[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor

But you are an anti gunner, and anti freedom, you just can't admit you're a statist. I'm far from being an anarchist, I believe there has to be structure and laws, but within the bounds of the Constitution and BOR. Many of the SCOTUS decisions have run contrary to the these documents, because there were/are people on the court like you.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

I get it 100% your way and views or I am anti freedom huh? No room for debate since you view is so infallible

The COTUS and the BOR were huge compromises and were endlessly debated when created, your view that they are beyond that now is childish.

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor

No, it's an identical argument, it's regulating a right that clearly says "shall not be infringed". There is no such matter concerning procreation, so, it can be regulated, under the commerce clause no less.

What a shame, I can only hope your children turn out to be better citzens than yourself.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Ahhh extremist, they are so much fun to try and reason with.

So because I don't want Billie Bob toting around a SA7 near the airport I want to control his reproductive rights. Yeah that is a reasonable leap of logic from you.

My kids will be fine, but thanks for the concern

[BossGodfrey]

Originally Posted by ray9898

How about bombs? Cannons? RPG's?

They are "arms".

I guess only corrupt government officials should have those huh ?

[Ruble Noon]

Originally Posted by Ruggles

Buy away, nothing stopping you except local laws and regulations from storing what fuel you will.

But that has nothing to do with the matter at hand. Surplus RPGs, grenades, SAMs or surplus 500lbs bombs are not in the same category as your fuel example. Weak example of comparison and you know it. Again this is not a yes or no question, it is a question where there is a reasonable answer between the two.

Yes they are different substances but could be misused to create much mayhem as you fear could happen with ownership of an RPG or a grenade. If you fear the misuse of an RPG why do you not fear the misuse of 500 gallons of gasoline?
Do you fear the misuse of an AR with a Beta mag? If so, should we ban them to allay your fear?

[Bruce M]

Out of curiosity can someone suggest some situation in which it might be appropriate and relatively safe to actually use a grenade or a RPG as opposed to just setting one off for fun? I can of course think of how millions of gallons of gasoline and diesel are used daily for good uses.

[LawScholar]

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

Yeah, we want a society ran by arrogant attorneys that want to figure out how to deprive as many people out their guaranteed freedom's to make a living reinventing society as they see fit from their gated communities.

Join the rest of us in society, the water is warm.

I grew up in a town of 100, so poor if we didn't have hunting success we often didn't eat. My parents were rail-thin from skipping meals because they didn't have enough money to feed themselves too. Don't assume you know a damn thing about me because of a username, your majesty.

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by Ruble Noon

Yes they are different substances but could be misused to create much mayhem as you fear could happen with ownership of an RPG or a grenade. If you fear the misuse of an RPG why do you not fear the misuse of 500 gallons of gasoline?
Do you fear the misuse of an AR with a Beta mag? If so, should we ban them to allay your fear?

Really? Comparing a idiot/nutjob with 500 gallons of gas and the same person with a RPG/grenade? Show me a guy carrying around 500 gallons of fuel, just one example of a man carrying that around. Have a little real world perspective in your post at least.

Who said anything about magazine capacity limits? I did not. I do not support them. Leaping to conclusion does not make your point stronger, it in fact weakens it.

And I am not setting any laws or regulations, that is society as a whole doing so thru the elective process. So my fears are not in question here, I think you mean to question society's fears.

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by Bruce M

Out of curiosity can someone suggest some situation in which it might be appropriate and relatively safe to actually use a grenade or a RPG as opposed to just setting one off for fun? I can of course think of how millions of gallons of gasoline and diesel are used daily for good uses.

Why when the evil American military is storming their house of course. They after all are the last few true patriots standing between the last bit of freedom America has and the corrupt tyrannical planners in D.C.

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by BossGodfrey

I guess only corrupt government officials should have those huh ?

Hmm I was under the impression that our all volunteer military had those, does Big O have one in his room? Is Obama sticking a RPG under his bed these days?

I would hope you are not implying that our military is corrupt and just waiting for the order to turn on the citizens. If you are you have no understanding of who exactly is in uniform.

[Ruble Noon]

Originally Posted by Ruggles

Really? Comparing a idiot/nutjob with 500 gallons of gas and the same person with a RPG/grenade? Show me a guy carrying around 500 gallons of fuel, just one example of a man carrying that around. Have a little real world perspective in your post at least.

Who said anything about magazine capacity limits? I did not. I do not support them. Leaping to conclusion does not make your point stronger, it in fact weakens it.

And I am not setting any laws or regulations, that is society as a whole doing so thru the elective process. So my fears are not in question here, I think you mean to question society's fears.

[holesinpaper]

Originally Posted by Ruble Noon

Future IED to be parked at an intersection near you soon. Or kaboomed on a freeway during rush hour.

That's my prediction anyways.

[Ruble Noon]

Originally Posted by holesinpaper

Future IED to be parked at an intersection near you soon. Or kaboomed on a freeway during rush hour.

That's my prediction anyways.

That doesn't scare Ruggles though but an RPG in the hands of a law abiding citizen scares the pants off of him.

[BEER]

Originally Posted by Ruble Noon

damnit, you beat me too it. lol

oh well i took the 4 seconds to hunt it and load it into pb so i'm gonna post it anyway. lol

[racerford]

Originally Posted by Ruggles

I did? Where?

I said that to use the line of debate that we need the same weapons as the military is out of date in the real world of today. How exactly are you going to counter a Tomahawk missile, much less multiple ones for example? You are not. Our friends in the 1770s had no such issues.

Regardless gun control debates on the internet never end so I am calling it a day on this one.

That is exactly why we need Stingers. Relatively low cost and useful against flying craft. Will they be really successful against Tomahawks? No, but way better than a stick. Certainly useful against helicopters and wheeled vehicles.

Tomahawk, may be able to be countered with technology, focused EMP, GPS spoofing, infiltration. The point is that a government that is not afraid of its' people is not afraid to oppress them. I want them afraid every day that if they overstep the Constitution; they overstep their authority that one morning they will not wake up in power, by vote or by revolution. Everyone (?) would prefer it to be by vote, but revolution should always be in the back of their mind if they overstepping their oath of office.

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by Ruble Noon

Yeah that is the same as a guy walking into a shopping mall with a RPG and letting loose in the food court. Or tossing a few grenades into a crowed movie theater.

Stop trying to relate things that are not even remotely related. The "let the guy have a RPG because he will just use a fuel tanker to commit his scumbag assault if you don't" is not holding water.

Not big on name calling but honestly if you are OK with surplus shoulder fired SAMs being for sale across the country you are a blooming idiot with no grasp on reality. You do not have the right to endanger my (or any other) family flying on vacation because of your irrational fear or belief that you are resisting some imaginary government assault on you. Why, cause our society says so.

Ain't living in a society a bummer, you can't always get you way. But I tell you what, you get the laws changed and I will buy you your first SAM so you are protected from those black helicopters

[kenpoprofessor]

It's useless debating with these anti freedom folks, they're like democrats, circular logic, happy to have infringements against those who they deem a threat to society, and only their view of infringements is OK.

They don't understand just how far the gov. will go once allowed to by the populace vote, shame ain't it? A true democracy is what they want, and sadly, the way things are going, they'll have it pretty quick. We can kiss our republic and Constitution goodbye.

I swore an oath, to protect and defend, I intend to keep it.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by racerford

That is exactly why we need Stingers. Relatively low cost and useful against flying craft. Will they be really successful against Tomahawks? No, but way better than a stick. Certainly useful against helicopters and wheeled vehicles.

Tomahawk, may be able to be countered with technology, focused EMP, GPS spoofing, infiltration. The point is that a government that is not afraid of its' people is not afraid to oppress them. I want them afraid every day that if they overstep the Constitution; they overstep their authority that one morning they will not wake up in power, by vote or by revolution. Everyone (?) would prefer it to be by vote, but revolution should always be in the back of their mind if they overstepping their oath of office.

You and you fellow patriots on here are not shooting down Tomahawk missiles, B1 bombers, M1 Abrams or any of dozens of other military weapon systems. Grab a little dose of reality

If your worst nightmares come true and you are facing the wrath of the U.S. military you are a smoldering heap of ash already.

"Hey Ted run to my garage and grab a couple of those Stingers, we have some F16s inbound to the cul de sac we need to take down."

[kenpoprofessor]

Originally Posted by Ruggles

You and you fellow patriots on here are not shooting down Tomahawk missiles, B1 bombers, M1 Abrams or any of dozens of other military weapon systems. Grab a little dose of reality

If your worst nightmares come true and you are facing the wrath of the U.S. military you are a smoldering heap of ash already.

"Hey Ted run to my garage and grab a couple of those Stingers, we have some F16s inbound to the cul de sac we need to take down."

What I find so ridiculous about your arguments is the American Patriot's resolve and conviction. The intelligence of most patriots might surprise you, and that when overcoming horrendous odds, need becomes the mother of invention.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor

It's useless debating with these anti freedom folks, they're like democrats, circular logic, happy to have infringements against those who they deem a threat to society, and only their view of infringements is OK.

They don't understand just how far the gov. will go once allowed to by the populace vote, shame ain't it? A true democracy is what they want, and sadly, the way things are going, they'll have it pretty quick. We can kiss our republic and Constitution goodbye.

I swore an oath, to protect and defend, I intend to keep it.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Exactly how I feel about you. You are so irrationally scared of losing freedom you are afraid to let it work as the founders intended to protect itself.

You were not the only oath taker BTW.

Go ahead and give my one example of something that has been perpetrated by the U.S. Govt that has to wiling and ready to take arms against it. Just one, or even one on the horizon. Just something of substance beyond your speculations.

[Ruble Noon]

Originally Posted by Ruggles

Yeah that is the same as a guy walking into a shopping mall with a RPG and letting loose in the food court. Or tossing a few grenades into a crowed movie theater.

Stop trying to relate things that are not even remotely related. The "let the guy have a RPG because he will just use a fuel tanker to commit his scumbag assault if you don't" is not holding water.

Not big on name calling but honestly if you are OK with surplus shoulder fired SAMs being for sale across the country you are a blooming idiot with no grasp on reality. You do not have the right to endanger my (or any other) family flying on vacation because of your irrational fear or belief that you are resisting some imaginary government assault on you. Why, cause our society says so.

Ain't living in a society a bummer, you can't always get you way. But I tell you what, you get the laws changed and I will buy you your first SAM so you are protected from those black helicopters

When your logic fails and you are losing a debate, resort to name calling.

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by holesinpaper

Future IED to be parked at an intersection near you soon. Or kaboomed on a freeway during rush hour.

That's my prediction anyways.

Could be, no doubt. But that has what to do with a guy buying a half dozen grenades at Uncle Keiths Surplus Store and then dropping them in the local cineplex?

Because we can not realistically protect against all threats we protect against none?

[kenpoprofessor]

Originally Posted by Ruggles

Exactly how I feel about you. You are so irrationally scared of losing freedom you are afraid to let it work as the founders intended to protect itself.

You were not the only oath taker BTW.

Go ahead and give my one example of something that has been perpetrated by the U.S. Govt that has to wiling and ready to take arms against it. Just one, or even one on the horizon. Just something of substance beyond your speculations.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...nsadatacenter/

BTW, you didn't swear an oath, you just said the words.

[Ruggles]

Originally Posted by Ruble Noon

When your logic fails and you are losing a debate, resort to name calling.

Like I said, if you think unrestricted access to shoulder fired SAMs is reasonable clause protected under the 2nd A then a idiot hat is in order for you.

Maybe we can equip all those 737s with counter measures to at least give them a fighting chance....

[racerford]

Originally Posted by Ruggles

Yeah that is the same as a guy walking into a shopping mall with a RPG and letting loose in the food court. Or tossing a few grenades into a crowed movie theater.

Stop trying to relate things that are not even remotely related. The "let the guy have a RPG because he will just use a fuel tanker to commit his scumbag assault if you don't" is not holding water.

Not big on name calling but honestly if you are OK with surplus shoulder fired SAMs being for sale across the country you are a blooming idiot with no grasp on reality. You do not have the right to endanger my (or any other) family flying on vacation because of your irrational fear or belief that you are resisting some imaginary government assault on you. Why, cause our society says so.

Ain't living in a society a bummer, you can't always get you way. But I tell you what, you get the laws changed and I will buy you your first SAM so you are protected from those black helicopters

Do you believe that their are not citizens that can constuct a Stinger or a RPG? That they cannot construct almost any weapon that can be crewed by 3 or less people?

Who do you think builds these things, soldiers on military bases?

There are guys all over this country building drone equivilent aircraft every single day. Maybe not the big 60 ft wing span drones but smaller ones. Should we put them all in jail?

Why do you care if a guy in Nevada on a 1000 acres has RPGs and shoots them at his cactus every day. Shouldn't it just be about safe storage and transport? Shouldn't it be about harmful actions on the part of individuals? Not what they could do, but what they actually do or try to do?

Otherwise you should put every guy with a lathe and some barstock and some sheet metal in jail.

Buy the way, a few years ago in the area a guy "accidently" destroyed a bridge here with a tanker truck. IIRC, he died so we will never know if it was an accident (truck too tall for the bridge) or an intentional act; meant to harm large numbers of people or commerce.

[holesinpaper]

Originally Posted by kenpoprofessor

BTW, you didn't swear an oath, you just said the words.

Epic truth applicable to many.