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Old 12-08-2012, 16:57   #41
RWBlue
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Guys it is part of the computer program to make sure their dumb staff do not violate the law.

This keeps non-gun people from selling something they should have to someone they shouldn't have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockdude1 View Post
Wal-Mart: Rifle or pistol?

Me: No, it's for a machine gun........

Yes, that is the proper answer. And when they look at you strangely tell them to mark it down as a rifle.
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Old 12-08-2012, 17:25   #42
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One LGS (of the few remaining!) around here, has an 'ammo log' that you have to give your ID info, for ANY ammo bought.

I know of a former LEO that moved here from another state, bought some ammo from this place, and complied w/ the ammo log.

A few days later. . . . (nights actually!), a little after 12:30 a.m., his home was SURROUNDED by MSP's SWAT team!!
(MSP is Maryland State Police.)

Two SWAT officers knocked on the door, and being a former LEO, his wife opened the door for them.


Long story short. . . . . this former LEO found out that MSP saw that this guy bought ammo for a handgun that he didn't have registered, here in Maryland, and wanted to know why!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

The officer that lead the SWAT team said that he was only doing his job.
He never apologized (that I'm aware of), but, he became educated by the former LEO, that you CAN move into this state, and bring firearms, and NOT register them!!!!!!


The ultimate bottom line (as far as I'm concerned), ammunition 'logs' are another form of Big Brother knowing what we are doing.



Last item of note: Everyone that I know of, boycotts that LGS for ammo and some of us boycott this LGS for everything!!!!


See next post -
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Last edited by byf43; 12-08-2012 at 17:58.. Reason: fixing a 'tpyo'.
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Old 12-08-2012, 17:58   #43
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Tell them neither. It's just to look at and you will never use it.
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Old 12-08-2012, 17:59   #44
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Copied from a forwarded e-mail (that I was cc'd on):

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Hello Henry.

I just wanted your organization to know what Our State Police are up too. The incident below happened to me, a legal gun owner in La Plata, Maryland two nights ago (August 4, 2008 at 12:30 PM). Next time, they won't get in without a warrant. You live and you learn. Below, is the e-mail I sent to Mr. Chris Contee NRA, Chief Counsel at his request. I know I'm not an isolated incident so I hope your members keep their doors locked.

Dear Chris,

It was great to speak with you today by phone. Sorry but also glad you are so busy with our legislative matters. What would we do without you and the NRA?

As I told you by phone, my Wife and I were unfairly besieged late last night by the Maryland State Police. I have also relayed this occurrence to "Citizens Group for the right to keep and bear arms". I believe they are in Seattle Washington. Enclosed is my summation for your review. Good luck on your trip and safe travel.

Last night at 12:30 pm a MD State Police "Armed Response Team" showed up at our door. I was dead asleep, my Wife was laying some ceramic tile on our basement floor when our driveway alert went off several times. She looked at the camera monitor and screamed that Police in Assault gear were running up to our front door. That made me sit straight up from a dead sleep.

We thought they were there for my Brother in Law who had just been mailed Bench Warrants to our home, but he doesn't live here and he is already incarcerated, so my Wife opened the door for them. Then I heard one of them say he had some papers for me or needed to speak with me,so I got up to speak with them 6 or 7 officers in full assault vests, etc. and NO ONE in uniform. Four heavily armed police came into the house while at least two others walked around outside of our home.

One, began to talk to me asking me about the types of weapons I own. Remember now, I was just startled from a dead sleep and I kept asking why are you here, why do you want to know about my guns? Every gun I bought in Maryland I bought from a MD Dealer. Well this Trooper said that I had purchased a "large amount" of ammunition recently and wanted to know why. When I questioned why he was asking, then he changed his tune to what type of Handguns I had. I told him I just purchased my first handgun in Maryland last week, but had not even picked it up from the Store . He questioned me about other handguns I might own and I realized that he was "fishing" to match his list of my ammunition purchases with handguns that I owned. Then I told him about my C&R license that I had purchased 2 with that but was not required to register them with ST. Police. Moreover, I told him it was the MD. ST. Police who approved me as a "designated collector" so why are they here in storm trooper fashion at 12:30 pm maybe to kill me because I legally bought some handgun ammo? He told me that most of the ammo I purchased was for weapons that they had no record of me having registered so the "SYSTEM" Flagged me. Flagged me for what? Death, Harassment at midnight by 7 Storm Troopers?

I asked, "... does your system know that it is stupid to buy ammo with your own ID if your are going to do something illegal, Does your system know that I have a C&R and can buy weapons of various calibers without your knowledge, Does your system know that you yourselves registered me as a designated collector, who "collects" so it is not unusual for me to buy any type or manner of ammunition and finally, Does your system know that it is NOT illegal to purchase handgun ammunition in the State of Maryland whether or not you own that caliber handgun?"

The Trooper (plain clothes), had a list of ammo calibers that he referred to and I agreed, there's no secret that I bought the ammo, but so what? And I'm still not sure of the States definition of a "large amount". Look, I'm not outfitting a Militia, hate group, or giving it to someone who can't buy it, or even buy ammo for a stolen weapon I don't want to register. Any weapon I have every owned has either been purchased at a Gun Store or I personally knew the individual I bought it from and its origin. And, last time I looked it is not illegal to buy handgun ammo, even if you don't own the caliber weapon OR you don't own a weapon at all !! So unless the law is changed, Police cannot harass people who do so.

That being said, the young Trooper told me I "should" voluntarily register all my weapons or this would happen again... because the "system" flagged me. And another thing, he kept asking where I kept my weapons, in a safe? I never answered him and he asked me three separate times as to the locations of any weapons I might have. I got the distinct impression he wanted me to voluntarily let him see/inspect the handguns for the calibers I bought ammo for, but I was ready for that. No warrant, no see. I mean, I would hope you could trust the Police, but why should I let six or seven or so strangers know where I keep guns? If indeed I had the calibers he was inquiring about?

The point here though, is that Police came to my home without a warrant, dressed to kill, trying to intimidate me about something that is NOT illegal !! This was not an Interview it was an interrogation under duress.

Funny the last thing he said to me before leaving was "... Mr. Curtis, sorry to have HARASSED you, you have a good night." Now that struck me as an odd thing for a Police Officer to say, especially if he was justified in doing his job. The last thing I'll say was that Trooper was courteous and having worn the badge, he and the team were sent by someone else, they're just following orders. However, whoever sent them to my home at 12:30 at night left a very bad taste in my mouth and NO ONE IDENTIFIED THEMSELVES TO ME NOR DO I KNOW THEIR NAMES. But rest assured they WERE the Maryland State Police. Word has it that there is a Special "Firearms" squad within the State Police and they have been asking gun dealers to keep a log of people who purchase handgun and other regulated weapon ammunition by making them show ID and signing their name when purchasing ammunition (not required under Maryland Law). Their MVA / DMV information is put in the log by the FFL Dealer right beside the ammunition you buy. Then once a week they (Police) come back to the stores pick up the logs of ammunition purchases and as in my case, they are comparing handgun ammunition purchases against known handgun registration files. This practice was first started by the Howard County or Baltimore City Police (I believe), and the MD State Police adopted this tactic as well. Perhaps it works, some criminals are stupid enough to purchase ammunition with their own ID. I am not a criminal nor am I stupid, but I was duped into signing those ammunition logs, without the FFL Dealer advising me that it is NOT mandatory or disclosing the log's true purpose.In fact I was told that if 'you' refuse to sign this ammunition log, the Dealer will refuse the sale. I will NEVER buy ammunition from that Dealer again.

We've contemplated moving back to VA or even go down to Florida for a while. But that was yesterday. Now there is nothing that will hold us back from moving back to a "Free State". Or at least a State where subversive tactics are not practiced by the Police.

FYI: I have been in contact with Attorney Chris Contee, NRA Legal Council and He/NRA is very interested in this case. Hopefully this Tactic can be publicized, excised and stopped.

Sincerely

Don
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Last edited by byf43; 12-08-2012 at 22:04..
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Old 12-08-2012, 18:02   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
Guys it is part of the computer program to make sure their dumb staff do not violate the law.

This keeps non-gun people from selling something they should have to someone they shouldn't have.


Yes, that is the proper answer. And when they look at you strangely tell them to mark it down as a rifle.
True story: I used my "machine gun" line at a Wal-mart in Vidor, Tx.

The lady behind the register looks at me and says, "No ammo sold at Wal-Mart will work in machine guns. They use a special ammo that Wal-Mart is not allowed to sell."

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Old 12-08-2012, 22:13   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockdude1 View Post
True story: I used my "machine gun" line at a Wal-mart in Vidor, Tx.

The lady behind the register looks at me and says, "No ammo sold at Wal-Mart will work in machine guns. They use a special ammo that Wal-Mart is not allowed to sell."

There are days when I meet someone who is so dumb I wonder how they find their way to work. This sounds like one of those times.


I guess the other option when someone asked an either or question is to answer, Yes.
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Old 12-08-2012, 23:56   #47
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Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
There are days when I meet someone who is so dumb I wonder how they find their way to work. This sounds like one of those times.
Another possibility: that lady behind the counter was as proficient with a one-liner as the customer.
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Old 12-09-2012, 00:13   #48
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Originally Posted by samurairabbi View Post
Sometimes I say "Which answer keeps me out of jail?"
I'm stealing that.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:21   #49
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Originally Posted by TK-421 View Post
I'm stealing that.
Stealing is against the law!!!!!!

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Old 12-09-2012, 06:59   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samurairabbi View Post
Another possibility: that lady behind the counter was as proficient with a one-liner as the customer.
That would be my guess. Do you have any idea how many times they must hear the old "machine gun" line? And everybody thinks they're so clever, and the very first person to ever use it.

News flash. You're not. Neither the first nor very clever. I know because I've been behind a half dozen people who used it. And I'm not there all day, every day.

Just answer the question, buy your ammo and get out of the way. Others are waiting. The clerk is just doing his/her job.

Quote:
I got proofed buying a tin of dip today and I was born before the Apollo program.
I would have carded you too, and I was born when Harry Truman was president. But when I worked at a convience store, I quickly figured out it was easier and safer to just card everyone who bought tobacco and beer. Saved a lot of "Hey, you didn't card him/her" arguments, plus I could go to jail if I sold those items to someone underage. Ammo is probably the same way. Not just get fired. Not just the store get fined (which they would too), but I personally COULD GO TO JAIL. And yes, the state runs sting operations. Yea, you were going to show me your ID, or the smokes/chew/beer stayed in the store. Didn't matter to me.

I got the "They're for my mother" line a lot, too.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:18   #51
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Walmart asks "handgun or rifle" for rimfire and "traditional" handgun calibers. Said BATFE requires it since can be 18 to own long gun, but 21 for handgun. Since Contenders can be had in rifle calibers, question is meaningless.

Your government at work.


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Old 12-09-2012, 07:50   #52
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I would have carded you too, and I was born when Harry Truman was president. But when I worked at a convience store, I quickly figured out it was easier and safer to just card everyone who bought tobacco and beer. Saved a lot of "Hey, you didn't card him/her" arguments, plus I could go to jail if I sold those items to someone underage. Ammo is probably the same way. Not just get fired. Not just the store get fined (which they would too), but I personally COULD GO TO JAIL. And yes, the state runs sting operations. Yea, you were going to show me your ID, or the smokes/chew/beer stayed in the store. Didn't matter to me.

I got the "They're for my mother" line a lot, too.
I didn't give the guy a hard time. But, anybody who would card me to establish that I'm over 18 is an idiot. Most places like Walmart have a sign that says "we card for people under 30" regarding alcohol or tobacco. Walmart has a forced response for the cashiers so they have to card buyers. Any cashier with common sense would look at me for a second and then hit a button on the register and continue ringing my order up because it is obvious I was over 30 when I still bought alcohol.

It's conceivable that someone who looks 29yo could actually be 17.9yo. There is simply no way a 17yo could have the salt and pepper hair and wrinkles I have. Not only did the guy card me, he had me remove my DL and hand it to him while he actually studied it and compared my photo and face several times.

There is something called "reasonable". It was not reasonable to card me for 18 years. I figure this store might have gotten popped for selling to underage by accident and now they were over reacting. Whatever the reason, the clerk was polite and I wasn't going to give a guy making prolly $7.00 and hour for doing his job. It's not like he was giving me a hard time just for the his own entertainment. But to say "I would have carded you too" is silly. I get a pension for crying out loud. It is in no way reasonable to think I'm in high school.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:56   #53
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Stealing is against the law!!!!!!

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The validity of your objection is acknowledged.

He is APPROPRIATING my line! I, of course, shall retaliate by suing him, and we shall spend the next eight years or so paying lawyers to cast aspersions on each other's IQ, parentage, eyesight, ancestry, and sense of direction!

On second thought, just let him steal it.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:29   #54
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Never been asked but have not been carded for alcohol for over 3 decades.
I stopped in at a local store to buy a 6 pack of beer. She asked me what my date of birth was. I asked why she needed that and she told me it was a new rule for alcohol purchase. I told her 1990. She entered it into the system. I'm 60.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:40   #55
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Originally Posted by railfancwb View Post
Walmart asks "handgun or rifle" for rimfire and "traditional" handgun calibers. Said BATFE requires it since can be 18 to own long gun, but 21 for handgun. Since Contenders can be had in rifle calibers, question is meaningless.

Your government at work.


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Twenty one to buy handgun, not own. I can own one here in nm at nineteen, and I did. Just had my parents buy it for me as a gift. Ammo was a pain to buy though. Just said it was for a carbine and no more problems

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