GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-27-2012, 06:32   #26
ithaca_deerslayer
Senior Member
 
ithaca_deerslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 18,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hauptmann6 View Post
Pretty much. A 380 wasn't a bad thing to finish it. A .22 short WILL drop a deer in it's tracks. But it's all about placement.

And sometimes they keep moving around after they are really dead.
Maybe a perfect shot would work with a .380 up real close from the right position. I think that's what my brother was thinking. But in a thicket, wild animal, hard to get that type of perfect shot.

A .22LR from a rifle has more velocity, less surface area, and better penetration. I've done that comparison to a .380 in backyard tests. Not sure how a .22 short would compare. Probably works fine like you say, I've just never tried a short on anything.
ithaca_deerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 08:31   #27
ADK_40GLKr
Senior Member
 
ADK_40GLKr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: RFD NY Adks
Posts: 2,127
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish View Post
I think you have to take out the brain stem (like a neck shot) for them to drop and not kick around. Just a brain shot leaves the stem to control some involuntary spasms.
My first deer was a button buck with a 16 ga slug. It blew the top of his skull off, (I found brain matter hanging in a nearby tree!) but he kept thrashing for several minutes. (it seemed!) I emptied my shotgun into his head to try to keep him from running away!

My buddy finally came up and said "He's dead, he's dead, save your ammo!"
__________________
Luke 22:36 He said to them, “... if you don’t have a Glock, sell your cloak and buy one."

NRA, GSSF, IDPA, NY voter.
ADK_40GLKr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:09   #28
ithaca_deerslayer
Senior Member
 
ithaca_deerslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 18,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADK_40GLKr View Post
My first deer was a button buck with a 16 ga slug. It blew the top of his skull off, (I found brain matter hanging in a nearby tree!) but he kept thrashing for several minutes. (it seemed!) I emptied my shotgun into his head to try to keep him from running away!

My buddy finally came up and said "He's dead, he's dead, save your ammo!"
Do you remember if he was breathing after that shot? Sounds like a chaotic moment, so maybe you wouldn't have noticed.

I've been reading, since this original post, about methods used in slaughter houses and culling of deer from parks (thanks PETA types for the links). It seems there is general agreement that a headshot "dead" animal will show no movement of the head, eyes, ears, neck, nor breathing, but the legs will still move.

What I am less certain of is if a "dead" animal's legs will only move chaotically, or if they can seem to move in response to stimulus such as when being grabbed.

If anyone has links that discuss dead animals' legs moving only when being grabbed, please share that information. Thanks!
ithaca_deerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 14:28   #29
ADK_40GLKr
Senior Member
 
ADK_40GLKr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: RFD NY Adks
Posts: 2,127
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer View Post
.What I am less certain of is if a "dead" animal's legs will only move chaotically, or if they can seem to move in response to stimulus such as when being grabbed.

If anyone has links that discuss dead animals' legs moving only when being grabbed, please share that information. Thanks!
My 8 point this year, kill shot was through the heart, but he was still trying to get up. Twice, we thought he had expired, my buddy grabbed his antlers and the deer tried to shake him off.
__________________
Luke 22:36 He said to them, “... if you don’t have a Glock, sell your cloak and buy one."

NRA, GSSF, IDPA, NY voter.
ADK_40GLKr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 15:07   #30
ithaca_deerslayer
Senior Member
 
ithaca_deerslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 18,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADK_40GLKr View Post
My 8 point this year, kill shot was through the heart, but he was still trying to get up. Twice, we thought he had expired, my buddy grabbed his antlers and the deer tried to shake him off.
Now that's a story!

Heart shot, he ain't going far. Just stand back and give him a minute to expire
ithaca_deerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 19:07   #31
Big Bird
NRA Life Member
 
Big Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,039
Not much to say. Killing critters sometimes ain't as clean as we would like it to be and of course sometimes there are variables surrounding the shot that are beyond our control. You hunt enough and sooner or later you will wound something. Sometimes you will recover the animal sometimes not. Percentage wise most of the animals you take should be clean but again, hunt enough and the law of large numbers will catch up to you and you'll botch a shot. You try to do the right thing but it doesn't always work out that way. You are shooting at a living breathing creature from an infinite number of angles with an infinite number of physiological variations. Forget the fact that only rarely do these things sit perfectly still while we shoot them....
__________________
Big Bird,

“Est Nulla Via Invia Virute”

Last edited by Big Bird; 11-28-2012 at 19:09..
Big Bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 19:31   #32
Jonesee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
Not much to say. Killing critters sometimes ain't as clean as we would like it to be and of course sometimes there are variables surrounding the shot that are beyond our control. You hunt enough and sooner or later you will wound something. Sometimes you will recover the animal sometimes not. Percentage wise most of the animals you take should be clean but again, hunt enough and the law of large numbers will catch up to you and you'll botch a shot. You try to do the right thing but it doesn't always work out that way. You are shooting at a living breathing creature from an infinite number of angles with an infinite number of physiological variations. Forget the fact that only rarely do these things sit perfectly still while we shoot them....
I agree with you if you are rabbit or bird hunting. But firing away at a jumped deer isn't prudent.

If you hunt long enough, and scout enough you learn where to set up so they come to you. And with a little patience you will likely be rewarded with an acceptable shot on a large animal with a high likelihood of a one shot kill.

Last edited by Jonesee; 11-28-2012 at 19:33..
Jonesee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 19:42   #33
ithaca_deerslayer
Senior Member
 
ithaca_deerslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 18,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesee View Post
I agree with you if you are rabbit or bird hunting. But firing away at a jumped deer isn't prudent.

If you hunt long enough, and scout enough you learn where to set up so they come to you. And with a little patience you will likely be rewarded with an acceptable shot on a large animal with a high likelihood of a one shot kill.
Yeah, that's a good point. Jump shooting increases the chances of a wounded deer. My brothers, all older than me, have been doing it for many years.

I can't really say if it is ethical or not. It isn't my method. I prefer to sit and wait.
ithaca_deerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 20:31   #34
Jonesee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,242
Since 1967 I have lost exactly 1 deer. I have only needed to pull the trigger more than once on one deer. It was the same deer... I am gong to tell you that was in 1990-1992 or thereabouts. Four experienced hunters searched for sign to track that deer until it was long after dark. No blood, Nothing. It was found dead by a relative about a week later and the very impressive rack is in the house of a friend of mine. Losing that deer still bothers me.

My 3 grown sons have a better record than me. None of them have ever pulled the trigger more than once. And they all started deer hunting at 11-12 years old.

I don't walk and jump deer to get a shot. I hunt property that is either family farm or land I have been on for years, or with friends that know the property. No reason to chase the deer. If you look hard enough and long enough during the summer, you will know where they are when deer season opens.

Just the way I was raised and the way I raised my sons.

Someone else mentioned waiting after the shot. You should always do that. Make your shot, then watch which direction it goes and listen hard. You will often hear it fall or lay down. Sit there quietly and in 20 minutes it will be dead.

I don't seriously deer hunt anymore. I do it to be with my sons, my elderly father, father-in-law and friends. I make sure they get the spots I think will produce. I will set up somewhere and if something worth killing walks by, I will take the shot. Other than that I just relax and hope the best for others. Pheasant hunting has been my passion for 25 years.

Last edited by Jonesee; 11-28-2012 at 20:43..
Jonesee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 20:50   #35
ithaca_deerslayer
Senior Member
 
ithaca_deerslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 18,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesee View Post
. Sit there quietly and in 20 minutes it will be dead.
Depends on where it was shot.

If it ain't dead in 20 minutes, then what?

I shot a deer with an arrow too far back. Waited half an hour, tracked slow for two hours. Found the deer laying 100 yards from my tree stand. Still breathing, head up, alert. I put another arrow through both lungs, and the deer was dead in a minute.

The first shot was ideal setup, maybe 30 yards, standing broadside, I just sent the arrow too far back on the deer from my aim point.

Most deer I double lung with that first shot, only need one shot. Heck, I do most my hunting with either a single shot pistol or single shot slug gun.

Wish I could say I've gotten every deer with one shot, and they dropped dead right there. That's the ideal I strive for. But that buck took two arrows in him from me, 2.5 hours apart.

This deer in my OP story is the only one I've ever tried to head shoot, and it wasn't even my wounded deer. Was just surprised it didn't magically hit the off switch.

Last edited by ithaca_deerslayer; 11-28-2012 at 20:51..
ithaca_deerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 20:58   #36
Jonesee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,242
A broadhead will bleed them out. If it was down and just not dead, I would back off, sit down and let it die. There isn't any reason to rush up on it and jump it up once it has laid down to die.

If it looked like it was suffering, I may stick another arrow in it though.


Years ago my middle son shot a deer. We met at the truck, dropped the guns off and then went into the pines to find it. It was laying just about where he thought. As we walked up we assumed it was dead. It started to jump so we backed off. It went about 10 yards and laid down again but didn't die. So I left him there in case it took off and walked all the way out to the truck to get a gun. Walked all the way back in with the gun, just to find out it had died while I was walking. I guess the moral is, they will die if you just leave them alone and let them.

Last edited by Jonesee; 11-28-2012 at 21:16..
Jonesee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 09:12   #37
Big Bird
NRA Life Member
 
Big Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesee View Post
I agree with you if you are rabbit or bird hunting. But firing away at a jumped deer isn't prudent.

If you hunt long enough, and scout enough you learn where to set up so they come to you. And with a little patience you will likely be rewarded with an acceptable shot on a large animal with a high likelihood of a one shot kill.

It depends. I hunted in Europe a good deal and shooting at large driven game is extremely ingrained in their hunting experience.

Likewise, if you hunt deer in many parts of the south deer drives with dogs are par for the course and you are expected to make shots on running game.

Not everyone shoots deer or large game out of a deer stand.


Pay attention around :50 into the video.

Just because you hunt that way doesn't mean its the only way things are done.
__________________
Big Bird,

“Est Nulla Via Invia Virute”
Big Bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 05:51   #38
noway
Senior Member
 
noway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Davie "Cowboy" , FL
Posts: 19,409
Shooting at a running deer is hard and gits harder as the distance increased. The video that was posted of the boars running, how many where missed? What was the distance? What's the experience of that hunter?

In deer drives down here, it's slightly better since you have about 3+ guns ( shotgun, rifles,etc....) Pointed at that deer, but to be honest only 1 or 2 hunts actually connects with the animal from my experience and being on a few myself.


This reminds of the post that WalterGA was on where a guy was claiming headshots at running deer @ 600yards. Funny as hell

For me I want my animal stationary and look down or away. Just call me simple.
noway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 05:59   #39
Tvov
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: CT,USA
Posts: 4,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
It depends. I hunted in Europe a good deal and shooting at large driven game is extremely ingrained in their hunting experience.
That is not "my style" of hunting, but that is some dam impressive shooting.
__________________
Just because it is a dumb, easily resolved issue, doesn't mean you should stop doing it. - sorry I forget which GT'er posted this...

I'm not angry, I'm just loud. - Friend's son.
Tvov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 16:15   #40
Big Bird
NRA Life Member
 
Big Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by noway View Post
Shooting at a running deer is hard and gits harder as the distance increased. The video that was posted of the boars running, how many where missed? What was the distance? What's the experience of that hunter?

In deer drives down here, it's slightly better since you have about 3+ guns ( shotgun, rifles,etc....) Pointed at that deer, but to be honest only 1 or 2 hunts actually connects with the animal from my experience and being on a few myself.


This reminds of the post that WalterGA was on where a guy was claiming headshots at running deer @ 600yards. Funny as hell

For me I want my animal stationary and look down or away. Just call me simple.
Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

You live in Germany and want a hunting license you have to pass a shooting test. You are expected to hit a running boar target 3 out of 5 times in the kill zone at 50 meters. You will also have to hit a Roe deer target offhand at 100 meters and hit a certain number of clay targets shot on the skeet range under international rules (low gun).

Shooting running game is a skillset that is expected of even a novice hunter in Europe.

They also have a target shooting competition centered around moving game targets. So again--its part of their culture and heritage.

Personally, I feel the hunters in this nation have become too anal when it comes to shooting game. We all want guns that are benchrest accurate and we want animals that stand still with only a classic heart lung shot being the right answer. This attitude displays a very narrow view of game anatomy and reflects a limited skillset that shows how tied we are to shooting off the bench. Lets face it...if I asked the average hunter to get into a sitting position and get off an aimed shot at 200 yard in under 10 seconds most would look at me like I have horns growing out of my head.

We mostly no longer have hunters with an understanding of practical accuracy or improvised shots under field conditions.
If I asked you if you could use a gun with a 2.5 MOA degree of accuracy to reliably kill deer at 300 yards most people would scoff. Yet such a gun is EASILY capable of such as task...if the hunter can hold it that well...

European hunters are more proficient and more skilled on average. People here have a hard time believing it can be done because they don't see it being done by anyone. But I promise...its done all the time by in other venues by hunters with experience all across the world. There was a time it was common practice here as well... Hitting a moving target inside of 25 yards is easier than you think even with a bow if you practice...
__________________
Big Bird,

“Est Nulla Via Invia Virute”

Last edited by Big Bird; 11-30-2012 at 16:24..
Big Bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 16:50   #41
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

You live in Germany and want a hunting license you have to pass a shooting test. You are expected to hit a running boar target 3 out of 5 times in the kill zone at 50 meters. You will also have to hit a Roe deer target offhand at 100 meters and hit a certain number of clay targets shot on the skeet range under international rules (low gun).

Shooting running game is a skillset that is expected of even a novice hunter in Europe.

They also have a target shooting competition centered around moving game targets. So again--its part of their culture and heritage.

Personally, I feel the hunters in this nation have become too anal when it comes to shooting game. We all want guns that are benchrest accurate and we want animals that stand still with only a classic heart lung shot being the right answer. This attitude displays a very narrow view of game anatomy and reflects a limited skillset that shows how tied we are to shooting off the bench. Lets face it...if I asked the average hunter to get into a sitting position and get off an aimed shot at 200 yard in under 10 seconds most would look at me like I have horns growing out of my head.

We mostly no longer have hunters with an understanding of practical accuracy or improvised shots under field conditions.
If I asked you if you could use a gun with a 2.5 MOA degree of accuracy to reliably kill deer at 300 yards most people would scoff. Yet such a gun is EASILY capable of such as task...if the hunter can hold it that well...

European hunters are more proficient and more skilled on average. People here have a hard time believing it can be done because they don't see it being done by anyone. But I promise...its done all the time by in other venues by hunters with experience all across the world. There was a time it was common practice here as well... Hitting a moving target inside of 25 yards is easier than you think even with a bow if you practice...

Very well said all the way through.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 19:30   #42
auto-5
Senior Member
 
auto-5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

You live in Germany and want a hunting license you have to pass a shooting test. You are expected to hit a running boar target 3 out of 5 times in the kill zone at 50 meters. You will also have to hit a Roe deer target offhand at 100 meters and hit a certain number of clay targets shot on the skeet range under international rules (low gun).

Shooting running game is a skillset that is expected of even a novice hunter in Europe.

They also have a target shooting competition centered around moving game targets. So again--its part of their culture and heritage.

Personally, I feel the hunters in this nation have become too anal when it comes to shooting game. We all want guns that are benchrest accurate and we want animals that stand still with only a classic heart lung shot being the right answer. This attitude displays a very narrow view of game anatomy and reflects a limited skillset that shows how tied we are to shooting off the bench. Lets face it...if I asked the average hunter to get into a sitting position and get off an aimed shot at 200 yard in under 10 seconds most would look at me like I have horns growing out of my head.

We mostly no longer have hunters with an understanding of practical accuracy or improvised shots under field conditions.
If I asked you if you could use a gun with a 2.5 MOA degree of accuracy to reliably kill deer at 300 yards most people would scoff. Yet such a gun is EASILY capable of such as task...if the hunter can hold it that well...

European hunters are more proficient and more skilled on average. People here have a hard time believing it can be done because they don't see it being done by anyone. But I promise...its done all the time by in other venues by hunters with experience all across the world. There was a time it was common practice here as well... Hitting a moving target inside of 25 yards is easier than you think even with a bow if you practice...
I kind of agree with this minus the arrogant euro crap. think of the first shot like a bird hunter would. I want to knock it out of the air. If afterwords I have to ring it's neck thats fine.

Deer are the same way. If it is standing still great take that heart shot but if it is moving hit that paper plate sized target and if you have too finish him off with a followup shot.
auto-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 19:55   #43
Big Bird
NRA Life Member
 
Big Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by auto-5 View Post
I kind of agree with this minus the arrogant euro crap. think of the first shot like a bird hunter would. I want to knock it out of the air. If afterwords I have to ring it's neck thats fine.

Deer are the same way. If it is standing still great take that heart shot but if it is moving hit that paper plate sized target and if you have too finish him off with a followup shot.
My statements about european hunters isn't intended to be arrogant. Its a simple observation after having hunted around the world for more than 30 years on three continents. Lets face it...not everyone in Europe can afford a hunting license let alone work through the year long hunter education program nor have the persistence to work on their shooting skills to the point that they could pass the shooting exam. I'm by no means suggesting that's the right path for the US to follow nor am I suggesting its the only way to do things. Again, its a simple observation on the proficiency of the average hunter there and here.

Another example--in Germany you have to pass a practical field exam. A local Forster takes you out into the field to judge game animals. You come across a female or male Roe deer or wild boar etc. He will ask you to estimate the animals age. You better be able to tell him its a mature animal, an immature animal, and about how old within a year or so... If the animal is a trophey what class trophey--1A. IIA, IIIA? Cull? All within a few seconds...
You only get that good field judging game by studying a lot of animals... How many american hunters can look at a whitetail doe and tell you how old she is?

As I said, shooting moving targets isn't as hard as most think if you practice...even with a bow..


__________________
Big Bird,

“Est Nulla Via Invia Virute”

Last edited by Big Bird; 11-30-2012 at 20:11..
Big Bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 20:20   #44
auto-5
Senior Member
 
auto-5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 269
Not many but judging does by size to determine age would be pretty inaccurate here in the US. That 2 year old Alabama white tail doe ain't going to be the same size as a 2 year old Kansas white tail doe.

But we are getting off the point. If you will recall I was agreeing with you.
auto-5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 06:33   #45
Big Bird
NRA Life Member
 
Big Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by auto-5 View Post
Not many but judging does by size to determine age would be pretty inaccurate here in the US. That 2 year old Alabama white tail doe ain't going to be the same size as a 2 year old Kansas white tail doe.

But we are getting off the point. If you will recall I was agreeing with you.
Size is only part of the deal. You look at physical characteristics such as ear shape and size, nose length and shape, neck thickness, shape of the abdomen. There are distinct traits that one should know as animals develop and age that will betray the age of the animal.

In any case, shooting large running game is done quite well in many places by very proficient hunters. If you read some old Jack O Connor books or Howard Hill books you will understand what they mean when the refer to someone as an exceptionally fine "game shot"... Meaning someone who knows how to take animals cleanly under all kinds of conditions. People in this country were very proficient at shooting running game at one time. I remember my father talking about all the deer drives he participated in back in the 50's and 60's in upstate New York.
__________________
Big Bird,

“Est Nulla Via Invia Virute”
Big Bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 06:36   #46
Jonesee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,242
You don't age deer on the hoof by size.

You look at the head, neck and body structure. The easiest way to explain it is the older the deer gets the less sharp angles on it. Its nose, back, belly and rump fill out with age. (some may say it is the same way with wives, but I won't say that)

Bucks are easier for me to age than does, but I've never hunted where I had to age does before pulling the trigger.

I know of hunting leases that fine you a a substantial amount of money if you kill a young buck.

Damn, big bird answered 10 seconds ahead of me LOL...

Last edited by Jonesee; 12-01-2012 at 06:36..
Jonesee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 07:55   #47
ithaca_deerslayer
Senior Member
 
ithaca_deerslayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Posts: 18,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
I remember my father talking about all the deer drives he participated in back in the 50's and 60's in upstate New York.
I'm sure those still go on. Not only in NY, but in many states, I bet.

Opening day and every hunter thinks he or she has a chance of seeing the big buck by sitting and waiting for him to come by.

People who hunt their own land or have done a lot of observing and scouting before the season think they know the deer habits, and where to go sit and find the deer coming through.

But after opening day, things start to change a lot. Many of the bucks have been shot. Hunters have trekked across lands, screwing up other hunter's plans. Deer have been on the run and change up their habits.

The sitting hunters no longer see the deer they thought they would. The deer aren't showing up in the same places. Lots of hunters have back-up plans and go into new locations the deer may have moved to. Hunters compete with each other as they seek out better spots, and the deer get pushed more.

Eventually the hunters not seeing deer, not seeing bucks, come up with plans to flush those deer from their hiding spots. Thus drives are organised and jump shooting, and shooting running deer from drives, becomes the method.

Doesn't what I describe here happen in every state?

Last edited by ithaca_deerslayer; 12-01-2012 at 07:57..
ithaca_deerslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 08:53   #48
Jonesee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer View Post
I'm sure those still go on. Not only in NY, but in many states, I bet.

Opening day and every hunter thinks he or she has a chance of seeing the big buck by sitting and waiting for him to come by.

People who hunt their own land or have done a lot of observing and scouting before the season think they know the deer habits, and where to go sit and find the deer coming through.

But after opening day, things start to change a lot. Many of the bucks have been shot. Hunters have trekked across lands, screwing up other hunter's plans. Deer have been on the run and change up their habits.

The sitting hunters no longer see the deer they thought they would. The deer aren't showing up in the same places. Lots of hunters have back-up plans and go into new locations the deer may have moved to. Hunters compete with each other as they seek out better spots, and the deer get pushed more.

Eventually the hunters not seeing deer, not seeing bucks, come up with plans to flush those deer from their hiding spots. Thus drives are organised and jump shooting, and shooting running deer from drives, becomes the method.

Doesn't what I describe here happen in every state?

The reason you stop seeing deer after the first couple of days in the season is because the deer have left the area. Deer will migrate to areas that have less hunting pressure.

Sit tight, don't disturb the area or their habits and they will leave the areas with the most hunting and move to areas they feel safer.

Our rule is we won't hunt an area or stand after the hunter has been busted by a deer. If a doe blows, you've been busted. Or if you have historically seen deer and now you don't, that area gets a break from hunting to let it settle down.

and BTW, is that a Percheron on your avatar?

Last edited by Jonesee; 12-01-2012 at 09:03..
Jonesee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 14:37   #49
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird
Like I said, different strokes for different folks.

You live in Germany and want a hunting license you have to pass a shooting test. You are expected to hit a running boar target 3 out of 5 times in the kill zone at 50 meters. You will also have to hit a Roe deer target offhand at 100 meters and hit a certain number of clay targets shot on the skeet range under international rules (low gun).

Shooting running game is a skillset that is expected of even a novice hunter in Europe.

They also have a target shooting competition centered around moving game targets. So again--its part of their culture and heritage.

Personally, I feel the hunters in this nation have become too anal when it comes to shooting game. We all want guns that are benchrest accurate and we want animals that stand still with only a classic heart lung shot being the right answer. This attitude displays a very narrow view of game anatomy and reflects a limited skillset that shows how tied we are to shooting off the bench. Lets face it...if I asked the average hunter to get into a sitting position and get off an aimed shot at 200 yard in under 10 seconds most would look at me like I have horns growing out of my head.

We mostly no longer have hunters with an understanding of practical accuracy or improvised shots under field conditions.
If I asked you if you could use a gun with a 2.5 MOA degree of accuracy to reliably kill deer at 300 yards most people would scoff. Yet such a gun is EASILY capable of such as task...if the hunter can hold it that well...

European hunters are more proficient and more skilled on average. People here have a hard time believing it can be done because they don't see it being done by anyone. But I promise...its done all the time by in other venues by hunters with experience all across the world. There was a time it was common practice here as well... Hitting a moving target inside of 25 yards is easier than you think even with a bow if you practice...



I totally agree with all this, and wish it was a requirment in the uSA this way before getting a license. It would help weed out the slob hunters, and help educate the ones that are serious !


Good word !


Out here you take a tire, and a carboard cut out in it with a lung size shape in the center, and roll it down a bumpy canyon slope with it moving bouncing, hopping, so forth and see how well you can shoot the hand gun, scoped and non- scoped rifle etc...

I have been shooting at and hittiong running game for ever and a day. Both with fire arms and recurve bow.

Good word here BB !

Thanks.



Canyonman
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 14:45   #50
CanyonMan
In The Saddle
 
CanyonMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
Size is only part of the deal. You look at physical characteristics such as ear shape and size, nose length and shape, neck thickness, shape of the abdomen. There are distinct traits that one should know as animals develop and age that will betray the age of the animal.

In any case, shooting large running game is done quite well in many places by very proficient hunters. If you read some old Jack O Connor books or Howard Hill books you will understand what they mean when the refer to someone as an exceptionally fine "game shot"... Meaning someone who knows how to take animals cleanly under all kinds of conditions. People in this country were very proficient at shooting running game at one time. I remember my father talking about all the deer drives he participated in back in the 50's and 60's in upstate New York.


Right on once again... Someone on here got on me one time for telling that I can judge deer age on the hoof. Just like we can tell one steer/cow from another out here even in large herds... It is what ya grow up doing, and there are things to observe, AND I have spent most all my life out side 'doing it' for thousands of hours, dang, 'more than that i reckon over a life time'.

I hit 'running quail' with a recurve bow, and mostly only those who see it believe me, but I do. It took years of 'very disciplined practice' on moving targets like in the bow video you showed (thank for that btw).

I am not real good at on the wing shots, but not at all bad either. Better at running , or moving shots on the ground, but still it is doable for the person who will "discipline" them selves, and "stay with it."


Another good word BB. Man your hittin 'em good today amigo ! ha.




Stay Safe !









CanyonMan
__________________
You boy's saddled this bronc, now let's see if you can ride it.

http://www.prorodeo.com/

Jesus said: You who are without sin cast the first stone.. John 8: 7

Last edited by CanyonMan; 12-02-2012 at 14:47..
CanyonMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:48.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 801
188 Members
613 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42