GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2012, 18:02   #241
carloglock19
Senior Member
 
carloglock19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 2,419
Ok Im thinking ahead a little.
1. Glock identifies that the gun left the factory in that condition, what will they do?
2. Glock identifies that the gun was modified somehow after it left the factory, will the gun shop take responsibility for this?
3. Glock finds that the gun is good to go and sends it back, what will the OP do and will the focus be put back on the Serpa?
Just some things to ponder until we get feedback from OP in reference to what Glock finds!


posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
USN AD
NRA Member
AK47 Club - 2006AFG
BRC - 2016
carloglock19 is offline  
Old 12-05-2012, 18:50   #242
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 16,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
I am actually working on ponying up the money for a newer p30 or USP!
Those are both very nice pistols. Maybe a Christmas present for yourself.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Cool songs:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Cool car:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
JuneyBooney is offline  
Old 12-05-2012, 19:51   #243
NCHeel
Senior Member
 
NCHeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Charlotte N.C.
Posts: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post


2) I always buy a gun straight out of the box. I would never buy the counter shelf gun on display. If they are not breaking the seal on a brand new Glock in front of you, I would not buy it. (They are sealed when shipped and only opened at the store. They should only be opened in front of the customer already buying it.)
I don't know where you shop. Every LGS I know verifies the serial on the gun to the serial on the box to the serial on the paperwork as soon as they get them. Opening a pistol box several weeks after you received it to only find out the serial # is not one that you have in inventory would get you a visit from the BATFE. Also when the BATFE shows up for an inspection they compare the numbers in your log to the numbers on the firearm. They don't look at the numbers on the box.
__________________
Gen4 G17, G19, G26. Love the Gen4's.

Glock and S&W M&P Certified Armorer
NRA certified RSO
NRA Instructor for pistol, rifle, shotgun & PPIH and PPOH

Last edited by NCHeel; 12-06-2012 at 00:01..
NCHeel is offline  
Old 12-05-2012, 19:58   #244
snowG29
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finestkind View Post
They should be able to tell you if it was used or not. They have to log where they purchased it and log it out to whom they sold it to.


Finestkind
FYI, Couple of months ago someone on S&W forums thought they may have been sold used 686 'as new' from same sore (Cleveland Location).

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-rev...per-dirty.html

That said, I buy all my reloading supplies there… and several revolver/pistol purchases (both Cleveland/Ashland). Bought a used .500 from them…

I think you'll agree they're top notch. I agree w/ Finestkind, I'd take it back in there and see what they have to say, or will do.

As busy as they are I'd have a hard time believing they would have the time to clean, let alone alter inventory.

Always see like new Glocks in used case and they seem to be getting top dollar for them. Just don't see them doing this…

Good luck.
snowG29 is offline  
Old 12-05-2012, 20:06   #245
nickxrs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
I'd bet a few dollars it was the holster that caused it, there is no possible way the gun could shoot itself. I trust my life with a loaded gen 3 23 with 3.5 pound trigger everyday.


Posted using [URL=http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/]Outdoor Hub Campfire[/URL]
nickxrs is offline  
Old 12-05-2012, 22:55   #246
.38 super
Observer
 
.38 super's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
1. The store I bought it from had already removed 90% of it, there was very little for me to remove after I purchased it (Fin, Feather, Fur in Ashland was where I purchased btw)

I personally cleaned and lubricated it with Hoppes #9 gun cleaner, and Hoppes Oil.

2. The discharge happened as I was setting the holster/weapon down, I was about to take my hand off the weapon completely and turn to walk into my kitchen and it fired.

Had to edit this because after thinking about it, i still had contact with the grip frame slightly when it fired.
Thanks. So I will assume again that you did not put any lubricant in both firing pin's and safety pin's channels. I will assume also, that you did not fully disassemble the gun to make sure two channels are dry. Again - I'm not saying it like you did something wrong, I would do it with new gun, especially if someone else cleaned it already, but there is nothing wrong I think to trust your LGS, I'm just trying to get to what we positively know and what we don't...
I will also assume that we don't know how the shop cleaned the gun and if you didn't check the two channels, it could be some unknown at this moment lubricant there.
Do you remember how the channel looked like when you and the second gunsmith found out about the bent spring ? Was it dry, was it dirty, any recollections ?

There are several ways we can go from here - fouling in the safety pin's channel ( I find this highly unusual from the reported rounds fired, but...) or a very common mistake - when whoever put the gun back, probably didn't place the spring in the pin's opening and did bend it when forced the slide, I've done it for myself few times...

Bent safety pin's spring will cause the pin to malfunction, they are several consequences from there, I don't want to speculate, in my experience, the pin did stuck up, I found about it when I cleaned the gun after the shooting...

Pin stuck in top position will allow the firing pin to ignite the primer, how will it cock all the way back and how it will be released, especially when the gun is in the holster - I don't think I know, but bent safety pin's spring is already one contributing factor for the discharge.
__________________
Μολων λαβε !
____________________________
Florida Glockers Club #1964
Калашников Клуб №1000
.38 super is offline  
Old 12-05-2012, 23:14   #247
.38 super
Observer
 
.38 super's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
Actually, it's both a lube and antisieze. I'm a technician
for Mercedes Benz and we use the same stuff for many
applications, also works well for the threads on driving
screws on pullers like on axle bearing puller/installer.
We use Wurth which is made in Germany
You are both - right and not. You're right, because in your work you use this on threads. It does work like lubricant and also prevents seizures. I had a body shop in Europe and went trough bunch of the same product - this is a great company...

In guns however, such "lubricant" is used primarily when they are stored for unknown period of time.
It is heavier and harder "lubricant" for gun use, there is nothing wrong to stay in your Glock but most people will simply go with the general rule to disassemble their new gun, to clean and inspect it and to lube it with lubricant of choice.
With or without it, gun with hard treatment as Tenifer or melonite will operate most likely without any lubricant or with whatever they decide to put in it, I've seen Glock lubed with heavy silicon based Astroglide... It feel just as you lubed it with Enos's red grease, only after shooting is terribly dirty...
__________________
Μολων λαβε !
____________________________
Florida Glockers Club #1964
Калашников Клуб №1000
.38 super is offline  
Old 12-05-2012, 23:44   #248
PattonT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,078
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Rod45 View Post
I seriously want to see a controlled test where someone tries to make a gun fire without physically pulling the trigger...
I had three close friends riding in a humvee in Afghanistan, 10deg out. The gunner had a M249 mounted in the turret but he is sitting in the truck it's so cold. The truck hits a series of bumps and the gun fires 3 rounds without anyone near it. The bolt was back and it was off safe. They were always known to be safe and honest as well as they had no reson to lie about it because the ammo wouldn't have been missed and the squad leader was in the truck. The gun was sent to the shop and the only answer they could get was the gun did have an out of spec part but they couldn't make the gun do it again. It got destroyed just in case.
__________________
Into Glocks and J frames
PattonT is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 00:08   #249
PEC-Memphis
Scottish Member
 
PEC-Memphis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Doh ?
Posts: 3,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt rock View Post
Expand your mind a little kid , If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck i can call it a damn sear .

I suppose there isn't a feed ramp or stripper rail/bar in a glock either - after all they are not mentioned in the armorer's manual or parts list.
__________________
To all members of our Armed Forces - past, present and future - thank you for your service to our country.
PEC-Memphis is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 01:06   #250
G23Gen4TX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,196
If the gun was sold as new bit was used and a previous owner did a bad trigger job polishing the FP lug and cruciform and also the FP safety block, then assemble it with a bent FP safety block spring so it is depressed all the time then yes, it could fire when dropped.
G23Gen4TX is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 03:19   #251
clarkz71
Senior Member
 
clarkz71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,608
Quote:
Originally Posted by .38 super View Post
You are both - right and not. You're right, because in your work you use this on threads. It does work like lubricant and also prevents seizures. I had a body shop in Europe and went trough bunch of the same product - this is a great company...

In guns however, such "lubricant" is used primarily when they are stored for unknown period of time.
It is heavier and harder "lubricant" for gun use, there is nothing wrong to stay in your Glock but most people will simply go with the general rule to disassemble their new gun, to clean and inspect it and to lube it with lubricant of choice.
With or without it, gun with hard treatment as Tenifer or melonite will operate most likely without any lubricant or with whatever they decide to put in it, I've seen Glock lubed with heavy silicon based Astroglide... It feel just as you lubed it with Enos's red grease, only after shooting is terribly dirty...
We're on the same page, I don't use it as a lube.

I was just correcting "LampShadeActual" saying it was NOT a lube.
I, like Glock would only use it for long term storage
which will not happen on my 23 because it's my EDC/CCW
__________________
Quote:
Real Men of Genius....Here's to you, Mister self proclaimed-genius-surrounded by idiots!
.
G23 gen3 .40/.357 Sig
Florida Glocker #1923

Last edited by clarkz71; 12-06-2012 at 03:20..
clarkz71 is online now  
Old 12-06-2012, 07:29   #252
ray9898
Senior Member
 
ray9898's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Georgia
Posts: 17,516


I do not see how it can be the holster. There is nothing inside a Serpa that could depress the trigger. The locking mechanism is well forward of the trigger and only makes contact with the front of the trigger guard.

It has to be the defects found by the armorer.

Last edited by ray9898; 12-06-2012 at 07:37..
ray9898 is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:04   #253
clarkz71
Senior Member
 
clarkz71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,608
A Glock armorer found defective parts in the gun.

We're past the holster theory.
__________________
Quote:
Real Men of Genius....Here's to you, Mister self proclaimed-genius-surrounded by idiots!
.
G23 gen3 .40/.357 Sig
Florida Glocker #1923
clarkz71 is online now  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:08   #254
JAS104
NRA Life Member
 
JAS104's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowjiber View Post
I read this thread an hour ago, but haven't been able to get it out of my mind since.

I'm hardly a gunsmith, but cannot logically figure out how a striker-fired Glock can fire without having the trigger go through its normal cycle.

That being said, I have a Serpa holster that I only wear when working in the yard. I've been looking at it for the past hour and can't see any way that the trigger can get pulled. The OP's discharge has scared the heck outta me, and my Serpa is staying in the drawer until we hear an answer that explains the issue.
I did the same thing. Handled 19, then the Blackhawk Serpa, then them both together, and couldnt figure it out. I see that the retention mechanism basically "grabs hold" of the trigger guard to keep the weapon in place, but I cant for the life of me figure out how it would've caused an AD/ND unless you draw the weapon and your finger slipped inside the trigger guard, OR there was something lodged in there. But, like you, I'm going to keep the serpa in the drawer until further review. Back to my ol faithful leather belt or Kingtuk IWB.
__________________
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. Ronald Reagan
JAS104 is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 08:31   #255
spcwes
Senior Member
 
spcwes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterWizard View Post
I would suspect a holster problem. I just see no way the gun could discharge on its own short of pulling the trigger, which the holster could have done somehow. The Blackhawk serpa holsters don't have a good track record. They've even been banned in some circles for various reasons, all safety related. I don't like them. And they are a poor conceal-carry holster. Much better options out there. I know some will disagree, but the number of negligent discharges caused directly or indirectly as a result of these holsters is undeniable.
All of the serpa issues I have seen were a user issue and not the holster. The part that engages the retention is below (well below) the trigger guard and only catches the front of the trigger guard not anywhere near the trigger.

I am not sure what caused this even through I would agree to look at everything but both items have fail safes to prevent this from happening. Unload the weapon and do everything you can holstering/unholstering to get a dry fire. You might also put it in the holster and slam it on the table a few times and check to see if the hammer drops.
__________________
"We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American perception that each individual is accountable for his/her actions." -Ronald Reagan-

Last edited by spcwes; 12-06-2012 at 08:32..
spcwes is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 09:04   #256
Fear Night
NRA Life Member
 
Fear Night's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 3,853
I'm interested to hear what Glock says.

The whole copper lube being taken off at the gun store just sounds weird to me. A gun store employee should have no reason to clean a factory NIB gun. Like others have mentioned, I'd guess the gun was "like new" on a trade, and the gun store took it apart to clean it.

Did the employee at the gun store bend the parts putting the gun back together? Did the original owner bend the parts or modify the trigger? Who knows. The fact that you say the trigger feels light, especially on a supposed brand new gun that isn't even supposed to be broken in yet, raises a huge alarm in my head. I would be shocked if it left the Glock factory in this condition.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by Fear Night; 12-06-2012 at 09:06..
Fear Night is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 13:49   #257
.38 super
Observer
 
.38 super's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
We're on the same page, I don't use it as a lube.

I was just correcting "LampShadeActual" saying it was NOT a lube.
I, like Glock would only use it for long term storage
which will not happen on my 23 because it's my EDC/CC
In some terms "lampShadeActual" is right... I cannot speak for anybody, but in gun terms, it is not a lubricant even it has some lubricating properties... See, when we use it in threads, the movement of the parts is slow and under significant pressure, with extremely tight tolerances. The coper itself works as a lubricant, the actual lubricant in this stuff plays only a role of medium for the coper content, if I can express it that way... In guns we have impact like movements, fairly lose tolerances and the coper content basically does not lubricate anything, because there is no tight enough surfaces that will squish it and take advantage of it's lubricating properties... I don't want to go there, but for lubrication it will work better if you "lube" your bore with it and than shoot some rounds, the coper will cover the bore the same way some dry lube will do it... Can you use it for this purpose ? Yes. Should you? No, there are much better products if you are looking for covering your bore with something that will decrease friction... It was just an example, where the anti-seize compound will probably be used...
I'm sure LampShadeActual meant "for use in guns" when he said " it's not a lubricant "...
__________________
Μολων λαβε !
____________________________
Florida Glockers Club #1964
Калашников Клуб №1000
.38 super is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 14:08   #258
tonyparson
Senior Member
 
tonyparson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dayton, TN.
Posts: 5,266
Page 37 of you Glock manual under "Cleaning and Field stripping the pistol"


Quote:
Note that the copper colored lubricant found on portions of the slide of brand new GLOCK pistols should not be removed as it will help to provide long term lubrication of the slide."
__________________
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.......
Thomas Jefferson

Last edited by tonyparson; 12-06-2012 at 14:11..
tonyparson is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 14:14   #259
blakestree
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
To be completely honest, now that I think about it the trigger pull on the pistol did seem a good amount lighter than my gen 3 and gen 2 glocks, but seeing as how I have never bought a new glock until this one, let alone a gen 4 I chalked it up to me being unfamiliar with it. It was not to the point that it seemed something was actually wrong though. Just reminded me of a light almost 4.5lb trigger pull or so.
I recently purchased a Gen4 G26 and I'm measuring its trigger pull at 4.5lbs. I thought that was odd, as I've seen people say the Gen4 trigger was heavier than Gen3s. I've watched videos of Gen3s measured between 5.5 and 6.5. And, Glock's current spec is 5.5lbs. I thought maybe I just got lucky with mine.
blakestree is offline  
Old 12-06-2012, 14:23   #260
rajbcpa
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 54
...dont carry with one in the pipe ...too dangerous!
rajbcpa is online now  

 
  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:03.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 829
179 Members
650 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42