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Old 12-13-2012, 23:24   #21
The-Fly
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Not a copper here, just a cake eating civilian. But it looked perfectly legit in my eyes.

Scumbag played a stupid game, and won a stupid prize.
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Old 12-14-2012, 00:00   #22
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I feel that the suspect getting his foot caught in the seat belt saved the officers life. I love how people treat 20' like it's a mile. 20' is to close for someone with an edged weapon. Completely justified.

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Old 12-14-2012, 00:14   #23
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I call it a MSR - minimum standard response (not mine, gleaned from another trainer). You fire as many as NEEDED to stop the threat. For some humans, this is one round, for others, 33 (remember the Calibre Press photo in their first book). How many rounds did Platt & Matix sustain before stopping?

I hope the city holds against this family but I suspect they will get their money with their attorney taking the lion's share.
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:50   #24
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13 rounds in a 4.2 seconds? Inefficient! The German MG-42 is nearly 7 times faster per second.

P.S. Beck is an alcoholic and a drug abuser. Two groups who are considered inimical to LE. He is embraces only certain aspects of classic liberalism and fails to comprehend the 'social contract' as postulated by Hobbes. As to being a d-bag... I'd throat punch him.
God I love you, old man.

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Old 12-14-2012, 01:50   #25
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Not a copper here, just a cake eating civilian. But it looked perfectly legit in my eyes.

Scumbag played a stupid game, and won a stupid prize.
We need to meet up dude.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:27   #26
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We need to meet up dude.
Agreed, what shift are you on now?
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:54   #27
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Crappy swings.

I have Tues through Thurs off.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:35   #28
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:00   #29
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Around here that is passe, shoot till neutralized is what is trained now....
A detective in my dept shot a knife-wielding guy under the old '2 and assess' approach, and the perp, hit both times, kept coming.

Today he espouses 'shoot until the threat stops.'




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Old 12-14-2012, 09:13   #30
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We need to meet up dude.
Swing by here first and get me.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:01   #31
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
That's sig-line worthy, and will be stolen momentarily!
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:15   #32
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Looks like a good shoot to me. +1 on Beck being a whackjob d-bag half a rung down the crazy ladder from Alex Jones.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:20   #33
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4.2 seconds is a moot point. It could have been 2 seconds or 10 seconds, it does not matter. You are either justified or not justified to use deadly force to protect yourself or others.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:16   #34
The-Fly
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Crappy swings.

I have Tues through Thurs off.
fair enough, we'll work something out.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:19   #35
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The first round is a moral decision. All of the following rounds are tactical decisions.
I nominate this for a sticky!
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Old 12-14-2012, 14:48   #36
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Crappy swings.

I have Tues through Thurs off.
crappy shift with crappy days off. Someone loved you.
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Old 12-14-2012, 14:49   #37
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4.2 seconds is a moot point. It could have been 2 seconds or 10 seconds, it does not matter. You are either justified or not justified to use deadly force to protect yourself or others.
Only until the threat has stopped. Some spiffy lawyer will find some crafty way to make a jury think that 4.2 seconds is long enough to draft a presidential address, let alone long enough to determine if a threat is over.

As far as I'm concerned, 4.2 seconds is just long enough to engage and [B]begin[/B ]to assess a threat in a dynamic situation. Lets not forget that there are multiple stimuli and potential threats.
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Old 12-14-2012, 15:28   #38
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I suspect expert witnesses may play a part in this one.
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Old 12-14-2012, 17:30   #39
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13 shots in 4.2 seconds? Not bad. We sometimes do timed dirlls at the range head to head who can hit plates accurately for time. It is not outside the realm of reason.
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Old 12-14-2012, 18:02   #40
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A detective in my dept shot a knife-wielding guy under the old '2 and assess' approach, and the perp, hit both times, kept coming.

Today he espouses 'shoot until the threat stops.'




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Are his initials R.B.?

The only time I ever heard about "3 shots and reassess" was after the Sean Bell incident, where Popeye said that was how cops were trained.
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