Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-2012, 21:46   #641
Ruggles
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tejas
Posts: 9,876
I think the .357 Sig outperforms the 9mm in any of it's + formats, regardless of how many of those +s you tack onto the 9mm.
Ruggles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 22:18   #642
clarkstoncz
Senior Member
 
clarkstoncz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,042
Yes, few Handgunners can find or buy 9mm+P+, but .357 SIG can be found online or in most
shops.

Most 9mms were never made for +P+ but the .357 SIG ( at least the Glocks)
are .40 caliber rated guns with the 3 pins that Glock went to after the CHP
trials.

.357 SIG guns do wear out faster but I don't shoot that much these days..
as I once did with my agency(s) paying for ammo.

Granted it was 9mm+P and .357 Magnum back then.

I truly wish that :

A. Gen 4 Glock 33s were more available.

B. CZ would offer .357 SIG guns to us.
They have been playing around with for a few years now.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by clarkstoncz; 10-25-2012 at 22:20..
clarkstoncz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 09:02   #643
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck TX View Post
Who is still making 357sig models besides Sig and Glock?



~20 or so agencies seem to have it as the issued caliber. Many seem to be Highway Patrol who were nostalgic for the .357Mag. Guess they couldn't handle the 10mm.
This brings up a related thought. I wonder how well the .357 Sig does on engine blocks?
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 10:21   #644
dkf
Senior Member
 
dkf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
This brings up a related thought. I wonder how well the .357 Sig does on engine blocks?
For that......Grab the .50bmg and leave the handguns at home.
dkf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 11:24   #645
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkf View Post
For that......Grab the .50bmg and leave the handguns at home.
HehHehHehHeh. That's right. A .50 BMG!
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 21:11   #646
Frank V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: S.W. Montana
Posts: 612
Heck just get a G22 or G23, add Lone Wolf bbls in 9mm & .357 Sig???

The best of all worlds!

Ok nobody shoot!
Frank
__________________
U.S.A. "RIDE FOR THE BRAND OR LEAVE!"

Last edited by Frank V; 10-31-2012 at 21:12..
Frank V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2012, 13:29   #647
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,034
That

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank V View Post
Heck just get a G22 or G23, add Lone Wolf bbls in 9mm & .357 Sig???

The best of all worlds!

Ok nobody shoot!
Frank
is a good idea!
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 10:19   #648
clarkstoncz
Senior Member
 
clarkstoncz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,042
I thunk the 147 is very interested in .357 SIG.

Givs one somehting that you Usually don't see with the 147..that being over
1,000 fps in most guns.

The DT 147 Bonded Defense looks to be a neat addition to the BD line that
uses Gold Dot bullets.

Caliber Corner

Proven Gold Dot performance at enhanced velocity over what what you will find in a
147 grain 9mm load.

The 147s also seem to produce less flash and felt blast/recoil than the hotter
125 and 115 gr. loads, esp. out of the Glock 33.

This Bonded Defense load should be no different.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
clarkstoncz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 10:31   #649
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC View Post
I don't think you're going to find a 9+p+ with over 600ft lbs.
I get just over 500 FPE with my G17 firing WW 115gr JHP +p+.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 12:49   #650
9mm +p+
Senior Member
 
9mm +p+'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: KS
Posts: 2,430
What a truly stupid thread, Not the OP's original question but all of the juvenile bickering over nothing. And praise for a man who is a so called "expert" but does nothing but push what is already known and yet folks just worship this guy. A 300gr XTP is the ultimate 44 mag SD load you know, yeah right. My wang is bigger than yours, really? Carry what you want, i happen to like the 357 SIG, is it better than rd X? Depends, all that really matters is that you can shoot it accurately under stress. Be it a 9 or 357 or 40/45, they all work, if you do your part.
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum
9mm +p+ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 13:21   #651
T-Rod45
Loves The Glock
 
T-Rod45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
just how many police departments use the .357 Sig?
Here is a list compiled from another thread:


Quote:
Originally Posted by PattonT View Post
Alameda County
Delaware State Police (First to adopt the 357 SIG)
Dallas, Texas Police
Federal Air Marshals
Federal Protective Services (FPS) Special Agents for General Services Administration (GSA) - P229
Keizer Police Department, Oregonhttp://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19675788#post19675788
La Porte County Indiana Sheriff's Department
Las Vegas Metro Police (allowed use of)
Liberty Twp Police Dept, Ohio
Maine Aroostook County Sheriff's Office
Maine Game Wardens (P226)
Maricopa County [Phoenix] Arizona Sheriff's Office/MCSO
Montcalm County (Michigan) Sheriff's Office
Montana State Police
New Jersey Division of Fish & Game
New Mexico State Police
Niles Police Dept, Ohio
Northwood Police Dept, ND
NC Highway Patrol
NC Wake County Sheriff's Department
NC Wildlife Enforcement Officers
Nueces County Sheriff Department, Texas (Sigpro)
Oakland County Sheriff's Dept, Michigan
Oklahoma Hwy patrol
Orange Police Dept, CT (sig pro, SP2340 .357)
Orlando PD (plainclothes officers)
Oxford, Mississippi
Richmond, Virginia
Rocky Mount Police Dept, Rocky Mount, NC
Springfield, IL
Union County Sheriff's Office, Marysville, Ohio (Glock 31)
Texas, DPS
United States (GSA) - Office of Inspector General (OIG) Special Agents - P229
United States Secret Service
Virginia State Police

Agencies using 357 Sig in Tennessee

THP: Glock 31& G33
TWRA: Glock 31
Bartlett PD: Sig 226 357Sig
Hamblen Co: Glock 32
Lawrence Co: Glock 31
Millan PD: Glock 31
Pleasant View PD: ? 357 Sig
Springfield PD: ? 357Sig
__________________
•21SF gen3
•26 gen3
•20 gen3 (sold)
•23 Gen4 (/19 conversion)
•M&P •Ruger •Smith&Wesson •Kel-Tec •Mossberg •LWRC •Glades Gun Works
T-Rod45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 14:11   #652
Iceman cHucK
Senior Member
 
Iceman cHucK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: WA state
Posts: 463
PA Wildlife agents carried G31. Don't know if they still do?
Iceman cHucK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 15:36   #653
digilo
Senior Member
 
digilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: texas
Posts: 303
I have a friend on the Tx DPS and he likes the .357SIG, but, he'd rather the 9mm or .40 strictly for the fact that 357SIG costs so much to practice with, whereas 9mm/40 is more affordable. As far as terminal performance, they're all happy with it.
__________________
Taste the wares, Email.
digilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2012, 18:57   #654
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruggles View Post
I think the .357 Sig outperforms the 9mm in any of it's + formats, regardless of how many of those +s you tack onto the 9mm.
Your definitely correct. The case capacity of the .357 Sig is much larger than the 9x19.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 18:15   #655
scottyd2506
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrecisionRifleman View Post
I seriously doubt a hot 125gr 357 sig @1400fps is going to make any difference over a 155gr 40S&W @1300fps. I'll take a larger, heavier bullet going fast over a smaller/lighter bullet going a little faster. Really if anything its a wash, but the 40 is more versatile in loads and bullet weights. What evidence do you have showing the 357 sig as being any better?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Been reading here for some time and thought Id post.
I used to carry a 45 acp and 44 mag back in the 80's
I never could understand why the one shot stats of the 357 was the best
The 9, 40, 45 and 357 sig are all lethal, would not feel under-gunned with either of them. and would not want to be shot by none of them or anything

If you look at paper ballistics or gel tests, there is not much difference.
But if you look at REAL WORLD results, or ask police who have used them, then there may be some difference.

The King of Kings the 357 magnum 4 inch revolver with either 125 Federal or Remington JHP? at 1450 fps

what did it having going for it?
.
and what makes the "lightning bolt effect"?

Good bullet expansion
Good penetration
and super sonic speeds


Bullet speed while going out of the end of a barrel it totally different that the speed of it going through a human body.

I think the "lightning bolt effect" is a combination of a bullet that has expanded and is still moving OVER the speed of sound while traveling through a attackers body.

a bullet that is still breaking the sound barrier while it is going through vital organs of the body. and the speed of sound is around 1100 fps

the combination of a good expanding bullet with at least a .140 sectional density and moving around 1400 fps from the muzzle seems to be the ticket.

This has PROVEN to work in REAL LIFE.

We know bullets start slowing down dramatically when they hit clothing and flesh.
a bullet has clothing, layers of fat and muscle to go through before reaching vital organs.
it would seem a good expanding bullet at 1350-1450 fps and enough sectional density will still have the sonic crack inside the vital organs.

Too little bullet sectional density and the bullet slows down to under the speed of sound before it hits vital organs, too little velocity and not enough momentum to have bullet keep hyper velocity into vital organs.

the 155 grain 40 caliber bullet has a sectional density around .140.
but the best 40 S&W can launch a 155 is at 1300 fps

Same for 9mm +p+ 124 at 1300 fps.

the bullet may stay hyper into the inch of so of fat and inch of muscle but not into the vital organs.
This all of course can change depending on the size of the person.

the 9mm +p+ 115 at 1400 fps. it has the velocity but the shorter bullet loses too much velocity too quick
Long bullet lose less velocity and penetrate deeper.

the 9mm +p+, 40 S&W and .45 acp can not get 1400 fps with a good expanding bullet that has a Sd of at least .140.
(not out of barrels of 4 to 4.5 inches)

the 357 sig can launch a 125 JHP at 1500 fps from a 4 inch barrel.

the 10mm can launch 155;s at 1500 fps.

44 magnum can get 180's to 1600 fps from a 6 inch bbl. but those bullets are mainly for large game hunting and will do little expansion of human attackers.

Also in defense of the 40 and 9mm I would say a 5 1/2 or 6 inch barrel 9mm firing Underwood 124 +p+ would reach close to 1400 fps or 40 SW 155 would also be around 1400 fps and would be better. (more rounds for the 9 and more caliber for the 40)

the 357 sig with a 5.5 or 6 inch would probably get 1650 fps, but too much velocity can down grade performance on soft bullets. a 9x25 may launch at 125 at 1700 fps from a 6 inch bbl but bullet may frag at impact.

the Legendary 357 mag with 125 jhp for 96% one shot stops may never be beaten, the Texas State police have a 100% success rate with the 357 sig, Virgina has like 99%
but of those, what are one shot stops?
the 125 gold dot by underwood at 1450-1500 fps
would surly be better than the Speer gold dot loads of 1350-1400 fps from 4 and 4.5 inch bbls



Today people are much bigger than 35-25 years ago
better stronger drugs (meth etc) also, it is safe to say the old 357 in today's world would never get 96% one shot stops on drugged out felons attackers. but who knows.

Like I said above the proof is there. not sure how many are one shot stops/ but if Texas has 100% success and another state 99% isn't that 99.5% avg?

many police agencies have records of shooting a attacker with 45 40 and 9mm unloading a whole magazine into them and they don't stop.

I'm sure as data is collected there will be some 357 fails.

As it stands now the success rate of the 357 sig is pretty high, and been around for many years in those agencies too. the real world proof is there if you look for it.

take care
scottyd2506 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 18:33   #656
unit1069
Senior Member
 
unit1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: So. Central US
Posts: 8,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyd2506 View Post
Bullet speed while going out of the end of a barrel it totally different that the speed of it going through a human body.

I think the "lightning bolt effect" is a combination of a bullet that has expanded and is still moving OVER the speed of sound while traveling through a attackers body.

a bullet that is still breaking the sound barrier while it is going through vital organs of the body. and the speed of sound is around 1100 fps

the combination of a good expanding bullet with at least a .140 sectional density and moving around 1400 fps from the muzzle seems to be the ticket.

This has PROVEN to work in REAL LIFE.
I tend to agree with you, scotty. There's a convergence of bullet design/velocity in handguns that create an ever-evolving window of effectiveness.

In the early 1900s the .38 Special didn't get the job done for the military so the .45ACP was developed, which still works to this day.

In the 1920s the .38 Super was created and from what I can tell it's still a credible (if expensive) self-defense caliber available in the 1911 platform. It seems to me that the .357sig is a bit more formidable with twice the ammo capacity, with the .38 Super having more bullet weight options available for those who reload.

In the 1930s the .38 Special had issues for LEO so the .357 Magnum was created and to this day is the standard by which all other handgun effectiveness is measured.

I'm no ballistics expert my any measurement but from what I can tell the .357 Magnum is the best single all-round handgun caliber for personal self-defense purposes if one doesn't consider magazine/gun capacity.
__________________
Rocket Scientist
unit1069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 19:22   #657
Tiro Fijo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
...In the early 1900s the .38 Special didn't get the job done for the military so the .45ACP was developed, which still works to this day...

Actually, primary historical sources show that the .45 Colt SAA's, that were hastily "un-mothballed" during the Philipine Insurrection, did no better against the Moros due to the pointy lead bullet used that usually zipped right through an adversary. Elmer Keith wrote of this.

Quote:
In the 1920s the .38 Super was created and from what I can tell it's still a
credible (if expensive) self-defense caliber available in the 1911 platform...
The .38 Super was designed as a better way to penetrate auto bodies as well as primitive 1st Gen body armour during the Gangster Era.


Quote:
In the 1930s the .38 Special had issues for LEO so the .357 Magnum was created
and to this day is the standard by which all other handgun effectiveness is measured.

Actually, Doug Wesson designed it a hunting round.

Quote:

I'm no ballistics expert...
You ain't an historian either.
Tiro Fijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 22:06   #658
unit1069
Senior Member
 
unit1069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: So. Central US
Posts: 8,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
The .38 Super was designed as a better way to penetrate auto bodies as well as primitive 1st Gen body armour during the Gangster Era.
Are you telling us the handgun calibers/loads at that time lacked certain abilities that LEO deemed necessary, leading to the creation of the .38 Super?
__________________
Rocket Scientist
unit1069 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 22:34   #659
dkf
Senior Member
 
dkf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,750
The .38super is based off the .38acp.(same case dimensions) The .38acp predates the era of the notorious gangsters of the prohibition era by decades. The Colt 1900 could not handle the .38acp in original form (which was close to .38super) so they scaled it back. When the more robust 1911 came about they could go to the more powerful .38super.

Last edited by dkf; 12-10-2012 at 22:36..
dkf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 14:59   #660
Coffee Dog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncz View Post
Texas and other depts could switch to the .40 but they don't.



The .357 SIG offers this over the Forty:

Lower recoil.

Improved accuracy

superior tactical penetration.

Superior Stopping Power with most loads than any other common police
calibers.

Or at least us .357 owners think so.
Lets not forget that this is the best feeding caliber making it very,very reliable.
Coffee Dog is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:43.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 622
145 Members
477 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31