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Old 12-05-2012, 06:30   #201
clarkz71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglefrq View Post
I didn't know you were supposed to leave the copper lube on as long as possible. I haven't looked at my owners manual in years.

I'm one of those guys that buys a gun and takes it to the range immediately and tries (not always successful) to put 500 rounds through it. Then I go home and thoroughly clean it.

My wife doesn't mind, she knows I'll be out of the house for a while, so I won't interrupt her craft time.
That's what Glock says, but I've read on the forums
many times that shooters bring the gun home, pull
the slide and clean & lube the gun including removing
the copper lube/anti sieze. Never heard of any issues
due to that.

I'm the same way, from the box to the range.

Same on the wife part too, anything to get me out
of the house so she can have some "alone time"
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:54   #202
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150 rounds total. Cleaned anti-sieze (its not a lube). Flame? Naw, I am really trying to point out how the machinery works. And the unlikelyhood of this chain being factory originated.

Glock does not "fit" pistols together. They are "assembled" with standard parts. The trigger bar and striker are so standard that they simply drop in as do all the other parts. Its called interchangable parts. Glock parts are as identical as anything made in the gun world.

IF, and I say IF, this pistol had the minimal sear engagement claimed, any fool would have known it. Why you ask?

Because it would feel like a 3# 1911 trigger sitting on a hair's edge. Or simply feel TOO good.

A new Glock these days is coming with a 6-7# trigger that pulls easily, gets hard, has movement you can feel, and then releases the striker. With 500 or 1000 rounds it gets smoother and drops to 5.5-6#, but does not get shorter nor lose the free travel to the harder pull spot.

When the engagement is down under 50%, the "hard" portion of the trigger travel becomes almost non existent. You cannot miss it. It feels good, you like it, but no one besides an idjit would shoot it. You just know something is wrong.

How do da' Glock get such a FUBAR trigger? Not by factory assembly. The first time an assembler pulled the trigger, they would know. No second half travel/engagement.

What usually happens is that a 25cent tuneup removes metal from the bottom of the striker tang or the top of the trigger bar engaging the tang. This reduces engagement. Or the assembly gets bent. Specifically the part that enters the drop safety shelf gets bent upward and lets the "sear" part drop down. Or the long arm of the bar gets bent and does the same thing.

Or worse, the angle of the "sear" changes or the angle of the tang changes, and the engagement becomes one of self sliding release. Now that one really feels smooth.

Polished away metal? Bent parts? Either highly likely.

Factory FUBAR assembly? Not likely.

(None of which covers the firing pin safety problem.)(To get it to fire, we have to stack FUBAR upon FUBAR.)

I would believe Mrs. White did it in the closet with the plunger before I believed Gaston did it.

(I'm the first to admit you are probably not having fun by this point. I'm sorry your gun is not working correctly and way more sorry it managed to fire unwantedly. Hell, I know what stupid feels like. Try asking a GlockTech if it matters if your older AA .22LR unit breaking off a brand new Glock Gen4's plastic assembly guides in front of the front rails matters for functionality. And the only nice thing the fellow can think of to say is, "That's novel." Yeah, I did that. I had never seen a word about the older AA units damaging Gen4 frames. While its just cosmetic, every time you disassemble it, you are reminded.)

Last edited by LampShadeActual; 12-05-2012 at 07:08..
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:29   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman11 View Post
Yeah, it's called "operator error"
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:49   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LampShadeActual View Post
150 rounds total. Cleaned anti-sieze (its not a lube). Flame? Naw, I am really trying to point out how the machinery works.
Actually, it's both a lube and antisieze. I'm a technician
for Mercedes Benz and we use the same stuff for many
applications, also works well for the threads on driving
screws on pullers like on axle bearing puller/installer.

We use Wurth which is made in Germany



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Last edited by clarkz71; 12-05-2012 at 07:54..
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:36   #205
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You guessed wrong, never had a problem myself, just seems like too many Glock owners are having accidents.

There was a story a few years ago when a guy was playing with his glock in the car while the wife was in the store. As he went to put it away after playing with it it went off into his leg and he died on the spot in front of his wife and kids.

It's always the same stories. "It just went off" "I swear I did not touch the trigger"

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
I guess your one of those people that have not mastered
keeping your finger out of the trigger guard when handling
a Glock.

One of the basic rules of gun safety, don't touch the
trigger until ready to fire.

The cop in the third video, had his finger in the trigger guard. No doubt, a ND.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:12   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter-Ego View Post
You guessed wrong, never had a problem myself, just seems like too many Glock owners are having accidents.

There was a story a few years ago when a guy was playing with his glock in the car while the wife was in the store. As he went to put it away after playing with it it went off into his leg and he died on the spot in front of his wife and kids.
It's always the same stories. "It just went off" "I swear I did not touch the trigger"
Thanks for clearing that up. I apologize for
making an assumption, I know better

I agree with you 100% on that. I read about that guy online.
Real dumb needless death.

And what about Plexico Burris, same deal.
Playing around, hand in the pocket of sweatpants
(no holster) and pop, jail, ruined career.
http://www.examiner.com/article/plax...mbling-a-glock
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Last edited by clarkz71; 12-05-2012 at 09:14..
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:23   #207
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OP,
Do you think there was a chance that the gun shop sold you a used handgun? I don't understand why a gun shop would clean their guns inside and out prior to being sold. Is this customary? I know its not what I see in my area. What if one of the employees got bored while cleaning it and decided to modify some stuff and play around with it or maybe it was a returned gun. All the Glocks that I bought new weren't cleaned until "I" the owner cleaned them and inspected them. I think we have ruled the holster as being the problem. With that said let us know what Glocks tells you. A couple of possibilities now:
1. It came FUBARed from Glock
2. Somebody tampered/modified/screwed with it before it got to you.
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Last edited by carloglock19; 12-05-2012 at 09:44..
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:26   #208
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Thats my whole point, are the typical glock owners too dumb to own them or are glocks just unsafe??

When it comes to accidents Glocks are at the top of the list, 1911 models close second,,, maybe?

Go to other brand forums, Kahr, Berretta, Smith, ect...
You just don't hear of so many AD/ND stories.

Is it the brand, or the people who buy them?? Debateable forever I guess.

But its good to have these debates I'm sure someone will come away with extra sence of caution when handling/ playing with firearms. Props to the OP for bringing this issue up

Personally, I feel more comfortable tucking away my Kahr or EMP.



Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post


I agree with you 100% on that. I read about that guy online.
Real dumb needless death.

And what about Plexico Burris, same deal.
Playing around, hand in the pocket of sweatpants
(no holster) and pop, jail, ruined career.
http://www.examiner.com/article/plax...mbling-a-glock
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:42   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter-Ego View Post
There was a story a few years ago when a guy was playing with his glock in the car while the wife was in the store. As he went to put it away after playing with it it went off into his leg and he died on the spot in front of his wife and kids.
Yeah, and IIRC, it was a worn leather holster that snagged the trigger. Not the gun's fault. User error.

Don't play with your loaded gun, people.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:01   #210
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I seriously want to see a controlled test where someone tries to make a gun fire without physically pulling the trigger...
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:23   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
Had an extremely dangerous and scary experience today.. I cant even describe how upset I am over this. Do not know how to completely explain how this just happened but here goes.

I came home from my daily errands today. I have my CCW and carry on a daily basis. Well after I walk into the house and put groceries etc down, I take my NEW G23 gen 4 in the holster off of my belt, and set it down on my kitchen table....as I sent it down THE PISTOL FIRES!! Right into my living room wall!!! I truly do not know how it was even able to?! MY finger was no where near the trigger...It was in a Serpa Holster so I was totally unable to pull the trigger even if I wanted too!! I did not throw the $@%$ pistol down hard onto the table or anything....I literally set it down like I always do... Thank God the GF wasnt home, the bullet did not go through the outer wall of my home, and myself nor neighbors were injured or worse....

I am just completely in shock over this..I have never in my life had this happen, I wouldnt think it was remotely possible... especially with a Glock(and I have owned many glocks as well as other pistols over the past 10 years now with no AD/ND or anything ever) I have since put the now unloaded pistol in its case and I am going to be calling Glock tomorrow morning....

Does anyone know how this is possible?! Or have they had this happen before?! I truly am just shocked and amazed over this. I checked the Glocks function and it seemed normal, the ejected casing had a normal firing pin strike on the primer (obviously since the pistol fired, but I wanted to make sure the round somehow didnt fire of its own accord)

I just truly do not trust this weapon at all now and am just very upset and didnt know where else to put this.

Glocks are known for going bang. The trigger safety has always been an issue and their models should be updated to have the grip safety like the 1911 firearms received after they were very popular and they were "going boom by accident". The gun should be sent back to Glock to see if it is defective and you should check the ammo to check for defects. Most of the time it is always "operator error" but I do have to say that you should be carrying an HK.

I would also place snap caps in the firearm, cock it and place the holster on it and try to duplicate the event. Maybe you touched the holster where it could place pressure upon the trigger and cause it ti fire. Remember what I said...."the Glock trigger safety sucks".

Keep finger away from trigger in a Glock until you have a safe background etc. Any damage to the home?

But I have seen some ammo go off for no reason over the years. So check everything out.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:42   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
Actually, it's both a lube and antisieze. I'm a technician
for Mercedes Benz and we use the same stuff for many
applications, also works well for the threads on driving
screws on pullers like on axle bearing puller/installer.

We use Wurth which is made in Germany
You beat me to it. I was going to link to the anti-seize website that explains how the stuff is a friction reducing lubricant.

I'm in the automotive business as well and have studied fastener metallurgy extensively, so I'm pretty familiar with lubricant-based friction reduction.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:51   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alter-Ego View Post
Thats my whole point, are the typical glock owners too dumb to own them or are glocks just unsafe??

Is it the brand, or the people who buy them?? Debateable forever I guess.

But its good to have these debates I'm sure someone will come away with extra sence of caution when handling/ playing with firearms. Props to the OP for bringing this issue up

Personally, I feel more comfortable tucking away my Kahr or EMP.
First I believe the reason you hear about so many AD/ND
with Glocks is there are so many out there. Very popular
gun with all the movies using them & of course LEO use.

Second, many of those that purchase them never get
any form of training on safe handling and basic shooting
skills. They buy them, go to the range and shoot 50
rounds and that's it. It's both the platform & non-shooters
that are the problem. The Glock itself is a safe gun.

Again your right that this topic has come up and discussing
it may help to get some people to go take a gun safty course.

Last, you and any other shooter needs to feel comfortable
with their carry gun 100% so in a high stress situation
you will have the best chance of coming out of it alive
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:26   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
Remember what I said...."the Glock trigger safety sucks".
How so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
Keep finger away from trigger in a Glock until you have a safe background etc.
That goes for any firearm, not just Glock


Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
The trigger safety has always been an issue and their models should be updated to have the grip safety like the 1911 firearms received after they were very popular and they were "going boom by accident".
ALL 1911's have a grip safty. The military told Browning to add them to the gun along with a thumb safty. That is from day 1

The first 45 had neither, a 1905 model.

The top pic is a 1905, bottom 1911
The 1911 in the pic was produced in 1910.


General Glocking









General Glocking
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Last edited by clarkz71; 12-05-2012 at 11:27..
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:32   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
First I believe the reason you hear about so many AD/ND
with Glocks is there are so many out there. Very popular
gun with all the movies using them & of course LEO use.

Second, many of those that purchase them never get
any form of training on safe handling and basic shooting
skills. They buy them, go to the range and shoot 50
rounds and that's it. It's both the platform & non-shooters
that are the problem. The Glock itself is a safe gun.

Again your right that this topic has come up and discussing
it may help to get some people to go take a gun safty course.

Last, you and any other shooter needs to feel comfortable
with their carry gun 100% so in a high stress situation
you will have the best chance of coming out of it alive
Ding, Ding, we have a winner.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:33   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cglaspel View Post
Hey again guys!

OK so due to the amount of questions and responses it is hard for me to respond to them all, so I apologize if I miss some of them! Also I have been at work all day so no way to post until now.

Anyways, SO took it to a SECOND Glock Armorer today, and thank goodness I did, I now have an answer,

#1- Firing pin block spring was bent, not straight like it should have been!!!

#2 The "sear" is not engaging the lug on the firing pin assembly properly!!

He says that since both of these issues are there, that It is highly likely that the pistol fired from the "half cocked" position. Obviously I am now having him ship this to GLOCK to correct this issue immediately. This is pretty ridiculous that a brand new pistol had these MAJOR defects. I am sure Glock will make it right though.

I have fired the pistol before and never had an issue with it, so IDK how this had not fired while in the holster before....I am just extremely thankful it didnt hurt myself or anyone else!!

Very thankful to a fellow poster here that told me to specifically have my armorer look at these parts closely!!
Great info and thanks for posting it.

I assume that your pistol still has the original ribbed trigger with trigger bar in it. I'm only asking because a lot of folks like to have them changed out for the smooth trigger with trigger bar when they buy them and would probably still consider their pistol stock (as you said it was) because the original trigger was replaced with a Glock OEM part.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:39   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Rod45 View Post
I seriously want to see a controlled test where someone tries to make a gun fire without physically pulling the trigger...
I was thinking about making a video about this several times. All I need to do is to chop one of my spare slide back plates in half so that I can gain access to the firing pin/striker lug and the rear/sear of the trigger bar so that I can push down the the rear end of the trigger bar with an small flat headed screw driver which would release the striker.

The problem with simulating this is the firing pin safety block. It might fire with an ~ 65-70% pre-set striker, if I completely remove the safety block. But it might not, even if the safety block and its spring is incorretly installed.

I would not suggest anyone doing this with a hot round though because it could end bloody when it fires and the slide comes back at your fingers and your screw driver. It can end even deadly if the gun slips out of your hand while you manipulate it. Eventough it's not hard stop the slide from coming back with just your thumb pressure while firing. But the slide is hard to stop ones it started moving.

One can 100% simulate a hot round with an empty shell casing, no gun powder and no projetile in it, just the primer, or you use a blank round.

PLEASE DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!!!
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:42   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
How so?



That goes for any firearm, not just Glock




ALL 1911's have a grip safty. The military told Browning to add them to the gun along with a thumb safty. That is from day 1

The first 45 had neither, a 1905 model.

The top pic is a 1905, bottom 1911
The 1911 in the pic was produced in 1910.


General Glocking









General Glocking
I was talking about the 80 series vs the 70 series. I think Glocks are inherently dangerous because if something hits that little safety , the trigger moves easily. If they had the grip safety too I don't think the Glocks would be as prone to accidental discharge.

To me the best aiming gun is a five inch 1911. When I instruct people with Glocks for the first time I leave the chamber empty for the first draws. They always seem to shoot while drawing.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:50   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
I was talking about the 80 series vs the 70 series. I think Glocks are inherently dangerous because if something hits that little safety , the trigger moves easily. If they had the grip safety too I don't think the Glocks would be as prone to accidental discharge.

To me the best aiming gun is a five inch 1911. When I instruct people with Glocks for the first time I leave the chamber empty for the first draws. They always seem to shoot while drawing.
If they shoot while drawing, wouldn't they do the same thing with any handgun.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:00   #220
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Guns dont go off by themselves. Really need to take a good look at this!!
Defective/broken guns do.

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