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Old 12-06-2012, 02:19   #251
clarkz71
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Originally Posted by .38 super View Post
You are both - right and not. You're right, because in your work you use this on threads. It does work like lubricant and also prevents seizures. I had a body shop in Europe and went trough bunch of the same product - this is a great company...

In guns however, such "lubricant" is used primarily when they are stored for unknown period of time.
It is heavier and harder "lubricant" for gun use, there is nothing wrong to stay in your Glock but most people will simply go with the general rule to disassemble their new gun, to clean and inspect it and to lube it with lubricant of choice.
With or without it, gun with hard treatment as Tenifer or melonite will operate most likely without any lubricant or with whatever they decide to put in it, I've seen Glock lubed with heavy silicon based Astroglide... It feel just as you lubed it with Enos's red grease, only after shooting is terribly dirty...
We're on the same page, I don't use it as a lube.

I was just correcting "LampShadeActual" saying it was NOT a lube.
I, like Glock would only use it for long term storage
which will not happen on my 23 because it's my EDC/CCW
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Last edited by clarkz71; 12-06-2012 at 02:20..
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:29   #252
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I do not see how it can be the holster. There is nothing inside a Serpa that could depress the trigger. The locking mechanism is well forward of the trigger and only makes contact with the front of the trigger guard.

It has to be the defects found by the armorer.

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Old 12-06-2012, 07:04   #253
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A Glock armorer found defective parts in the gun.

We're past the holster theory.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:08   #254
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Originally Posted by Lowjiber View Post
I read this thread an hour ago, but haven't been able to get it out of my mind since.

I'm hardly a gunsmith, but cannot logically figure out how a striker-fired Glock can fire without having the trigger go through its normal cycle.

That being said, I have a Serpa holster that I only wear when working in the yard. I've been looking at it for the past hour and can't see any way that the trigger can get pulled. The OP's discharge has scared the heck outta me, and my Serpa is staying in the drawer until we hear an answer that explains the issue.
I did the same thing. Handled 19, then the Blackhawk Serpa, then them both together, and couldnt figure it out. I see that the retention mechanism basically "grabs hold" of the trigger guard to keep the weapon in place, but I cant for the life of me figure out how it would've caused an AD/ND unless you draw the weapon and your finger slipped inside the trigger guard, OR there was something lodged in there. But, like you, I'm going to keep the serpa in the drawer until further review. Back to my ol faithful leather belt or Kingtuk IWB.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:31   #255
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Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post
I would suspect a holster problem. I just see no way the gun could discharge on its own short of pulling the trigger, which the holster could have done somehow. The Blackhawk serpa holsters don't have a good track record. They've even been banned in some circles for various reasons, all safety related. I don't like them. And they are a poor conceal-carry holster. Much better options out there. I know some will disagree, but the number of negligent discharges caused directly or indirectly as a result of these holsters is undeniable.
All of the serpa issues I have seen were a user issue and not the holster. The part that engages the retention is below (well below) the trigger guard and only catches the front of the trigger guard not anywhere near the trigger.

I am not sure what caused this even through I would agree to look at everything but both items have fail safes to prevent this from happening. Unload the weapon and do everything you can holstering/unholstering to get a dry fire. You might also put it in the holster and slam it on the table a few times and check to see if the hammer drops.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:04   #256
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I'm interested to hear what Glock says.

The whole copper lube being taken off at the gun store just sounds weird to me. A gun store employee should have no reason to clean a factory NIB gun. Like others have mentioned, I'd guess the gun was "like new" on a trade, and the gun store took it apart to clean it.

Did the employee at the gun store bend the parts putting the gun back together? Did the original owner bend the parts or modify the trigger? Who knows. The fact that you say the trigger feels light, especially on a supposed brand new gun that isn't even supposed to be broken in yet, raises a huge alarm in my head. I would be shocked if it left the Glock factory in this condition.

Last edited by Fear Night; 12-06-2012 at 08:06..
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:49   #257
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Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
We're on the same page, I don't use it as a lube.

I was just correcting "LampShadeActual" saying it was NOT a lube.
I, like Glock would only use it for long term storage
which will not happen on my 23 because it's my EDC/CC
In some terms "lampShadeActual" is right... I cannot speak for anybody, but in gun terms, it is not a lubricant even it has some lubricating properties... See, when we use it in threads, the movement of the parts is slow and under significant pressure, with extremely tight tolerances. The coper itself works as a lubricant, the actual lubricant in this stuff plays only a role of medium for the coper content, if I can express it that way... In guns we have impact like movements, fairly lose tolerances and the coper content basically does not lubricate anything, because there is no tight enough surfaces that will squish it and take advantage of it's lubricating properties... I don't want to go there, but for lubrication it will work better if you "lube" your bore with it and than shoot some rounds, the coper will cover the bore the same way some dry lube will do it... Can you use it for this purpose ? Yes. Should you? No, there are much better products if you are looking for covering your bore with something that will decrease friction... It was just an example, where the anti-seize compound will probably be used...
I'm sure LampShadeActual meant "for use in guns" when he said " it's not a lubricant "...
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:08   #258
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Page 37 of you Glock manual under "Cleaning and Field stripping the pistol"


Quote:
Note that the copper colored lubricant found on portions of the slide of brand new GLOCK pistols should not be removed as it will help to provide long term lubrication of the slide."
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:14   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
To be completely honest, now that I think about it the trigger pull on the pistol did seem a good amount lighter than my gen 3 and gen 2 glocks, but seeing as how I have never bought a new glock until this one, let alone a gen 4 I chalked it up to me being unfamiliar with it. It was not to the point that it seemed something was actually wrong though. Just reminded me of a light almost 4.5lb trigger pull or so.
I recently purchased a Gen4 G26 and I'm measuring its trigger pull at 4.5lbs. I thought that was odd, as I've seen people say the Gen4 trigger was heavier than Gen3s. I've watched videos of Gen3s measured between 5.5 and 6.5. And, Glock's current spec is 5.5lbs. I thought maybe I just got lucky with mine.
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:23   #260
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...dont carry with one in the pipe ...too dangerous!
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:28   #261
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Originally Posted by rajbcpa View Post
...dont carry with one in the pipe ...too dangerous!
rajbcpa made a funny.
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:29   #262
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...dont carry with one in the pipe ...too dangerous!
I think it's way to dangerous NOT to carry one in the pipe.
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:35   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakestree View Post
I recently purchased a Gen4 G26 and I'm measuring its trigger pull at 4.5lbs. I thought that was odd, as I've seen people say the Gen4 trigger was heavier than Gen3s. I've watched videos of Gen3s measured between 5.5 and 6.5. And, Glock's current spec is 5.5lbs. I thought maybe I just got lucky with mine.
Did you buy it used or new? There is no way a stock, new, Glock should be 4.5 lbs, AFAIK. Unless Glock's parts tolerances are getting worse and worse. It wouldn't surprise me at this point.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 12-06-2012 at 13:36..
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:39   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .38 super View Post
I'm sure LampShadeActual meant "for use in guns" when he said " it's not a lubricant "...
Right, that's why I said I don't use it as a "gun" lube.
When the Glock copper XXXX wears off that's it.

But in itself it is a lube, on Mercedes & other cars that
use small brake shoes on the inside of the rear brake
rotors for the E brake we use the copper lube on the backing
plate friction points as it stays put and won't wash out.
In this application pressure in minimal so it is a lube &
not an anti sieze. It's also good on front caliper sliding bolts.

But enough off topic, suffice to say the Glock copper
substance must have enough lubricative properties
as most shooters take their guns out of the box &
shoot then with only that on the friction points.
Otherwise they wouldn't use it for the last 20 years.
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Last edited by clarkz71; 12-06-2012 at 13:41..
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:46   #265
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Originally Posted by tonyparson View Post
Page 37 of you Glock manual under "Cleaning and Field stripping the pistol"

Note that the copper colored lubricant found on portions of the slide of brand new GLOCK pistols should not be removed as it will help to provide long term lubrication of the slide."
They said "lubricant"..............uh oh. .

And long term lubrication, That's twice in one paragraph
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Last edited by clarkz71; 12-06-2012 at 14:06..
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:50   #266
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Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
Did you buy it used or new? There is no way a stock, new, Glock should be 4.5 lbs, AFAIK. Unless Glock's parts tolerances are getting worse and worse. It wouldn't surprise me at this point.
Sorry, yeah, it was new. Full disclosure, due to the shape of the trigger, and having to depress the trigger safety, I have been measuring from the tip of the trigger. That may be giving me a false reading. Maybe I'd better tape the safety down and try again...
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:56   #267
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Originally Posted by blakestree View Post
Sorry, yeah, it was new. Full disclosure, due to the shape of the trigger, and having to depress the trigger safety, I have been measuring from the tip of the trigger. That may be giving me a false reading. Maybe I'd better tape the safety down and try again...
You betcha. That's Glock's old way of measuring when they called their minus (-) connector '3.5lb'. Now, that same connector (when the trigger pull is measured in the right spot) achieves 4.5lb actual. Using tha same formula, your 26 likely measures 5.5lb - which it should with the dot (.) connector.
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:57   #268
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Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
I had a conversation today with one of my buddies that had worked at the store I purchased from, He said that a lot of the times, if they get a pistol on trade that is basically brand new looking and has everything as new, they will sell it as new. Not used.

They also said that depending on who checks the pistols in and logs them, that they will take them apart and clean all the copper lube etc out of them ahead of time. He made it sound like it was a personal choice of that particular employee that did this.

As far as tinkering with them, he said he had never seen anyone do that, but it wouldn't be a surprise to him if that were the case.....

So I at this point am wondering if they sold me a "NEW" gun that wasnt quite new, or somehow got put with the NEW pistols instead of the used pistols. This G23 definitely looked Brand New In Box to me. It was definitely sold to me as a Brand New Glock 23.
New is New, Used is Used. Good as New is USED. What a horrible thing to do.
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Old 12-06-2012, 13:58   #269
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Originally Posted by rajbcpa View Post
...dont carry with one in the pipe ...too dangerous!
don't carry a gun.... too dangerous.










i kid, i kid. don't flame me.
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Old 12-06-2012, 14:08   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajbcpa View Post
...dont carry with one in the pipe ...too dangerous!
What are we talking here, PVC, copper, PEX?
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Old 12-06-2012, 14:15   #271
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Originally Posted by SARDG View Post
You betcha. That's Glock's old way of measuring when they called their minus (-) connector '3.5lb'. Now, that same connector (when the trigger pull is measured in the right spot) achieves 4.5lb actual. Using tha same formula, your 26 likely measures 5.5lb - which it should with the dot (.) connector.
That's funny, I was telling you about that
when I checked my 23's pull.
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Last edited by clarkz71; 12-06-2012 at 17:18..
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Old 12-06-2012, 14:43   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cglaspel
I had a conversation today with one of my buddies that had worked at the store I purchased from, He said that a lot of the times, if they get a pistol on trade that is basically brand new looking and has everything as new, they will sell it as new. Not used.
Why would a gun shop even consider selling a used gun as new!? The serial number of the gun is written on the original handgun permit at point of sale. That handgun serial number is traceable back to the original permit. If there is ever a safety issue with that handgun and the serial number is traced back to reveal that a used gun was sold as new, the gun shop who sold it as new would be liable for any damages/deaths caused by that handgun. The liability assumed far outweighs the few extra dollars earned by selling a used gun as new. I guess "Stupid is as stupid does".
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Old 12-06-2012, 14:49   #273
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That's funy, I was telling you about that when I checked my 23's pull.
Yep, I thought of you when I read that post.
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Old 12-06-2012, 15:27   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post
Obviously not there, obviously no first hand knowledge.

If you tell me a Glock left Gaston's place with so little engagement of the trigger bar and firing pin tang, it tingles my BS meter.

If the drop safety shelf doesn't keep the trigger bar from dropping off the tang, you double my BS meter tingle.

Now you add in that since #1 and #2 failed and the striker was released. AND the gun fired because #3 the firing pin safety spring was bent and not functioning the firing pin safety designed to prevent precise that exact such accidental firing.

On calm reflection, not giving a rats shinny axx either way, you have just asked me to believe too many items in a chain. To believe that story runs counter to the usual wisdom that the simplest answer is almost always the true one. All three mechanical systems were misfitted or failed or damaged in assembly at the factory???

I think not. I don't know what did happen, but I think that the chain of #1, #2, #3 did not happen.
Most any safety engineer or safety manager at a large company will tell you that it is almost always a series of failures that leads to an incident.

The heavy metal object was tilted on it's side and not secured. The guy walking by bumped into it. Heavy metal object falls onto guy's foot. Guy is not wearing safety shoes and gets toes crushed.

Break any link in the chain of failures and the accident doesn't happen. Also known as the swiss cheese model.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model
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Old 12-06-2012, 15:30   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
SAFETY WARNING! Worn Leather Holsters Can Cause Accidental Discharges!
On Glocks...

I've had plenty of well broken-in holsters for M1911s and they would not cause an AD/ND... Hell, some of the holsters didn't even cover the trigger and they never had an AD/ND... Must be that superior, more advanced, safety system of the M1911s...

<ducking-and-running-for-cover>

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