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Old 12-14-2012, 09:36   #201
.264 magnum
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Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
Thats because your point didn't matter.

They use the same hardware. Thats the point that matters. A Mac's perceived longevity is not due to some magically better parts. Its due to the OS and drivers being proprietary and it being harder to muck up the computer with crap software.

You can build a PC with any parts you want. You can build a PC with the exact same parts with the same part numbers that a Mac uses if you want.
I'm not arguing any of that.

My point is that, and I've got a drawer full of old HDDs from computers long forgotten, I've never seen a Fujitsu HDD in any off the shelf PC or PC laptop. And I've pulled them out of at least three of my Macs. Fujitsu drives were more expensive and their drives enjoyed a great reputation.

Although subject to small sample size problems that's evidence that Apple used/uses? better parts.

If you ever digest that point we can then move on to screen quality and anti-scratch screen coatings that Apple laptops have used for years and to great effect.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:40   #202
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The "I don't get viruses" thing cracks me up. Viruses are NOT inherent to the PC platform, just to ignorant use of it. I've had zero in my last decade of PC use because I know how to run a PC.

Oh, and THREE of my MacBook Pro using friends have gotten viruses. They do exist for Mac.

That said, I don't begrudge Mac, they provide a well-built product that will run well for the tech illiterate. Heck, I'm typing this on an iPhone, which as a diehard PC user I find superior to Android. Just as long as you are aware of and accept, instead of trying to debate, that you're getting absolutely raped price-wise for the usually mid-line components.

Not to mention that if you know how to build your own PC, you can build a desktop system that is faster than ANY built by apple. i7 with Ivy Bridge architecture, parallel GeForce GTX 690s, a few Corsair M4 512GB SSDs, and 32 gigs of Corsair Vengeance 2133 DDR3? Fuggadaboutit! As for build quality, just don't scrimp, buy a nice $200-300 ATX Mid-Tower, there are those even nicer than Mac build quality.

Not that that is especially cheap either, though, haha.
1. Clearly you are very unbiased - LOL! - "raped price-wise".
2. Macs start shipping with Intel "Haswell" or whatever chips in a few months. Good luck with your Ivy Bridge home-brew then.

ETA - You sure about your friends with Macs and viruses?
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:44   #203
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No mention of the multitouch trackpad yet. It's one of the biggest differentiators IMO because it is the primary user interface. To the best of my knowledge no one else has been able to get it right.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:46   #204
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I love the track pad gestures.
Best thing about my Macs.
If only the rest of the OS experience wasn't so underwhelming.

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Old 12-14-2012, 09:47   #205
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The 15" MBP Retina is arguably the finest laptop ever made
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:50   #206
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Key word arguably.

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Old 12-14-2012, 09:51   #207
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I'm not arguing any of that.

My point is that, and I've got a drawer full of old HDDs from computers long forgotten, I've never seen a Fujitsu HDD in any off the shelf PC or PC laptop. And I've pulled them out of at least three of my Macs. Fujitsu drives were more expensive and their drives enjoyed a great reputation.

Although subject to small sample size problems that's evidence that Apple used/uses? better parts.
So your entire arguement revolves around a single brand of SATA drive that you like the best? I used to get into that argument when trying to order replacement drives from HP. I saw Seagates, Fujitsus, Hitachis, and Western Digitals in those computers. The Seagates were the worst.

Although, to be fair to you, the amount of computers I see almost certainly trump your sample group, so I can't hold that against you. But you're still flat wrong.

Quote:
If you ever digest that point we can then move on to screen quality and anti-scratch screen coatings that Apple laptops have used for years and to great effect.
Okay, again a point that doesn't matter. Apple is only one of many laptop manufacturers. The others have their own lineup of toughbooks and high quality screens and have for years as well.

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Old 12-14-2012, 09:56   #208
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1. Clearly you are very unbiased - LOL! - "raped price-wise".
2. Macs start shipping with Intel "Haswell" or whatever chips in a few months. Good luck with your Ivy Bridge home-brew then.

ETA - You sure about your friends with Macs and viruses?
Haswells are still a 22nm chip, the best realistic increase they can boast is better integrated graphics which always have been and will continue to be a joke for years to come.

But you can kiss your battery life goodbye when you're running an 84w chip, I'll tell you that much.

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Old 12-14-2012, 10:03   #209
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Originally Posted by .264 magnum View Post
1. Clearly you are very unbiased - LOL! - "raped price-wise".
2. Macs start shipping with Intel "Haswell" or whatever chips in a few months. Good luck with your Ivy Bridge home-brew then.

ETA - You sure about your friends with Macs and viruses?
1.) Macs cost more than the quality of the parts in them justifies. That's not hard to understand. You're paying for an OS, customer service, and mostly a brand name. And obviously I'm biased and never claimed not to be. Back at you. We're all biased toward our choices.

2.) My point stands. No Mac desktop will ever touch a maximum-high-end PC. You'll most likely never be able to buy one that does. Whatever the newest architecture is, I'll be able to buy it in no time.

And yes, I'm sure about my Mac friends getting viruses/malware because as our group's tech nerd I tried to help fix them. Their names are Kevin, Sara, and Will. Shall I get you their phone numbers or would you like to imply I'm lying again?

Edit:

Just looked around about Haswell. Most of the performance upgrade is in integrated graphics - for people without a dedicated graphics card. I also see no indication that Mac gets them any significant amount of time before they hit the PC market.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:20   #210
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Originally Posted by John Rambo View Post
So your entire arguement revolves around a single brand of SATA drive that you like the best? I used to get into that argument when trying to order replacement drives from HP. I saw Seagates, Fujitsus, Hitachis, and Western Digitals in those computers. The Seagates were the worst.

Although, to be fair to you, the amount of computers I see almost certainly trump your sample group, so I can't hold that against you. But you're still flat wrong.

Okay, again a point that doesn't matter. Apple is only one of many laptop manufacturers. The others have their own lineup of toughbooks and high quality screens and have for years as well.
Oh man. I'm using the Fujitsu HDD thing as a simple way to illustrate the point that Apple generally chooses to source better components than most PCs.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:24   #211
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Haswells are still a 22nm chip, the best realistic increase they can boast is better integrated graphics which always have been and will continue to be a joke for years to come.

But you can kiss your battery life goodbye when you're running an 84w chip, I'll tell you that much.
Does someone actually pay you for IT-ish work? Intel says battery life will double for many machines with the Haswell chips. You say it will suck. Whom to believe?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/20121...next-year.html
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:31   #212
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Originally Posted by LawScholar View Post
1.) Macs cost more than the quality of the parts in them justifies. That's not hard to understand. You're paying for an OS, customer service, and mostly a brand name. And obviously I'm biased and never claimed not to be. Back at you. We're all biased toward our choices.

2.) My point stands. No Mac desktop will ever touch a maximum-high-end PC. You'll most likely never be able to buy one that does. Whatever the newest architecture is, I'll be able to buy it in no time.

And yes, I'm sure about my Mac friends getting viruses/malware because as our group's tech nerd I tried to help fix them. Their names are Kevin, Sara, and Will. Shall I get you their phone numbers or would you like to imply I'm lying again?

Edit:

Just looked around about Haswell. Most of the performance upgrade is in integrated graphics - for people without a dedicated graphics card. I also see no indication that Mac gets them any significant amount of time before they hit the PC market.

And battery life and speed versus heat metrics......
I read something yesterday stating that Apple would have Haswells for months before anyone else in terms of sellable products.

1. I know we are all biased. I thought you "raped proce-wise" comment was funny.

2. As an IT go to guy it makes sense you'd be more likely to see Mac-viruses than others. MY comment sounded more like a cheap shot than intended sorry for that.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:33   #213
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Does someone actually pay you for IT-ish work? Intel says battery life will double for many machines with the Haswell chips. You say it will suck. Whom to believe?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/20121...next-year.html
Glock also said Gen 4 would be an improvement. That's marketing. I'll believe associated claims when they're tested by tomshardware et. al.

That said, intel has done smashing work these last few years and I tend to believe their claims.

And no apology necessary, we're debatin' our faves, it's liable to get heated
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:48   #214
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I love both my macbook and my desktop pc

I love my macbook for college/general web surfing, especially since I can have the best of both worlds with microsoft office 12.

I also love my pc I built it from the ground up and learned a lot. It is extremely powerful for my gaming and multimedia purposes. I paid about the same for both and you can certainly get more power at the same cost building your own pc.

That being said, I guess I would be in the middle of the road on this one because I think both operating systems have their own unique uses!

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Old 12-14-2012, 10:59   #215
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Oh man. I'm using the Fujitsu HDD thing as a simple way to illustrate the point that Apple generally chooses to source better components than most PCs.
And I'm telling you that you're wrong and illustrating why you're wrong with a vastly greater sample group. You just aren't accepting it.

Stop comparing your 2k Mac to a 300 dollar computer and the parts won't be different.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:02   #216
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Originally Posted by .264 magnum View Post
Does someone actually pay you for IT-ish work? Intel says battery life will double for many machines with the Haswell chips. You say it will suck. Whom to believe?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/20121...next-year.html
After reading more, it looks like they're going to have mobile processors down to 10w TDP. If thats the case, that will substantially increase battery live vs. Ivy Bridge. We'll see.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:04   #217
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Originally Posted by LawScholar View Post
1.) Macs cost more than the quality of the parts in them justifies. That's not hard to understand. You're paying for an OS, customer service, and mostly a brand name. And obviously I'm biased and never claimed not to be. Back at you. We're all biased toward our choices.

2.) My point stands. No Mac desktop will ever touch a maximum-high-end PC. You'll most likely never be able to buy one that does. Whatever the newest architecture is, I'll be able to buy it in no time.

And yes, I'm sure about my Mac friends getting viruses/malware because as our group's tech nerd I tried to help fix them. Their names are Kevin, Sara, and Will. Shall I get you their phone numbers or would you like to imply I'm lying again?

Edit:

Just looked around about Haswell. Most of the performance upgrade is in integrated graphics - for people without a dedicated graphics card. I also see no indication that Mac gets them any significant amount of time before they hit the PC market.
Really? Compared to a fully loaded Mac Pro
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:07   #218
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Really? Compared to a fully loaded Mac Pro
Really. Does Mac sell a computer with dual graphics cards totaling 6-8GB of GDDR5, 32GB of ultra high speed 2133 DDR3 RAM, a terabyte of the highest speed SSD drives, a motherboard that supports every conceivable input, and not just proprietary ones? Because I can build that for about 3k.

Edit:

Just pulled up the Mac Pro specs...

K, Mac Pro has, at max, two Radeon 5770 cards. I can build with linked 5970s or GTX 690s that are faster.

Mac Pro can do 12-core Xeon processors. Better for some applications like editing but raw high performance in gaming/video playback I'd want i7.

Holy crap, the Mac Pro doesn't even have USB 3.0 ports, only 2.0

32GB RAM or 64GB on their 12-core systems. That's outstanding! but I would bet it's not 2133 or even 1833 ultra-high-spec.

And let's not forget that for what Mac charges I could build two of mine. :-/
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:34   #219
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Really. Does Mac sell a computer with dual graphics cards totaling 6-8GB of GDDR5, 32GB of ultra high speed 2133 DDR3 RAM, a terabyte of the highest speed SSD drives, a motherboard that supports every conceivable input, and not just proprietary ones? Because I can build that for about 3k.

Edit:

Just pulled up the Mac Pro specs...

K, Mac Pro has, at max, two Radeon 5770 cards. I can build with linked 5970s or GTX 690s that are faster.

Mac Pro can do 12-core Xeon processors. Better for some applications like editing but raw high performance in gaming/video playback I'd want i7.

Holy crap, the Mac Pro doesn't even have USB 3.0 ports, only 2.0

32GB RAM or 64GB on their 12-core systems. That's outstanding! but I would bet it's not 2133 or even 1833 ultra-high-spec.

And let's not forget that for what Mac charges I could build two of mine. :-/
Wait. Now you're comparing a DIY custom build to pre built?
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:49   #220
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Any builder like Cyberpower will build it for not much markup

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Old 12-14-2012, 11:59   #221
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This escalated quickly!

I love my new MacBook, but dang guys!
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:17   #222
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Wait. Now you're comparing a DIY custom build to pre built?
I was from the very start...I don't buy desktop systems pre-built. It's not necessary with a decent bit of tech knowledge.

Note my first post on the matter.

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Not to mention that if you know how to build your own PC, you can build a desktop system that is faster than ANY built by apple.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:29   #223
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Really. Does Mac sell a computer with dual graphics cards totaling 6-8GB of GDDR5, 32GB of ultra high speed 2133 DDR3 RAM, a terabyte of the highest speed SSD drives, a motherboard that supports every conceivable input, and not just proprietary ones? Because I can build that for about 3k.

Edit:

Just pulled up the Mac Pro specs...

K, Mac Pro has, at max, two Radeon 5770 cards. I can build with linked 5970s or GTX 690s that are faster.

Mac Pro can do 12-core Xeon processors. Better for some applications like editing but raw high performance in gaming/video playback I'd want i7.

Holy crap, the Mac Pro doesn't even have USB 3.0 ports, only 2.0

32GB RAM or 64GB on their 12-core systems. That's outstanding! but I would bet it's not 2133 or even 1833 ultra-high-spec.

And let's not forget that for what Mac charges I could build two of mine. :-/
I could build 3 very high end systems for what Mac charges.

I know because I built one, just 4 months ago. They don't make a Mac that can touch it.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:35   #224
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Well, its always cheaper to build than to buy. In pretty much anything.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:35   #225
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I was from the very start...I don't buy desktop systems pre-built. It's not necessary with a decent bit of tech knowledge.

Note my first post on the matter.
I gotcha.

I don't and have no interest in it.

If I could find the same user experience off the shelf from another company at a better price I'd buy it. I haven't seen it though.
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