (and a small group on this forum don't care either) that there is a Uniform Building Code that has been adopted by most states. In many states, there are county/city building and safety bureaus that enforce the state code and add wrinkles that are local.

The concept tramples over protestations that a person's home is his kingdom.

Most states do have mandatory building codes, but there are still 15 states where the existence of codes is a matter of local jurisdiction. Often it is the larger cities that opt for control of building practice, while the the more rural areas are freer. This is true in Alabama, Arkansas, Hawaii, Michigan, Missouri, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Wyoming.

Some states have just a few counties that have yet to establish code requirements. In Arizona there is only one such county (Greenlee); in California there are three (Mendocino, Humbolt, and Nevada) that have adopted the liberal “Limited Density Rural Dwellings” program; Colorado has 15 open counties ); Iowa has eight free counties; Mississippi is mostly free, except for coastal areas where wind and flood codes are enforced.

So let's speak about the real world. Each street, every block, every small community has its inspector general. The Inspector General may be a bored housewife, a retired senior, a guy trying to sell his house. The Inspector General has many disguises. He spots YOU.

YOU have a noisy baby. YOU insist on parking the car on the front lawn and running your lawn mower at 6 am because you have to do something important at 9 am every Saturday morning and 6 am is the only time that you can mow your lawn. YOU let your dogs run free because God dictated that dogs should run free. Well, your neighbor gets pissed off at you and turns you in.

One neighbor didn't like the 6 kid legal day care across the street. When the illegal house addition was finished, he called the authorities.

One neighbor did not like the trash piling up in the next neighbor's yard and called Public Health who would inspect and issue citations every single year. It didn't matter that the first neighbor ran a crack house. The house was sold after the local cops said it could be confiscated and after a "girlfriend" tried to stuff the newborn down the toilet. Honest to God, I could not make this up.

The neighbor with the non running cars last licensed in 1985 and 1992 routinely turns in his neighbors too. Doesn't matter that he also makes cooing noises at 6 am every day to his two dogs!

So EMT, go ahead and put in whatever tank/underground shelter you want. Most people also cross their fingers when they do it.
Ok, so in short you were referring to the tanks/underground shelters....NOT building a shelter/cabin on a remote parcel of land.

Because when I read you saying that the days of dreaming about natural shelters were over I had to ask...

One day I hope to have at least one of those small shelters on that remote parcel of land. Call it a BOL or call it a place to retain sanity and escape the stress of daily life....just don't call it a thing of the past.

-Emt1581
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:32   #28
Ruble Noon
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Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post
http://www.fedcenter.gov/assistance/...ks/aboveground

There is nationwide registration of fuel tanks of a certain and very low level of capacity.

There are also building and zoning codes in most counties.

The days of idyllic, remote living with nature concepts certainly will die hard in most people's dreams.
Buy one from a scrap yard.
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Old 12-15-2012, 20:10   #29
bdcochran
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Responses to one assertion and a question

1. I had a woman friend who had her own underground gasoline storage tank and pump on her residential property, inside the City of Los Angeles. She had to nearly beg a major gasoline distributor to fill her tank.

Having represented a refinery with over 100 gasoline stations, I can assure you that the records are kept of gasoline deliveries. So, if you buy a scrap tank to avoid federal registration of fuel tanks and somehow get through local zoning without a problem, you still have to obtain the product. And, all it takes is one telephone call from FEMA or any governmental agency to get a list of customers.

2. Can I build a cabin on a remote piece of property? Sure, go ahead. If you don't violate the state building code, don't violate the local building code. Then again, most states like California do not allow random drilling for water. All water is controlled in water districts that issue/don't issue permits. Now, as for electricity, I am negotiating a situation where a large agricultural building is to be built on rural land. The problem that the guy has is that the local utility will change him $200,000 to pull the power just across the rural 1.5 lane road. So, remember, a utility can charge you for sewer hookup, pulling gas, electricity and water to your rural property.
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Old 12-15-2012, 20:48   #30
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Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post

2. Can I build a cabin on a remote piece of property? Sure, go ahead. If you don't violate the state building code, don't violate the local building code. Then again, most states like California do not allow random drilling for water. All water is controlled in water districts that issue/don't issue permits. Now, as for electricity, I am negotiating a situation where a large agricultural building is to be built on rural land. The problem that the guy has is that the local utility will change him $200,000 to pull the power just across the rural 1.5 lane road. So, remember, a utility can charge you for sewer hookup, pulling gas, electricity and water to your rural property.
That is a problem I won't have.

If I can't power it by solar or hydro (hopefully I'll find land with running water on it)... I'll do without. Hell, even in overcast my solar system will give me plenty of light each night. Throw in a hydro-electric system and I might even be able to power a mini-fridge.

I don't get my panties in a twist when the power goes out.

-Emt1581
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Old 12-18-2012, 13:14   #31
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bdcochran has some good advice. Being in the construction industry I deal with builders and building departments almost every day. Only in really rare circumstances do the building departments (i.e. Building Inspectors) require you to raze a structure and start over. Most of the time, if you can get the trades and professionals to sign an affidavit stating that the construction was to code or state/county standard then you are good to go. However, good luck finding an electrician, engineer, plumber, etc. that will sign off on your building post construction. If you want to go that route, hire the electrician, engineer, plumber, etc. prior and during the construction to make sure you get it right, then they can sign off on your project post construction - should you need it.

I spoke to our county official (just west of Denver, CO) about underground shelters and anything less than 200 square feet is considered an accessory building and only requires an "accessory building" permit - same as a large swing set, gazebo, pool house... I know, I know, and I'm with you, why should government be involved in the first place, but it's their job to tax us and the more usable space they can tax us, the more money the county/state make. Bottom line if you are so inclined to go the legal route, it probably won't be that big of a deal. Accessory buildings per code, do not require electricity, plumbing, ventilation, etc. It's just a building so you don't have to be worried about being required to light and insulate the place. Just call it a storage building.

As for underground shelters, stay away from the connex boxes and buried buses. For almost the same price you can get fully engineered and underground rated (even water proof) precast concrete shelters. They are beyond the do-it-yourselfer...unless you have an excavator and crane capable of lifting 40,000+ pounds, but are roomy and secure - even fireproof for the most part.

You can always go the CMU (cinderblock) route and build it yourself, but I suggest getting a little construction/engineering advice prior to stacking the blocks. You'll need to know what type of mortar/grout/concrete and rebar to use.
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Old 12-20-2012, 00:55   #32
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Lately, I've been researching alternative buildings such as earth bermed, compressed earth walls, earth bag buildings, shot-crete on bubble domes, and earth ships. Low footprint to means low operating costs. DW is on board with the idea.
Fire proof, tornado proof, flood proof, termite proof, burglar proof, (bullet proof)... You get the idea. I'm getting ready to move out, might as well do it myself and get it done right. Building codes can be a below-minimum standard to some. I'm looking for land now.
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:18   #33
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Take earthquakes inta the mix.'08.
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Old 12-20-2012, 20:58   #34
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Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post
Good question EMT.

Most people don't know (and a small group on this forum don't care either) that there is a Uniform Building Code that has been adopted by most states. In many states, there are county/city building and safety bureaus that enforce the state code and add wrinkles that are local.

The concept tramples over protestations that a person's home is his kingdom.
Oh? What happens when your underground ****hole bunker or survival farm starts to screw with MY property and MY house because its half-assed? What then?

Building codes exist for a reason and I wholly support them. Now...do they get excessive? Thats another story.
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Old 12-20-2012, 21:31   #35
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Oh? What happens when your underground ****hole bunker or survival farm starts to screw with MY property and MY house because its half-assed? What then?

Building codes exist for a reason and I wholly support them. Now...do they get excessive? Thats another story.
In what way starts to screw with your property and your house? Just curious.
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