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Old 11-25-2012, 19:50   #351
Animal Mother
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
No, I believe scientists are aware of these effects, I also believe some of your responses on this topic point to you being unaware of the effects of such testing. Well, until it was pointed out to you.
Please, do point out these responses which seem, to you, to demonstrate a lack of knowledge or awareness on my part.

From my perspective, it seems I'm willing to back any claim I make with references to both the scientific literature and source data while you appear to depend entirely on obscure, non-scientific works and quickly hopscotch on to other topics or disappear when challenged to defend your position. Then again, perhaps that's the debate process that is taught at Liberty Online U in place of actual science and facts.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:15   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
Please, do point out these responses which seem, to you, to demonstrate a lack of knowledge or awareness on my part. ...
Okay, from now on I will, but just remember, you asked for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
...From my perspective, it seems I'm willing to back any claim I make with references to both the scientific literature and source data while you appear to depend entirely on obscure, non-scientific works and quickly hopscotch on to other topics or disappear when challenged to defend your position. ...
Generally, we both back our claims, however, you refuse to accept anything that disagrees with your position. Your typically one to either attack the researcher in an ad hominem tone, or dismiss the data based on it coming from a creationist or creationist backed website.

In fact, from my perspective, most often when you demand references to back claims made by Christians or Creationists, you will also insist that the reference not come from a creationists' website, but only from a "peer reviewed source" of your personal liking.

When you demand such a key-holed response, I will oft times choose to ignore such a foolish, non-scientific solicitation.

ETA:
Also, when I post information or an assertion concerning perfectly basic data related to the discussion, such as my posting about how the Earth's magnetic field has been declining, "I'm not going to google" for an evo whom hasn't reached even a rudimentary benchmark of knowledge on the topic.
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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
... Then again, perhaps that's the debate process that is taught at Liberty Online U in place of actual science and facts.
Don't blame Liberty, I wasn't able to finish.
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Last edited by Peace Warrior; 11-26-2012 at 05:22..
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:31   #353
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Randy, just got back from the holiday visit with family and have been reading this thread to catch up. It has been quite entertaining to see how you've been intellectually dominating junior here.

WB Geko,

As you have time, you've got some points to ponder.

Oh yeah, I finally just had put the attention seeking 7 year old, known as steveksux, on ignore. His repeated demands (i.e., trolling) for cites and references for even the most rudimentary of all data points gets a bit too time consuming to deal with when so many other post are more intellectually appealing. He needs to educate himself a tad first, and then jump back in to the discussion.
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:59   #354
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Okay, from now on I will, but just remember, you asked for it.
You'll understand if I don't hold my breath, given your past performance or lack thereof.
Quote:
Generally, we both back our claims,
Simply false. You declare things to be so and demand that everyone concur, feigning offense when that doesn't happen.
Quote:
however, you refuse to accept anything that disagrees with your position. Your typically one to either attack the researcher in an ad hominem tone, or dismiss the data based on it coming from a creationist or creationist backed website.
I'm happy to accept anything supported by data, whether or not it agrees with my position. The problem with your claims is that there is no such supporting data. You base your position on spurious claims, frequently ones which have long been shown to be untrue.
Quote:
In fact, from my perspective, most often when you demand references to back claims made by Christians or Creationists, you will also insist that the reference not come from a creationists' website, but only from a "peer reviewed source" of your personal liking.
My liking has nothing to do with it, the complete absence of any data or evidence to support the creationist position is why it is rejected. You're welcome to produce such evidence, but like all other creationist proponent you've failed to do so. Instead you choose to make absurd declarations like stars can't form and then ignore all evidence to the contrary.
Quote:
hen you demand such a key-holed response, I will oft times choose to ignore such a foolish, non-scientific solicitation.
I think what you mean to say is that you avoid them because you are utterly incapable of providing the requested data and evidence, since it doesn't exist.
Quote:

ETA:
Also, when I post information or an assertion concerning perfectly basic data related to the discussion, such as my posting about how the Earth's magnetic field has been declining, "I'm not going to google" for an evo whom hasn't reached even a rudimentary benchmark of knowledge on the topic.
If you're unwilling to support your claims when asked to do so, you shouldn't be upset when those claims are rightfully discarded as unfounded.
Quote:
Don't blame Liberty, I wasn't able to finish.
Did someone slip up and accidentally teach some real science, leading you to become offended and flee?
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:18   #355
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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
...Instead you choose to make absurd declarations like stars can't form and then ignore all evidence to the contrary. ...
I've never ignored empirical scientific data about stars forming. I've yet to receive any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
... I think what you mean to say is that you avoid them because you are utterly incapable of providing the requested data and evidence, since it doesn't exist. If you're unwilling to support your claims when asked to do so, you shouldn't be upset when those claims are rightfully discarded as unfounded....
The facts concerning the Earth's declining magnetic field have been around, IIRC, for over 100 years. Most creationists and ALL intelligent evos don't require citations for such well known data.

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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
... Did someone slip up and accidentally teach some real science, leading you to become offended and flee?
No, my superintendent registered me as an administrator of a certain private High School, when I left the private school over a biblical issue, the school's superintendent advised me their financial assistance would not be available, so I never pursued it thereafter.

Anyway, I would hope that Liberty keeps out the quack professors that teach evolutionary theory(ies) as real Science.
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"Nothing we're gonna do is going to fundamentally alter or eliminate the possibility of another mass shooting or guarantee that [our gun ban legislation] will bring gun deaths down..." - VPOTUS Joe Biden
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Last edited by Peace Warrior; 11-26-2012 at 07:22..
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:02   #356
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
I've never ignored empirical scientific data about stars forming.
Yes, you have.
Quote:
I've yet to receive any.
Yes, you have. Here, let's try it again. Star Formation in the rho Ophiuchi Molecular Cloud Enjoy.
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The facts concerning the Earth's declining magnetic field have been around, IIRC, for over 100 years. Most creationists and ALL intelligent evos don't require citations for such well known data.
If it is such well known data, providing references when asked should be a simple matter. Yet you appear incapable of doing so. Could it be because the references don't support your claims?

For example: And globally the magnetic field has weakened 10% since the 19th century. When this was mentioned by researchers at a recent meeting of the American Geophysical Union, many newspapers carried the story. A typical headline: "Is Earth's magnetic field collapsing?"
Probably not.
As remarkable as these changes sound, "they're mild compared to what Earth's magnetic field has done in the past," says University of California professor Gary Glatzmaier.
Sometimes the field completely flips. The north and the south poles swap places. Such reversals, recorded in the magnetism of ancient rocks, are unpredictable. They come at irregular intervals averaging about 300,000 years; the last one was 780,000 years ago. Are we overdue for another? No one knows.

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No, my superintendent registered me as an administrator of a certain private High School, when I left the private school over a biblical issue,
Or, to put it another way, became offended and fled... My psychic powers are again proven accurate.
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Anyway, I would hope that Liberty keeps out the quack professors that teach evolutionary theory(ies) as real Science.
I'm sure they allow only those who teach foul humors as the cause of illness and invoke demons rather than medicine in healing.
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Last edited by Animal Mother; 11-26-2012 at 08:09..
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:23   #357
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
His repeated demands (i.e., trolling) for cites and references...
Oh, that's one for the books right there. Demanding cites and references equates to trolling now? You may as well add me to that list too and save us both a lot of grief.
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Old 11-26-2012, 17:47   #358
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Oh yeah, I finally just had put the attention seeking 7 year old, known as steveksux, on ignore. His repeated demands (i.e., trolling) for cites and references for even the most rudimentary of all data points gets a bit too time consuming to deal with when so many other post are more intellectually appealing. He needs to educate himself a tad first, and then jump back in to the discussion.
You know what an ad hom is, right? If not, I've provided a link; it's what you're attempting to do here.

You know what dodging is, right? If not, I've provided a link; it's what you're attempting to do with Randy's questions.

The way to get people to stop requesting cites for your assertions is to provide cites for your assertions.
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Old 11-26-2012, 18:00   #359
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Generally, we both back our claims, however, you refuse to accept anything that disagrees with your position. Your typically one to either attack the researcher in an ad hominem tone, or dismiss the data based on it coming from a creationist or creationist backed website.

In fact, from my perspective, most often when you demand references to back claims made by Christians or Creationists, you will also insist that the reference not come from a creationists' website, but only from a "peer reviewed source" of your personal liking.
The reason that stipulation is made is because creationists are notorious for quote mining and outright lying about what legitimate authorities in the field actually say. And when that's pointed out and examples are given... the creationists wait a day and then repeat the quote mining and lying as if it had never been pointed out for what it is.

Edited to add: in any case, I don't think there's been any actual creationist research; everything I've seen is generally "x isn't possible because appeal to ignorance, therefore God/Intelligent Design."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
When you demand such a key-holed response, I will oft times choose to ignore such a foolish, non-scientific solicitation.

ETA:
Also, when I post information or an assertion concerning perfectly basic data related to the discussion, such as my posting about how the Earth's magnetic field has been declining, "I'm not going to google" for an evo whom hasn't reached even a rudimentary benchmark of knowledge on the topic.
If you make an assertion, are called on it, and don't support it, that's called not supporting your assertion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Don't blame Liberty, I wasn't able to finish.
I don't think anyone is blaming Liberty for your refusal to support your assertions.

Last edited by ksg0245; 11-26-2012 at 18:09..
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Old 11-26-2012, 21:33   #360
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
To the cowards from the other thread... here it is...


THE RULE: Only ONE item, topic, subject and or theme at a time please.

Thanks.
Well, then, perhaps YOU should stop being such a coward and finish the topic YOU started: Post the article from the abstract YOU linked to. Seeing as how the title you linked to indicates the article does not even discuss what you claim it proves, you need to post the article simply to show everyone exactly where it says what you claim it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
WB Geko,

As you have time, you've got some points to ponder.

Oh yeah, I finally just had put the attention seeking 7 year old, known as steveksux, on ignore. His repeated demands (i.e., trolling) for cites and references for even the most rudimentary of all data points
The abstract you DID post indicates you either misunderstood or are lying about what the actual article says, so NOBODY here is willing to take your word for what the article says without posting the actual article.
Quote:
gets a bit too time consuming to deal with
Posting a link to the article you claim you have access to to show it actually says what you say id does is "too time consuming"? That's ridiculous. I suppose you storm off in a huff while playing cards when the other players expect to see your cards after you claim to have won the hand also?

If that's your position, I think we can rule out misunderstanding since you're now actively covering up, and go straight to "lying about what the article says" in that case.

Quote:
and when so many other post are more intellectually appealing.
I can certainly see how being exposed so elegantly, and by your own hand no less, as a rube and it turns out, a liar (based on this current attempt to hide from the subject) would indeed be somewhat less than intellectually appealing to the one exposed as a rube and a liar.

Quote:
He needs to educate himself a tad first, and then jump back in to the discussion.
The guy that doesn't understand the title of the abstract he posts thinks OTHERS need to educate themselves... That's downright amusing.

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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Oh, that's one for the books right there. Demanding cites and references equates to trolling now? You may as well add me to that list too and save us both a lot of grief.
We're going to need an industrial strength irony meter I think. PW seems to be the only troll here, don't you agree?

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Originally Posted by ksg0245 View Post
You know what an ad hom is, right? If not, I've provided a link; it's what you're attempting to do here.

You know what dodging is, right? If not, I've provided a link; it's what you're attempting to do with Randy's questions.

The way to get people to stop requesting cites for your assertions is to provide cites for your assertions.
Most often that's PW's problem. In this case, its actually worse than that, its not the lack of cites for his assertions that's the problem in this particular case. The abstract PW DID post to support his claim actually destroys his claim indirectly, even though the abstract doesn't actually directly address what PW claims it proves.

For once, PW has actually provided a cite, with which PW handily shot himself in the foot, he's now refusing to let anyone see his foot and claiming the photo of his shoe that he posted does not actually contain a smoking hole in it, because PW is the only one in the room professional enough to handle a gun.

I think we have uncovered a Pee Wee Herman aficionado, or maybe an impersonator?

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 11-27-2012 at 00:04..
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:03   #361
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Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
Well, then, perhaps YOU should stop being such a coward and finish the topic YOU started: Post the article from the abstract YOU linked to. Seeing as how the title you linked to indicates the article does not even discuss what you claim it proves, you need to post the article simply to show everyone exactly where it says what you claim it does.

The abstract you DID post indicates you either misunderstood or are lying about what the actual article says, so NOBODY here is willing to take your word for what the article says without posting the actual article. Posting a link to the article you claim you have access to to show it actually says what you say id does is "too time consuming"? That's ridiculous. I suppose you storm off in a huff while playing cards when the other players expect to see your cards after you claim to have won the hand also?

If that's your position, I think we can rule out misunderstanding since you're now actively covering up, and go straight to "lying about what the article says" in that case.

I can certainly see how being exposed so elegantly, and by your own hand no less, as a rube and it turns out, a liar (based on this current attempt to hide from the subject) would indeed be somewhat less than intellectually appealing to the one exposed as a rube and a liar.

The guy that doesn't understand the title of the abstract he posts thinks OTHERS need to educate themselves... That's downright amusing.

We're going to need an industrial strength irony meter I think. PW seems to be the only troll here, don't you agree?

Most often that's PW's problem. In this case, its actually worse than that, its not the lack of cites for his assertions that's the problem in this particular case. The abstract PW DID post to support his claim actually destroys his claim indirectly, even though the abstract doesn't actually directly address what PW claims it proves.

For once, PW has actually provided a cite, with which PW handily shot himself in the foot, he's now refusing to let anyone see his foot and claiming the photo of his shoe that he posted does not actually contain a smoking hole in it, because PW is the only one in the room professional enough to handle a gun.

I think we have uncovered a Pee Wee Herman aficionado, or maybe an impersonator?

Randy
I don't think "industrial strength" will get the job done. We need to call NASA in on this one.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:26   #362
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
Oh, that's one for the books right there. Demanding cites and references equates to trolling now? ...
No, not at all, in fact, demanding a reference or citation does not equate to trolling; however, slicing and dicing a person's post solely to remove the actual context, and then trying to create a new outlandish context in order to denigrate a position you otherwise have no argument against is very telling.

Here is my quote, in full, but now with its original context in bold highlight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
WB Geko,

As you have time, you've got some points to ponder.

Oh yeah, I finally just had put the attention seeking 7 year old, known as steveksux, on ignore.
His repeated demands (i.e., trolling) for cites and references for even the most rudimentary of all data points gets a bit too time consuming to deal with when so many other post are more intellectually appealing. He needs to educate himself a tad first, and then jump back in to the discussion.
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Originally Posted by Geko45 View Post
...You may as well add me to that list too and save us both a lot of grief.
You just want want out of having to respond to the inquiries made to you.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:42   #363
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Yes, you have.
Yes, you have. Here, let's try it again. Star Formation in the rho Ophiuchi Molecular Cloud Enjoy. ...
Weren't they using both the millimeter and sub-millimeter continuum "viewing" instruments?

If so, they are making conclusions based on interpreting data from non-visible light waves that are coming from a distance, if their measurements are correct, of over 400 light years away.

Plus 400 light years?!? Hey, they and you are more than welcome to BELIEVE stars are forming in that area of the universe, but there is NO empirical scientific data to under gird y'alls faith in this belief.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:24   #364
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God did not create man...man created God.

Science explains everything.

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Old 11-27-2012, 16:36   #365
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Weren't they using both the millimeter and sub-millimeter continuum "viewing" instruments?

If so, they are making conclusions based on interpreting data from non-visible light waves that are coming from a distance, if their measurements are correct, of over 400 light years away.

Plus 400 light years?!? Hey, they and you are more than welcome to BELIEVE stars are forming in that area of the universe, but there is NO empirical scientific data to under gird y'alls faith in this belief.
So much for "I've never ignored empirical scientific data about stars forming."
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Old 11-27-2012, 20:29   #366
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So much for "I've never ignored empirical scientific data about stars forming."
Any scientific equipment not listed in the Bible doesn't work.

Any equipment that detects anything PW can't explain is faulty.

Any article who's title puts the lie to PW's claim can't be posted.

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Old 11-27-2012, 21:52   #367
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No, not at all, in fact, demanding a reference or citation does not equate to trolling; however, slicing and dicing a person's post solely to remove the actual context, and then trying to create a new outlandish context in order to denigrate a position you otherwise have no argument against is very telling.

Here is my quote, in full, but now with its original context in bold highlight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
WB Geko,

As you have time, you've got some points to ponder.

Oh yeah, I finally just had put the attention seeking 7 year old, known as steveksux, on ignore. His repeated demands (i.e., trolling) for cites and references for even the most rudimentary of all data points gets a bit too time consuming to deal with when so many other post are more intellectually appealing. He needs to educate himself a tad first, and then jump back in to the discussion.
You just want want out of having to respond to the inquiries made to you.
The problem with "the most rudimentary of all data points" is that they appear to be rudimentary only to creationists; people actually familiar with the field haven't come across them anywhere other than from creationists, who, it's already been pointed out, haven't done any actual research, and are notorious for repeatedly quote mining legitimate sources and outright lying about facts, undeterred even after it's pointed out.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:33   #368
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So much for "I've never ignored empirical scientific data about stars forming."
Do you know or understand ANYTHING about either the abilities and or limits of data, when it comes specifically from millimeter and or sub-millimeter continuum "viewing" instruments?

You invited me to point these things out to you,...

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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
Please, do point out these responses which seem, to you, to demonstrate a lack of knowledge or awareness on my part. ...
I agreed, and here we are.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:35   #369
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God did not create man...man created God.

Science explains everything.
Evolutionary theory is the opiate of the atheists.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:39   #370
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Evolutionary theory is the opiate of the atheists.
That doesn't even make sense as an insult.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:56   #371
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45
Oh, that's one for the books right there. Demanding cites and references equates to trolling now? ...
No, not at all, in fact, demanding a reference or citation does not equate to trolling; however, slicing and dicing a person's post solely to remove the actual context, and then trying to create a new outlandish context in order to denigrate a position you otherwise have no argument against is very telling.

Here is my quote, in full, but now with its original context in bold highlight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Warrior
WB Geko,

As you have time, you've got some points to ponder.

Oh yeah, I finally just had put the attention seeking 7 year old, known as steveksux, on ignore. His repeated demands (i.e., trolling) for cites and references for even the most rudimentary of all data points gets a bit too time consuming to deal with when so many other post are more intellectually appealing. He needs to educate himself a tad first, and then jump back in to the discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geko45
...You may as well add me to that list too and save us both a lot of grief.
You just want want out of having to respond to the inquiries made to you.
Funny you should mention that after refusing multiple requests for an article you refer to but have never produced.



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Old 11-28-2012, 13:16   #372
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Do you know or understand ANYTHING about either the abilities and or limits of data, when it comes specifically from millimeter and or sub-millimeter continuum "viewing" instruments?
Apparently not, please do educate me.
Quote:
You invited me to point these things out to you,...
Rather than implying there's something I don't know, why don't you actually make your point and explicitly state what it is you think I'm missing.
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Old 11-28-2012, 17:16   #373
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Evolutionary theory is the opiate of the atheists.
How so?
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Old 11-28-2012, 19:32   #374
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Originally Posted by Peace Warrior View Post
Do you know or understand ANYTHING about either the abilities and or limits of data, when it comes specifically from millimeter and or sub-millimeter continuum "viewing" instruments?

You invited me to point these things out to you,...


I agreed, and here we are.
I remember this sort of pompous self-aggrandizing attitude. Reached its zenith just before I told PW what "instrument backgrounds" were and that the tests he cited that supposedly indicate diamonds have carbon 14 weren't even measuring the diamonds. Funny how he can't seem to find that article now. Thought he'd be eager to prove me wrong.

I eagerly await the next revelation about PWs total misunderstanding of the last batch of stuff cribbed from creationist websites without having a clue what he was actually talking about.

Randy.

Last edited by steveksux; 11-28-2012 at 19:53..
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Old 11-28-2012, 21:46   #375
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