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Old 12-09-2012, 18:54   #176
Ruggles
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Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor View Post
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...nsadatacenter/

BTW, you didn't swear an oath, you just said the words.
Well get off you internet posting arse and arm up man. Go go go! The future of my kids depend upon you taking a armed stand against the evil government. Or of course you could react like an adult and try to effect change thru the elective process like the founders intended.

Your oath was no more or no less meaningful than mine.

But just so I understand, either I agree with you fully or I am fully wrong? And of course I am anti-freedom, anti-gun, anti-American blah blah as well? Just want to be clear on that.
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Old 12-09-2012, 18:55   #177
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What I find so ridiculous about your arguments is the American Patriot's resolve and conviction. The intelligence of most patriots might surprise you, and that when overcoming horrendous odd, need becomes the mother of invention.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

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you really dont sound like a patriot...they protect something even if they may dissagree with it or it hs some flaws....

you seem to want to destory what you dont like about it even if 99% of every else doesnt agree with you..

and you keep talking about the founding fathers..yes they would support fighting a oppressive goverment...im thinking if they heard what your trying to spread john adams himself would hang you for treason
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Old 12-09-2012, 18:58   #178
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Originally Posted by racerford View Post
Do you believe that their are not citizens that can constuct a Stinger or a RPG? That they cannot construct almost any weapon that can be crewed by 3 or less people?

Who do you think builds these things, soldiers on military bases?

There are guys all over this country building drone equivilent aircraft every single day. Maybe not the big 60 ft wing span drones but smaller ones. Should we put them all in jail?

Why do you care if a guy in Nevada on a 1000 acres has RPGs and shoots them at his cactus every day. Shouldn't it just be about safe storage and transport? Shouldn't it be about harmful actions on the part of individuals? Not what they could do, but what they actually do or try to do?

Otherwise you should put every guy with a lathe and some barstock and some sheet metal in jail.

Buy the way, a few years ago in the area a guy "accidently" destroyed a bridge here with a tanker truck. IIRC, he died so we will never know if it was an accident (truck too tall for the bridge) or an intentional act; meant to harm large numbers of people or commerce.
Oh Lord how much more can I break it down? It is about limiting risk not eliminating it. Just because you can not eliminate something does not mean you do not try and minimize the risk it present.

Can't eliminate speeders and the harm they sometimes cause but I am not for eliminating the speed limits.
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Old 12-09-2012, 18:59   #179
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Like I said, if you think unrestricted access to shoulder fired SAMs is reasonable clause protected under the 2nd A then a idiot hat is in order for you.

Maybe we can equip all those 737s with counter measures to at least give them a fighting chance....
I think you fear what you would do with one of these things in your hands just as the anti gun crowd fears what they would do with a weapon in theirs.
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:02   #180
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Oh Lord how much more can I break it down? It is about limiting risk not eliminating it. Just because you can not eliminate something does not mean you do not try and minimize the risk it present.

Can't eliminate speeders and the harm they sometimes cause but I am not for eliminating the speed limits.
Well there you go. Gun banners want to limit risk by limiting magazine capacity and shoulder things that go up. Are you sure that you are on the right forum?
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:03   #181
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you really dont sound like a patriot...they protect something even if they may dissagree with it or it hs some flaws....

you seem to want to destory what you dont like about it even if 99% of every else doesnt agree with you..

and you keep talking about the founding fathers..yes they would support fighting a oppressive goverment...im thinking if they heard what your trying to spread john adams himself would hang you for treason
These kind of guys imagine themselves as some kind of true American patriots, anybody who disagrees with them is the enemy of America. They have no concept that they live in a society that demands compromise, compromise which is facilitated by that society. They of course willing take advantage of living in that society everyday while cursing it to no end daily. You can not expect a reasonable response from them.

Same idiots who most likely were calling for succession after Obama was reelected. Who cares that it was a lawful legal election, the results they did not agree with so it was grounds for succession.
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:07   #182
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Well there you go. Gun banners want to limit risk by limiting magazine capacity and shoulder things that go up. Are you sure that you are on the right forum?


Check back a few post on this thread, I clearly said I do not favor any limits on magazine capacity.

I do favor bans on things like SAMs that can kill 100s and 100s of people from the hands of any old idiot on a whim.
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:11   #183
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I think you fear what you would do with one of these things in your hands just as the anti gun crowd fears what they would do with a weapon in theirs.
No I fear what nutjobs, terrorist (domestic or foreign), pissed off postal workers, drunk rednecks or bored 16 years kids etc might do with one.

Now if that makes me psychotic as you are implying then I am guilty.

Funny you don't trust you fellow American in the government but you do trust your fellow Americans with weapons that can kill 100s of people at a time.
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:12   #184
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Check back a few post on this thread, I clearly said I do not favor any limits on magazine capacity.

I do favor bans on things like SAMs that can kill 100s and 100s of people from the hands of any old idiot on a whim.

I really don't understand why not as you use the same logic as Dianne Feinstein.
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:17   #185
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I think everyone should be allowed to have sarin, VX and smallpox bacillus. HH
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:17   #186
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I really don't understand why not as you use the same logic as Dianne Feinstein.
Because like most adults I can rationalize and make judgements based on specifics regarding each individual matter. Children see things in absolutes, simple black and white with nothing in between. That is not the rational that went into the founding documents during their creation. Why should it be the mindset we have to use in regards to them now?

I can and do support federal bans on things like SAMs while not supporting them on magazine capacity, barrel length, detachable magazines etc...I don't see this in absolutes.
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:19   #187
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I think everyone should be allowed to have sarin, VX and smallpox bacillus. HH
Absolutely. I mean what is the difference between that and a nut job having a Ruger Mini14 when they go off


Last edited by Ruggles; 12-09-2012 at 19:20..
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:22   #188
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Because like most adults I can rationalize and make judgements based on specifics regarding each individual matter. Children see things in absolutes, simple black and white with nothing in between. That is not the rational that went into the founding documents during their creation. Why should it be the mindset we have to use in regards to them now?

I can and do support federal bans on things like SAMs while not supporting them on magazine capacity, barrel length, detachable magazines etc...I don't see this in absolutes.
No you don't see things in absolutes, you just see things that you fear and those that you do not.
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:33   #189
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No you don't see things in absolutes, you just see things that you fear and those that you do not.
I do see things I fear and things I do not. But I rationalize it. I fear crime, I carry a gun because of that but I do not live like a hermit in my house afraid to go out of it because of the risk of crime.

I might fear a oppressive government, I fear a nut job going off at my local airport much more. Therefor the SA7 I might use against that oppressive government I will sacrifice the right to own so I do not have to worry nearly as much about the nut job. If you disagree fine, no problem. If you get enough people to disagree then you can change the laws, otherwise you abide by them. Simple stuff

Now somebody break out the "he who would sacrifice liberty for safety" quote.
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:39   #190
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[/SIZE]

The NFA is an infringement.
I would agree with you.
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:43   #191
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I do see things I fear and things I do not. But I rationalize it. I fear crime, I carry a gun because of that but I do not live like a hermit in my house afraid to go out of it because of the risk of crime.

I might fear a oppressive government, I fear a nut job going off at my local airport much more. Therefor the SA7 I might use against that oppressive government I will sacrifice the right to own so I do not have to worry nearly as much about the nut job. If you disagree fine, no problem. If you get enough people to disagree then you can change the laws, otherwise you abide by them. Simple stuff

Now somebody break out the "he who would sacrifice liberty for safety" quote.
I guess history is not your strong suit.
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Old 12-09-2012, 19:45   #192
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I guess history is not your strong suit.
How so?

Nothing like firing off cheap shots with no substance
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Old 12-09-2012, 22:54   #193
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No I fear what nutjobs, terrorist (domestic or foreign), pissed off postal workers, drunk rednecks or bored 16 years kids etc might do with one.

Now if that makes me psychotic as you are implying then I am guilty.

Funny you don't trust you fellow American in the government but you do trust your fellow Americans with weapons that can kill 100s of people at a time.

Governments have proved themselves by killing far more people than any individual nutjob with any individual weapon.

I notice that you ignored my question of why you cared if a guy in Nevada with 1000 acres had RPGs and shot his Cacti with them everyday?

I have offered compromises on how people could have their Constitutional allowed arms, and still protect the public safety. Your compromises focus on being as restrictive as practical. Mine focus on responsible use and storage.

The differences between explosives, and atomic bombs and toxins (chemical and biological) is that explosives have a defined and controllable zone of destruction, just like firearms. Atomic bombs and toxins (air or water borne) do not. The toxins go where ever the wind and water take them. Same with atomic fallout. Atomic bombs take considerable maintenance as well.

No on as far as I has said that one should be able to buy any type of explosive anywhere no matter your age. Maybe some do, I don't

However you should know one gallon of gasoline has the explosive power of 6 sticks of Dynamite. Do you feel safer with your car parked in your garage?

Our Constitution is about freedoms from government restrictions because of what we might do. It is about allowing us freedoms until we DO something to hurt others, THEN punishing us.

If you are a man, you probably have a male sex organ. If so I think you should be put in jail or have it removed so you won't rape hundreds of women. It's for the women and the children, so you should volunteer for it. Probably should do the same with your hands. That way you couldn't hold a gun or a knife that you could kill 10's or hundred of people. Do it for the children.

You want protection from what people might do. I want protection from accidents. Deliberate acts cannot reliably be stopped over time. With enough persistent people and enough time they will succeed.

I personally think we should mandate better driver training. It would likely save more lives that would be lost by eliminating the NFA. I am willing to take that trade-off.

Last edited by racerford; 12-10-2012 at 12:58..
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:27   #194
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I carry select fire weapons on duty and I should be able to carry/own them off duty if I desire. The weapons that I can physically bear on duty then I should be able to bear them off duty. When you hit crew served weapons then that's a different story. I don't have the answers but I think the NFA is too stringent.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:38   #195
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All but WMDs.
This.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:58   #196
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Originally Posted by Ruble Noon View Post
No you don't see things in absolutes, you just see things that you fear and those that you do not.

Could it be he sees some things that he fears more than others and some things that he fears sometimes with some people but not with others? Or is it strictly just things that one fears and things that one does not fear?
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:20   #197
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Artillery? Shoulder fired missles? Grenades? Claymores?
Given that the intention of the 2nd amendment was to ensure the means to resist a tyrannical government, then yes. The citizens should be as well armed as their potential oppressors, the military.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:21   #198
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Notwithstanding the imminent demise of the Second Amendment because it is not allowed to go to Walmart and buy a MANPADS , there are far more people who can carry a concealed firearm than at any other time in our history. When the Constitution was signed there were about 3.9 million people in the US, and if everyone owned both a musket and a handgun (my guess unlikely) I would bet that there are more guns now in just Texas or just Florida alone than there were in the entire nation then. Just the number of permitees in Florida, Georgia, and Indiana amounts to about half of the entire population of the nation in 1787. My guess is that number of people who owned more than one rifle or more than one handgun in the US in 1787 was miniscule; nowadays it is certainly not unusual for a guy to own several guns. A big part of this is economics. Couple the substantial increase in discretionary income with the incredible improvements in communications since 1787, coupled with the fact that there are a dozen different handguns with a scope that would be more effective at 100 yards than would be a musket in 1787, along with the number of people who own guns in the US and oddly I do not feel that the Second Amendment is in any immediate jeopardy despite the fact that a guy can't go to Tractor Supply and buy a mine.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:28   #199
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My point is that what is realistically protected under the 2A is directly related to what was reasonble to own at the time of the adoption of the Bill of Rights. Minutemen were expected to own rifles, maybe a pistol. No one expected them to own a cannon or warship.
Never heard of "Privateers"? We had more of them than Navy warships.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:02   #200
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You and you fellow patriots on here are not shooting down Tomahawk missiles, B1 bombers, M1 Abrams or any of dozens of other military weapon systems. Grab a little dose of reality

If your worst nightmares come true and you are facing the wrath of the U.S. military you are a smoldering heap of ash already.
Yeah, that's why we've been fighting goat herders for the last 11 years and we'll be leaving with our tail between our legs.
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