Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-21-2012, 23:57   #141
nicovg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cape Town South Africa
Posts: 3
Hi guys, it is not about caliber. Of course the size of the hole matters. What matters more is the first rule in any gunfight: have a gun! I have a Ruger Super Redhawk in 44Mag. Will surely make a mess of any attacker, but it resides in my safe, it is too big to carry. My Glock 19 sits on the hip, sleeps under my pillow. Which means I have a gun!
I have experience of what a 9mm can do in the hands of a skilled person. Use what you are comfortable with, the rest is bull****.
Any gun, more than an armslength away when the sh... hits he fan, is of no use, no matter the size the of the bullet.
nicovg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 01:36   #142
Zombie Steve
Decap Pin Killa
 
Zombie Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Old Colorado City
Posts: 19,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishyOne View Post
Yes it is. If you're defending yourself against grizzly bears it would be a great choice.

For anti-personnel use? I'll take a .45acp.

I ain't LE or military, but I have drawn a gun with the expectation of shooting someone in self defense. Believe me, when you're there, you always wish you had more gun. I almost exclusively carry .45 auto, by the way...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicovg View Post
Hi guys, it is not about caliber. Of course the size of the hole matters. What matters more is the first rule in any gunfight: have a gun! I have a Ruger Super Redhawk in 44Mag. Will surely make a mess of any attacker, but it resides in my safe, it is too big to carry. My Glock 19 sits on the hip, sleeps under my pillow. Which means I have a gun!
I have experience of what a 9mm can do in the hands of a skilled person. Use what you are comfortable with, the rest is bull****.
Any gun, more than an armslength away when the sh... hits he fan, is of no use, no matter the size the of the bullet.
Well, if it's under the pillow when you're sleeping, you ain't exactly carrying it, are you? I understand the Redhawk won't be as comfortable to rest your head on, but you might consider putting in on the night stand.
Zombie Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 08:38   #143
Andy W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by RYT 2BER View Post
Oooooooooh. So it's not a stupid caliber.. You're just not much of a shot.

Might I suggest that you buy a .22. They're vastly easier to shoot lots of rounds quickly.
There's no need to be insulting people now.
Andy W is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 09:30   #144
clarkz71
Senior Member
 
clarkz71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
There's no need to be insulting people now.
You should read the whole thread, Woods started it.
Here's what he said to me after I questioned him on
calling the .40 S&W a "stupid caliber"


Quote:
Originally Posted by AWoods View Post
Eh, some people do fine with that stupid caliber. Most of the ones at the range I go to suck with it. Most of the guys in the steel matches do good with it.

I don't know if you're an idiot or not, you're some guy on the internet.
__________________
Quote:
Real Men of Genius....Here's to you, Mister self proclaimed-genius-surrounded by idiots!
.
G23 gen3 .40/.357 Sig
Florida Glocker #1923
clarkz71 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 12:15   #145
Andy W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
You should read the whole thread, Woods started it.
Here's what he said to me after I questioned him on
calling the .40 S&W a "stupid caliber"
Yeah. It's amazing how hostile people get when talking about their preferred caliber. Me, I use 9mm now but I have no problem with .45. I don't like the .40 round but it'll do the job. 10mm is a cool round but its probably too much recoil for me to shoot comfortably + it's expensive and not commonly available.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
Andy W is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 12:33   #146
clarkz71
Senior Member
 
clarkz71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,608
Oh well, me I'm a gun nut, I like shooting anything that goes bang.

I just happen to like the .40 for carry. But anything from
.380 on up is better then having nothing on you.
__________________
Quote:
Real Men of Genius....Here's to you, Mister self proclaimed-genius-surrounded by idiots!
.
G23 gen3 .40/.357 Sig
Florida Glocker #1923
clarkz71 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 12:45   #147
denn1911
Senior Member
 
denn1911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 1,666
On my day job, I issued a .40 caliber pistol for 12 years. We now carry a .45 acp, which I am a huge fan of. Although I would carry my duty pistol off-duty occasionally, my off-duty pistols were either .45 acp or 9mm. I don't put people down for their caliber choice. As long as it fits their needs, and they can shoot it well, that's fine with me. I'd rather have someone put accurate rounds on a threat than shooting a caliber that they can't control. Not everyone will put in the time to train and become proficient with their chosen firearm, defensive ammo and gear.
denn1911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 23:00   #148
HKLovingIT
Resident Evil
 
HKLovingIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Out On The Tiles
Posts: 4,372
I own .38 Special, 9mm, .40s, .45 ACP and .357 SIG.

I carry 9mm almost exclusively in an urban environment. Here is why it makes sense for me in that situation:

1. I'm carrying Speer factory 124 gr Gold Dot +p which has a proven street and lab record. There is nothing boutique about it and if it is ever a legal question I can point to several major metropolitan departments with thousands of officers that carry the same load.

2. The wolves travel in ever larger packs these days. For a given size firearm I want the most on tap within that platform that I can have, before a reload is required.

3. Given the above point and that I tend to carry smaller pistols because of my personal logistics, the 9mm meets that requirement better for me. Yeah, I know it's usually only a round or two difference in most cases but I'll take it. Shot placement is king but in a dynamic situation with less than ideal shot placement I'll take the cumulative effect of two less than ideal hits with a 9mm over one less than ideal hit with a larger caliber. (Except 10mm which is known to lift the assailant clean off their feet with even a thumb hit, but it violates the Geneva conventions )

4. I'm a civilian and I don't work in and around vehicles all day so the heavier caliber's auto glass performance is not a factor for me.

5. I can shoot 9mm fast and accurate. In a me vs me comparison I will always outperform myself using 9mm versus another service caliber. Now I might shoot .40 or .45 faster and more accurate than another guy shoots 9mm but I can always out shoot me vs me using 9mm. I could shoot all year with a G27 and be damned good but at the end of that year I would still shoot a G26 that much better.

6. The firearms that I carry most often were all originally designed around the 9mm. I have a gut feel belief that carrying a firearm in the caliber it was originally designed for gives the best reliability and lessens the chance of a freak parts breakage at a bad time.

Do I think the .40 and .45 ACP are more effective by a degree or two? Yup. But given my above perceived personal requirements and situations I think the 9mm is my best choice for most of my carry situations. I think .357 SIG smokes them all in the common service calibers and if I was going to ditch the 9mm for everyday use (I'm not) I would go that route because it somewhat duplicates the famed 125gr .357 Magnum but in a platform that would work for me from a practical carry perspective.

I do carry other calibers in more rural settings but then I usually do have a shotgun or rifle right there so it's moot.

Good discussion.
__________________
Jesus didn't have a stunt double, and neither do you...

кто пукнул здесь?
Nescio, sed foetet.

Last edited by HKLovingIT; 11-22-2012 at 23:30..
HKLovingIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 23:26   #149
Mr.Reignman
Senior Member
 
Mr.Reignman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrrfect 10 View Post
If the 9mm is all you can handle I can see why you would think it is the best. DON"T discredit others for shooting much more superior rounds. That said there is no better pistol the a Glock 20 10mm if you can handle it? if not stick to what you can, hell ya might want to try a 22 if the 9 is a little snappy for ya. I say it is what you are comfortable with. 9 mm is like shooting a bb gun to me never would want one see no need for one for me it is a useless round
FOR ME doesn't get any better
Lawl.......
__________________
Like knives? Like being able to carry them? Like my companies Facebook!!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Mr.Reignman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 23:27   #150
GlocknamStyle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 8
SHOT PLACEMENT. I've read from one of the articles written by an experienced law enforcer (just forgot his name) that regardless of the caliber, shot placement determines whether a guy shot gets killed (or goes down) immediately or continues moving but drops after some time..If you hit him in the head between the eyes or directly in the heart, regardless of whether you used a .22 cal. or .45 caliber, the person would surely go down and cease to live immediately after..
GlocknamStyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 23:39   #151
Andy W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlocknamStyle View Post
SHOT PLACEMENT. I've read from one of the articles written by an experienced law enforcer (just forgot his name) that regardless of the caliber, shot placement determines whether a guy shot gets killed (or goes down) immediately or continues moving but drops after some time..If you hit him in the head between the eyes or directly in the heart, regardless of whether you used a .22 cal. or .45 caliber, the person would surely go down and cease to live immediately after..
If a person gets a bullet through the heart they will bleed out and go down but it may not be instant. I believe it is like 10 to 15 seconds (don't quote me on the numbers) that you can continue to function if your heart is completely destroyed. So a person shot through the heart will go down pretty fast but they could continue to fight for several seconds before blood loss and lack of oxygen to the brain makes them go down.

Last edited by Andy W; 11-23-2012 at 00:28..
Andy W is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 00:16   #152
Warp
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
Warp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 30,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
If a person gets a bullet through the heart they will bleed out and go down but it may not be instant.
Correct.
__________________
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I HIGHLY recommend Google Chrome and Adblock to all world wide web users. (I would have left GT a long time ago without these extensions!)
Warp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 02:36   #153
Southswede
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 926
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKLovingIT View Post
I own .38 Special, 9mm, .40s, .45 ACP and .357 SIG.

I carry 9mm almost exclusively in an urban environment. Here is why it makes sense for me in that situation:

1. I'm carrying Speer factory 124 gr Gold Dot +p which has a proven street and lab record. There is nothing boutique about it and if it is ever a legal question I can point to several major metropolitan departments with thousands of officers that carry the same load.

2. The wolves travel in ever larger packs these days. For a given size firearm I want the most on tap within that platform that I can have, before a reload is required.

3. Given the above point and that I tend to carry smaller pistols because of my personal logistics, the 9mm meets that requirement better for me. Yeah, I know it's usually only a round or two difference in most cases but I'll take it. Shot placement is king but in a dynamic situation with less than ideal shot placement I'll take the cumulative effect of two less than ideal hits with a 9mm over one less than ideal hit with a larger caliber. (Except 10mm which is known to lift the assailant clean off their feet with even a thumb hit, but it violates the Geneva conventions )

4. I'm a civilian and I don't work in and around vehicles all day so the heavier caliber's auto glass performance is not a factor for me.

5. I can shoot 9mm fast and accurate. In a me vs me comparison I will always outperform myself using 9mm versus another service caliber. Now I might shoot .40 or .45 faster and more accurate than another guy shoots 9mm but I can always out shoot me vs me using 9mm. I could shoot all year with a G27 and be damned good but at the end of that year I would still shoot a G26 that much better.

6. The firearms that I carry most often were all originally designed around the 9mm. I have a gut feel belief that carrying a firearm in the caliber it was originally designed for gives the best reliability and lessens the chance of a freak parts breakage at a bad time.

Do I think the .40 and .45 ACP are more effective by a degree or two? Yup. But given my above perceived personal requirements and situations I think the 9mm is my best choice for most of my carry situations. I think .357 SIG smokes them all in the common service calibers and if I was going to ditch the 9mm for everyday use (I'm not) I would go that route because it somewhat duplicates the famed 125gr .357 Magnum but in a platform that would work for me from a practical carry perspective.

I do carry other calibers in more rural settings but then I usually do have a shotgun or rifle right there so it's moot.

Good discussion.
Stop making sense!! There is no room for logic in a topic filled with internet hyperbole.
Southswede is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 19:31   #154
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
If a person gets a bullet through the heart they will bleed out and go down but it may not be instant. I believe it is like 10 to 15 seconds (don't quote me on the numbers) that you can continue to function if your heart is completely destroyed. So a person shot through the heart will go down pretty fast but they could continue to fight for several seconds before blood loss and lack of oxygen to the brain makes them go down.
This is a very thoughtful description. A violent, murderous felon can do a lot of damage with those 10-15 seconds. That is why I practice for head shots with my G17.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 22:47   #155
Andy W
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
This is a very thoughtful description. A violent, murderous felon can do a lot of damage with those 10-15 seconds. That is why I practice for head shots with my G17.
Good idea. It's actually quite possible the '86 FBI shootout in Miami would most likely have ended quite differently had the agents 1) been using heavier bullets in their 9mms as .38s and 2.) practiced head shots. Platt, who inflicted most of the FBI casualties during the fight, was actually mortally wounded fairly early on but was able to continue fighting for several minutes. I believe he actually inflicted most of these casualties after being fatally wounded. He took a 115 grain 9mm JHP through the arm, which continued on into his side, collapsing a lung and stopping less than 2" from his heart. Had the agents been using heavier 124-125 grain + bullets, he would have gone down a lot sooner and wouldn't have been able to kill the two agents or wound as many of the others. Maybe he would have fired a few more shots but it wouldn't have been as bad. In fact, I bet a nice 147 grain Hornady XTP would have done quite well with identical shot placement; probably taking out his heart as well as collapsing both lungs


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Last edited by Andy W; 11-25-2012 at 23:51..
Andy W is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 22:54   #156
PBR Sailor
Senior Member
 
PBR Sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: CONUS
Posts: 725
If you do your job, the 9MM will do it's job.
__________________
Guerre 'A Mort
PBR Sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 00:22   #157
JimFS
JimFS
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Illinios
Posts: 32
OK. All good discussions. But in the heat of battle what are the odds that you can make a head shoot? And is he standing still waiting for the shoot? And what about a miss? Where does it go? Remember the last NY shooting. 9 bystanders shot by LE taking down the bad guy. So, if in that situation (with my 9) certainly would not shoot once and wait 15 seconds, but enough to stop the threat. How many times? From reports I have read. (no I am not LE) Depending on size, (9 through 45), and bullet type, 2.1 to 2.4 rounds to stop a threat. Yes 9 was the highest (but many researched were FMJ). However the conclusions were that shot placement is #1, so carry what you can shoot well, not the biggest you have in the closet.
JimFS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 00:45   #158
Warp
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
Warp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 30,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimFS View Post
OK. All good discussions. But in the heat of battle what are the odds that you can make a head shoot? And is he standing still waiting for the shoot? And what about a miss? Where does it go? Remember the last NY shooting. 9 bystanders shot by LE taking down the bad guy. So, if in that situation (with my 9) certainly would not shoot once and wait 15 seconds, but enough to stop the threat. How many times? From reports I have read. (no I am not LE) Depending on size, (9 through 45), and bullet type, 2.1 to 2.4 rounds to stop a threat. Yes 9 was the highest (but many researched were FMJ). However the conclusions were that shot placement is #1, so carry what you can shoot well, not the biggest you have in the closet.
Stating it like that does not accurately represent what actually happened.
__________________
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

I HIGHLY recommend Google Chrome and Adblock to all world wide web users. (I would have left GT a long time ago without these extensions!)

Last edited by Warp; 11-26-2012 at 00:45..
Warp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 11:58   #159
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimFS View Post
OK. All good discussions. But in the heat of battle what are the odds that you can make a head shoot? And is he standing still waiting for the shoot? And what about a miss? Where does it go? Remember the last NY shooting. 9 bystanders shot by LE taking down the bad guy. So, if in that situation (with my 9) certainly would not shoot once and wait 15 seconds, but enough to stop the threat. How many times? From reports I have read. (no I am not LE) Depending on size, (9 through 45), and bullet type, 2.1 to 2.4 rounds to stop a threat. Yes 9 was the highest (but many researched were FMJ). However the conclusions were that shot placement is #1, so carry what you can shoot well, not the biggest you have in the closet.
The NYC shooting goes to show you what one gets with poor shooting skills, NYC should enact a whole new, comprehensive training program.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 19:28   #160
bdcremer
The No SpinZone
 
bdcremer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Outside the Fruit Loop, GA
Posts: 533
When SHTF there are many things we say we will do however, these things are tremendously more difficult when the lead starts flinging. The FBI has done a lot of bullet testing and they still chose to stick with the .40 S&W.
__________________
Gunner's Mate 2nd Class
Glock Certified Armorer

If you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
bdcremer is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:57.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,164
356 Members
808 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31