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Old 11-30-2012, 09:14   #21
JimP
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some people here are confusing their rights....they seem to think that one can say anything they desire. Not so. Your freedoms stop at the point where they impact my freedoms.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:33   #22
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some people here are confusing their rights....they seem to think that one can say anything they desire. Not so. Your freedoms stop at the point where they impact my freedoms.
How does anything spoken infringe on any of your freedoms?

And to preempt--you have no right to not be offended.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:40   #23
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Go shout "Fire" in a crowded theater and let me know how that works out for you.

Hit me in the face with your fist and let me know how that works out for you.

Mock and belittle a little disabled girl as an adult and let me know how that works out for you.... Well, not fair as we already know it is a sentecne enhancing act that will assist in you getting 30 days in the slammer.

You have a right to go about your business without being accosted, assaulted, humiliated, or stalked by an adult with impulse control issues.

Just as we have the criminal code to address the givernment interfering with our peaceful day; we have the civil system to address you acting the fool to a little disabled girl.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:44   #24
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Mock and belittle a little disabled girl as an adult and let me know how that works out for you.... Well, not fair as we already know it is a sentecne enhancing act that will assist in you getting 30 days in the slammer.

You have a right to go about your business without being accosted, assaulted, humiliated, or stalked by an adult with impulse control issues.

Just as we have the criminal code to address the givernment interfering with our peaceful day; we have the civil system to address you acting the fool to a little disabled girl.
Snipped irrelevant stuff.

You *do* think that there is some right in life to not be offended.

You're wrong.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:48   #25
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Bigger, stronger dude torments a mother and her disabled child. This really sounds like a case of bullying, and without a doubt bullying is a problem. We've heard several disgusting stories in the news as to what bullying can lead to. The question now becomes "what should the public do about it?"

Do we make it illegal for somebody to mock somebody else? Maybe.

Wouldn't that be a violation of the individual's 1st ammendment rights? Absolutely.

So what's the real solution? I don't know.

What's the cause? The feminization of the American male... More and more "men" are growing up almost "needing" to pick on somebody weaker than themselves (just look at most of our politicians)... And yet fewer and fewer "men" have the gumption to stand up for those who are unable to defend themselves.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:04   #26
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...People need to realize that there are consequences for when they say things others deem unacceptable.
If the majority of a people deem it IS ACCEPTABLE to make fun of disabled children does that make it okay? What this person did was objectively wrong regardless of anyone's opinion. However, it is also wrong to incarcerate people for saying hurtful things. Who decides what is hurtful? It never ceases to amaze me how emotional responses to ignorance inevitably lead to forcibly degrading liberty. I want people to be nice so let us force them. I want people to be healthy so let us force them. I want people to avoid firearms so let us force them. I will take "too much" freedom over too little freedom every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. Do humans have an inalienable right to not be made fun of?
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:11   #27
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It's the difference between adults and children. Adults move around and make things happen in the "big world". Kids have no such ability, and are reliant upon adults to be their guardians and protectors. When an adult betrays that child's trust, (especially one with a disability) and uses their naivete and helpless nature to harm them, then they've crossed a line that is not recognized by the First Amendment, or any civil human being for that matter.
Please tell me when being a big mouth ass became not protected by the first amendment.

As despicable as this guys words are, he is protected by the same amendment that allows this forum of debate.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:11   #28
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If the majority of a people deem it IS ACCEPTABLE to make fun of disabled children does that make it okay? What this person did was objectively wrong regardless of anyone's opinion. However, it is also wrong to incarcerate people for saying hurtful things. Who decides what is hurtful? It never ceases to amaze me how emotional responses to ignorance inevitably lead to forcibly degrading liberty. I want people to be nice so let us force them. I want people to be healthy so let us force them. I want people to avoid firearms so let us force them. I will take "too much" freedom over too little freedom every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. Do humans have an inalienable right to not be made fun of?
Harumph, Harumph.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:26   #29
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Originally Posted by ArrowJ View Post
If the majority of a people deem it IS ACCEPTABLE to make fun of disabled children does that make it okay? What this person did was objectively wrong regardless of anyone's opinion. However, it is also wrong to incarcerate people for saying hurtful things. Who decides what is hurtful? It never ceases to amaze me how emotional responses to ignorance inevitably lead to forcibly degrading liberty. I want people to be nice so let us force them. I want people to be healthy so let us force them. I want people to avoid firearms so let us force them. I will take "too much" freedom over too little freedom every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. Do humans have an inalienable right to not be made fun of?
I've got an idea... A solution, even! How about, instead of making it illegal to mock the girl, we make it legal for somebody to beat this bully into his own state of mental retardation and be responsible for his actions. In other words, the defense of "he had it coming to him". Add in multiple witnesses who will attest to the fact that "he had it coming to him" plus an independent 3rd party investigator... BOOM! WINNING!

Just a suggestion.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:30   #30
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This guy doesn't need jailtime. He needs to be beaten to within an inch of his life and left in a gutter.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:34   #31
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Originally Posted by ballr4lyf View Post
I've got an idea... A solution, even! How about, instead of making it illegal to mock the girl, we make it legal for somebody to beat this bully into his own state of mental retardation and be responsible for his actions. In other words, the defense of "he had it coming to him". Add in multiple witnesses who will attest to the fact that "he had it coming to him" plus an independent 3rd party investigator... BOOM! WINNING!

Just a suggestion.
Kinda like Washington States Mutual Combat law. Only the ass would have to agree to get a beat down.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:36   #32
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Adult?
No, that was just one of America's millions of large, nasty, children.

This society has removed all incentive to grow up, be responsible, and serve as a role model for the real children.

Nasty is cool. Stupid is cool. Being dependent is cool. It's the world 'turned upside down'.
Agreed . . . we're stuck with a couple generations of adult children out there and its getting worse not better.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:56   #33
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This guy doesn't need jailtime. He needs to be beaten to within an inch of his life and left in a gutter.
There is a lot of this attitude too. I guess I would have been left in a gutter years ago. I have done things I am not proud of. Apparently, either most guys have not or the threshold for what calls for a gutter beating is lower than I think it should be. How about some societal and commercial ostracization? "You are the dude i read about in the paper! I will not sell you groceries, toilet paper, ammo, life insurance, whatever." Maybe he would actually be forced to grow up and participate appropriately in the given community or to leave?
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:57   #34
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The story has him pleading no contest to both charges and being sentenced. IMO, the disorderly conduct charge (child mocking) should have been dismissed and he should have been maxed out on the threats charge.

Yes, despicable. On the level of the Westboro Church. And therefore just as protected.
Why dismiss the disorderly?

A statement or utterance of coarse or obviously offensive gesture intended to bring upon a breach of peace or encourage fighting?

My little brother has CP. If an adult male were to knowingly act that way in front of me when he was 10 years old (I would have been 21 and still making rash decisions lol) I would have made sure he walked the same way for the rest of his life.

Sounds like the elements were met to me.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:14   #35
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Why dismiss the disorderly?

A statement or utterance of coarse or obviously offensive gesture intended to bring upon a breach of peace or encourage fighting?

My little brother has CP. If an adult male were to knowingly act that way in front of me when he was 10 years old (I would have been 21 and still making rash decisions lol) I would have made sure he walked the same way for the rest of his life.

Sounds like the elements were met to me.
Because a Constitutionally protected act cannot be the basis for a crime. Pretty well settled by the Nazis in Skokie.

ETA: note that something falling into a time, manner or place restriction automatically falls out from the umbrella of protection. Noice ordinances good, content based restriction bad.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:17   #36
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Please tell me when being a big mouth ass became not protected by the first amendment.

As despicable as this guys words are, he is protected by the same amendment that allows this forum of debate.
If you don't see the crime in abusing a disabled girl, who has no means of defending or protecting herself, then you're beyond help.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:24   #37
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If you don't see the crime in abusing a disabled girl, who has no means of defending or protecting herself, then you're beyond help.
One of us may be. I don't see the crime in Westboro, either. Or in the Nazi rally in predominantly Jewish Skokie. Or in a whole lot of stomach-turning posts on the Internet.

Speech you approve of isn't the speech that needs protection.

(Kinda weird that a cop is here opposing the mob howl for government coercion to be applied to the unpopular guy. I expect to be richly rewarded in karma points. )
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:37   #38
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Because a Constitutionally protected act cannot be the basis for a crime. Pretty well settled by the Nazis in Skokie.

ETA: note that something falling into a time, manner or place restriction automatically falls out from the umbrella of protection. Noice ordinances good, content based restriction bad.
The States of Colorado and Texas must be slow catching on. We still have content based restriction within the elements of Disturbing the Peace and Disorderly Conduct.

Lots of States, like Ohio, have "fighting words" elements placed within their statutes which are enforced and prosecuted with convictions, daily.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:38   #39
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Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
One of us may be. I don't see the crime in Westboro, either. Or in the Nazi rally in predominantly Jewish Skokie. Or in a whole lot of stomach-turning posts on the Internet.

Speech you approve of isn't the speech that needs protection.

(Kinda weird that a cop is here opposing the mob howl for government coercion to be applied to the unpopular guy. I expect to be richly rewarded in karma points. )


Yeah, I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone not immediately agreeing with your position.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:44   #40
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This is not about free speech. This is about an adult being cruel to a child. It's about abusing and harming a minor. This is what's so effed up about our country. It's not morally wrong for children to set up lemonade stands, but in many cases it's illegal, and the cops will shut them down without question. On the other hand, it is morally wrong to hurt children, but it's not always illegal to do so, and then you get cops defending the right of adults to verbally abuse children. For Christ's sakes.
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