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Old 11-25-2012, 21:24   #21
ithaca_deerslayer
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I think you have to take out the brain stem (like a neck shot) for them to drop and not kick around. Just a brain shot leaves the stem to control some involuntary spasms.

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I bet you are correct.

Looking like my 1st shot was right enough. Deer definitely seemed out. Should have just waited the 5 minutes for it to go stiff. Next time (if happen upon another non-heart/lung downed deer), I'm going to aim a little deeper toward the base of the ear, more toward the stem than the center of the brain.

Anyone favor a neck shot for the kill shot in this situation? Maybe at the base of the skull, center of the neck, a tad closer toward the top of the neck to get the spine?
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:55   #22
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Some hunters, like little kids, should stay on the porch
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:12   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish View Post
I think you have to take out the brain stem (like a neck shot) for them to drop and not kick around. Just a brain shot leaves the stem to control some involuntary spasms.

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Pretty much. A 380 wasn't a bad thing to finish it. A .22 short WILL drop a deer in it's tracks. But it's all about placement.

And sometimes they keep moving around after they are really dead.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:13   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer View Post
Anyone favor a neck shot for the kill shot in this situation? Maybe at the base of the skull, center of the neck, a tad closer toward the top of the neck to get the spine?
I always favor a neck shot. Closer to the base of the neck as it doesn't move around as much or as quickly as the head. Never had one move after I shot them there.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:18   #25
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Some hunters, like little kids, should stay on the porch
Cool
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:32   #26
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Pretty much. A 380 wasn't a bad thing to finish it. A .22 short WILL drop a deer in it's tracks. But it's all about placement.

And sometimes they keep moving around after they are really dead.
Maybe a perfect shot would work with a .380 up real close from the right position. I think that's what my brother was thinking. But in a thicket, wild animal, hard to get that type of perfect shot.

A .22LR from a rifle has more velocity, less surface area, and better penetration. I've done that comparison to a .380 in backyard tests. Not sure how a .22 short would compare. Probably works fine like you say, I've just never tried a short on anything.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:31   #27
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I think you have to take out the brain stem (like a neck shot) for them to drop and not kick around. Just a brain shot leaves the stem to control some involuntary spasms.
My first deer was a button buck with a 16 ga slug. It blew the top of his skull off, (I found brain matter hanging in a nearby tree!) but he kept thrashing for several minutes. (it seemed!) I emptied my shotgun into his head to try to keep him from running away!

My buddy finally came up and said "He's dead, he's dead, save your ammo!"
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:09   #28
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My first deer was a button buck with a 16 ga slug. It blew the top of his skull off, (I found brain matter hanging in a nearby tree!) but he kept thrashing for several minutes. (it seemed!) I emptied my shotgun into his head to try to keep him from running away!

My buddy finally came up and said "He's dead, he's dead, save your ammo!"
Do you remember if he was breathing after that shot? Sounds like a chaotic moment, so maybe you wouldn't have noticed.

I've been reading, since this original post, about methods used in slaughter houses and culling of deer from parks (thanks PETA types for the links). It seems there is general agreement that a headshot "dead" animal will show no movement of the head, eyes, ears, neck, nor breathing, but the legs will still move.

What I am less certain of is if a "dead" animal's legs will only move chaotically, or if they can seem to move in response to stimulus such as when being grabbed.

If anyone has links that discuss dead animals' legs moving only when being grabbed, please share that information. Thanks!
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Old 11-27-2012, 15:28   #29
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.What I am less certain of is if a "dead" animal's legs will only move chaotically, or if they can seem to move in response to stimulus such as when being grabbed.

If anyone has links that discuss dead animals' legs moving only when being grabbed, please share that information. Thanks!
My 8 point this year, kill shot was through the heart, but he was still trying to get up. Twice, we thought he had expired, my buddy grabbed his antlers and the deer tried to shake him off.
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Old 11-27-2012, 16:07   #30
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My 8 point this year, kill shot was through the heart, but he was still trying to get up. Twice, we thought he had expired, my buddy grabbed his antlers and the deer tried to shake him off.
Now that's a story!

Heart shot, he ain't going far. Just stand back and give him a minute to expire
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Old 11-28-2012, 20:07   #31
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Not much to say. Killing critters sometimes ain't as clean as we would like it to be and of course sometimes there are variables surrounding the shot that are beyond our control. You hunt enough and sooner or later you will wound something. Sometimes you will recover the animal sometimes not. Percentage wise most of the animals you take should be clean but again, hunt enough and the law of large numbers will catch up to you and you'll botch a shot. You try to do the right thing but it doesn't always work out that way. You are shooting at a living breathing creature from an infinite number of angles with an infinite number of physiological variations. Forget the fact that only rarely do these things sit perfectly still while we shoot them....
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Old 11-28-2012, 20:31   #32
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Not much to say. Killing critters sometimes ain't as clean as we would like it to be and of course sometimes there are variables surrounding the shot that are beyond our control. You hunt enough and sooner or later you will wound something. Sometimes you will recover the animal sometimes not. Percentage wise most of the animals you take should be clean but again, hunt enough and the law of large numbers will catch up to you and you'll botch a shot. You try to do the right thing but it doesn't always work out that way. You are shooting at a living breathing creature from an infinite number of angles with an infinite number of physiological variations. Forget the fact that only rarely do these things sit perfectly still while we shoot them....
I agree with you if you are rabbit or bird hunting. But firing away at a jumped deer isn't prudent.

If you hunt long enough, and scout enough you learn where to set up so they come to you. And with a little patience you will likely be rewarded with an acceptable shot on a large animal with a high likelihood of a one shot kill.

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Old 11-28-2012, 20:42   #33
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I agree with you if you are rabbit or bird hunting. But firing away at a jumped deer isn't prudent.

If you hunt long enough, and scout enough you learn where to set up so they come to you. And with a little patience you will likely be rewarded with an acceptable shot on a large animal with a high likelihood of a one shot kill.
Yeah, that's a good point. Jump shooting increases the chances of a wounded deer. My brothers, all older than me, have been doing it for many years.

I can't really say if it is ethical or not. It isn't my method. I prefer to sit and wait.
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Old 11-28-2012, 21:31   #34
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Since 1967 I have lost exactly 1 deer. I have only needed to pull the trigger more than once on one deer. It was the same deer... I am gong to tell you that was in 1990-1992 or thereabouts. Four experienced hunters searched for sign to track that deer until it was long after dark. No blood, Nothing. It was found dead by a relative about a week later and the very impressive rack is in the house of a friend of mine. Losing that deer still bothers me.

My 3 grown sons have a better record than me. None of them have ever pulled the trigger more than once. And they all started deer hunting at 11-12 years old.

I don't walk and jump deer to get a shot. I hunt property that is either family farm or land I have been on for years, or with friends that know the property. No reason to chase the deer. If you look hard enough and long enough during the summer, you will know where they are when deer season opens.

Just the way I was raised and the way I raised my sons.

Someone else mentioned waiting after the shot. You should always do that. Make your shot, then watch which direction it goes and listen hard. You will often hear it fall or lay down. Sit there quietly and in 20 minutes it will be dead.

I don't seriously deer hunt anymore. I do it to be with my sons, my elderly father, father-in-law and friends. I make sure they get the spots I think will produce. I will set up somewhere and if something worth killing walks by, I will take the shot. Other than that I just relax and hope the best for others. Pheasant hunting has been my passion for 25 years.

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Old 11-28-2012, 21:50   #35
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. Sit there quietly and in 20 minutes it will be dead.
Depends on where it was shot.

If it ain't dead in 20 minutes, then what?

I shot a deer with an arrow too far back. Waited half an hour, tracked slow for two hours. Found the deer laying 100 yards from my tree stand. Still breathing, head up, alert. I put another arrow through both lungs, and the deer was dead in a minute.

The first shot was ideal setup, maybe 30 yards, standing broadside, I just sent the arrow too far back on the deer from my aim point.

Most deer I double lung with that first shot, only need one shot. Heck, I do most my hunting with either a single shot pistol or single shot slug gun.

Wish I could say I've gotten every deer with one shot, and they dropped dead right there. That's the ideal I strive for. But that buck took two arrows in him from me, 2.5 hours apart.

This deer in my OP story is the only one I've ever tried to head shoot, and it wasn't even my wounded deer. Was just surprised it didn't magically hit the off switch.

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Old 11-28-2012, 21:58   #36
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A broadhead will bleed them out. If it was down and just not dead, I would back off, sit down and let it die. There isn't any reason to rush up on it and jump it up once it has laid down to die.

If it looked like it was suffering, I may stick another arrow in it though.


Years ago my middle son shot a deer. We met at the truck, dropped the guns off and then went into the pines to find it. It was laying just about where he thought. As we walked up we assumed it was dead. It started to jump so we backed off. It went about 10 yards and laid down again but didn't die. So I left him there in case it took off and walked all the way out to the truck to get a gun. Walked all the way back in with the gun, just to find out it had died while I was walking. I guess the moral is, they will die if you just leave them alone and let them.

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Old 11-29-2012, 10:12   #37
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I agree with you if you are rabbit or bird hunting. But firing away at a jumped deer isn't prudent.

If you hunt long enough, and scout enough you learn where to set up so they come to you. And with a little patience you will likely be rewarded with an acceptable shot on a large animal with a high likelihood of a one shot kill.

It depends. I hunted in Europe a good deal and shooting at large driven game is extremely ingrained in their hunting experience.

Likewise, if you hunt deer in many parts of the south deer drives with dogs are par for the course and you are expected to make shots on running game.

Not everyone shoots deer or large game out of a deer stand.


Pay attention around :50 into the video.

Just because you hunt that way doesn't mean its the only way things are done.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:51   #38
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Shooting at a running deer is hard and gits harder as the distance increased. The video that was posted of the boars running, how many where missed? What was the distance? What's the experience of that hunter?

In deer drives down here, it's slightly better since you have about 3+ guns ( shotgun, rifles,etc....) Pointed at that deer, but to be honest only 1 or 2 hunts actually connects with the animal from my experience and being on a few myself.


This reminds of the post that WalterGA was on where a guy was claiming headshots at running deer @ 600yards. Funny as hell

For me I want my animal stationary and look down or away. Just call me simple.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:59   #39
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It depends. I hunted in Europe a good deal and shooting at large driven game is extremely ingrained in their hunting experience.
That is not "my style" of hunting, but that is some dam impressive shooting.
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Old 11-30-2012, 17:15   #40
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Shooting at a running deer is hard and gits harder as the distance increased. The video that was posted of the boars running, how many where missed? What was the distance? What's the experience of that hunter?

In deer drives down here, it's slightly better since you have about 3+ guns ( shotgun, rifles,etc....) Pointed at that deer, but to be honest only 1 or 2 hunts actually connects with the animal from my experience and being on a few myself.


This reminds of the post that WalterGA was on where a guy was claiming headshots at running deer @ 600yards. Funny as hell

For me I want my animal stationary and look down or away. Just call me simple.
Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

You live in Germany and want a hunting license you have to pass a shooting test. You are expected to hit a running boar target 3 out of 5 times in the kill zone at 50 meters. You will also have to hit a Roe deer target offhand at 100 meters and hit a certain number of clay targets shot on the skeet range under international rules (low gun).

Shooting running game is a skillset that is expected of even a novice hunter in Europe.

They also have a target shooting competition centered around moving game targets. So again--its part of their culture and heritage.

Personally, I feel the hunters in this nation have become too anal when it comes to shooting game. We all want guns that are benchrest accurate and we want animals that stand still with only a classic heart lung shot being the right answer. This attitude displays a very narrow view of game anatomy and reflects a limited skillset that shows how tied we are to shooting off the bench. Lets face it...if I asked the average hunter to get into a sitting position and get off an aimed shot at 200 yard in under 10 seconds most would look at me like I have horns growing out of my head.

We mostly no longer have hunters with an understanding of practical accuracy or improvised shots under field conditions.
If I asked you if you could use a gun with a 2.5 MOA degree of accuracy to reliably kill deer at 300 yards most people would scoff. Yet such a gun is EASILY capable of such as task...if the hunter can hold it that well...

European hunters are more proficient and more skilled on average. People here have a hard time believing it can be done because they don't see it being done by anyone. But I promise...its done all the time by in other venues by hunters with experience all across the world. There was a time it was common practice here as well... Hitting a moving target inside of 25 yards is easier than you think even with a bow if you practice...
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