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Old 11-18-2012, 19:38   #121
clarkz71
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Originally Posted by AWoods View Post

I can make 4-5 good hits with 9mm in the time it takes to make 2 good hits with 40. I can make 3 good hits with 45. According to my understanding, that's a lot more damage on the target in the same amount of time.
.
Now that sounds a lot better the calling the .40 stupid.

Everybody has a certain platform & caliber their better with.

Training with them is the important thing. Some people
run 50 rounds through a new gun & think their set.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:39   #122
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You're not teacup'in that grip are you?
Damn, now that's funny.
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Old 11-18-2012, 21:14   #123
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Would you rather be shot in the pinkie toe by 40, or through the heart by a 9mm? I guarantee you that 9mm is going to be a lot easier to place a bunch of bullets through someone's vitals than 40. Heck even 45 is easier to shoot than 40.

With 9mm, I can pretty much mag dump and get all my shots in the vitals at 21ft. With 45 it's a lot more deliberate. With 40 I just think what a stupid caliber it is.
The FIRST shot in a string inherits its placement ONLY from shooter control; you are as likely to place your first .40 shot in center of mass as you are your first 9mm shot.

If your first .40 shot goes in the toe instead of COM, then you are psyched by the caliber. LATER shots may be affected by heavier recoil, but not the FIRST.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:20   #124
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Originally Posted by FishyOne View Post
It's hard to beat a .45 +P loaded with 230gr HP pill at 950fps.
How about a .45 win mag?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Winchester_Magnum

230gr at 1400 fps
300gr at 1150 fps
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Old 11-19-2012, 13:48   #125
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You're not teacup'in that grip are you?
That is a very good question.
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Old 11-19-2012, 13:50   #126
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How about a .45 win mag?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Winchester_Magnum

230gr at 1400 fps
300gr at 1150 fps
The .45 Winchester Magnum is a very powerful cartridge!!
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Old 11-19-2012, 16:23   #127
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The .45 Winchester Magnum is a very powerful cartridge!!
Yes it is. If you're defending yourself against grizzly bears it would be a great choice.

For anti-personnel use? I'll take a .45acp.
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Old 11-19-2012, 18:06   #128
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The .45 Winchester Magnum is a very powerful cartridge!!
Or the .460 Rowland...

Now, if you were to take a Para P14-45 and convert it to .460 Rowland, you would have a serious backup gun for hog hunting.
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Old 11-19-2012, 19:17   #129
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With 9mm, I can pretty much mag dump and get all my shots in the vitals at 21ft. With 45 it's a lot more deliberate. With 40 I just think what a stupid caliber it is.[/QUOTE]

If that is how you feel about 40, you must think the 10mm and magnum revolver guys are plum crazy.

Seriously it all depends on practice and pistol selection. With an M9 it is easy to pop off 9mm quickly with pretty good accuracy. A lot harder to do with a baby G26 in 9 or G36 in 45. Try 40 in a G20 - I have found you can run these off very quickly like a 9mm. Heavy slide damps recoil very nicely. That said, I don't choose them for SD loads.
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Old 11-21-2012, 14:13   #130
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Yes it is. If you're defending yourself against grizzly bears it would be a great choice.

For anti-personnel use? I'll take a .45acp.
The recoil would likely break my hand!
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Old 11-21-2012, 15:08   #131
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Yes it is. If you're defending yourself against grizzly bears it would be a great choice.

For anti-personnel use? I'll take a .45acp.
But the advantage of the .45 win mag (or the .460 Rowland for that matter) is that you can still supposedly shoot the .45ACP rounds in them.

Just like with the 10mm -- you don't have to shoot full power loads, you can shoot the 10mm-lite "FBI loads" that they created for their female agents (which eventually was made into the .40SW caliber).

Hell, I've got .357mag loads that I periodically shoot for pests (armadillos, 'possums, etc) that are 158 gr LRN at 400 fps max. Very quiet, doesn't wake the neighbors, no ear protection needed... Just because you have a magnum caliber (and I'm including the 10mm in this category), it doesn't mean that you *have* to shoot full power loads. Sometimes, the task at hand can be perfectly handled by a light load.
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Old 11-21-2012, 16:33   #132
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But the advantage of the .45 win mag (or the .460 Rowland for that matter) is that you can still supposedly shoot the .45ACP rounds in them.

Just like with the 10mm -- you don't have to shoot full power loads, you can shoot the 10mm-lite "FBI loads" that they created for their female agents (which eventually was made into the .40SW caliber).

Hell, I've got .357mag loads that I periodically shoot for pests (armadillos, 'possums, etc) that are 158 gr LRN at 400 fps max. Very quiet, doesn't wake the neighbors, no ear protection needed... Just because you have a magnum caliber (and I'm including the 10mm in this category), it doesn't mean that you *have* to shoot full power loads. Sometimes, the task at hand can be perfectly handled by a light load.
Imagine the velocity that the .45 WinMag would get with a 185gr JHP. 1500FPS? 1600?
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Old 11-21-2012, 17:51   #133
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With 9mm, I can pretty much mag dump and get all my shots in the vitals at 21ft. With 45 it's a lot more deliberate. With 40 I just think what a stupid caliber it is.
At 13 my kid could do that mag dump with 9mm.


40 just take more skill and it sounds like you need lots of practice.
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Old 11-21-2012, 17:55   #134
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Originally Posted by AWoods View Post
Well, this is regarding my ability, but here goes:

I can make 4-5 good hits with 9mm in the time it takes to make 2 good hits with 40. I can make 3 good hits with 45. According to my understanding, that's a lot more damage on the target in the same amount of time.

I also figure that if I ever have to do this in a gun fight, it's going to be a lot harder, to make a good hit, so being able to do it much easier counts for a lot.
Oooooooooh. So it's not a stupid caliber.. You're just not much of a shot.

Might I suggest that you buy a .22. They're vastly easier to shoot lots of rounds quickly.
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Old 11-21-2012, 19:04   #135
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I carry and own all three major service caliber, those being the 9mm the .40S&W and the .45acp. I like the 9mm as it's cheaper to shoot and easier to shoot and carries the most rounds in a given handgun. I know handguns are a compromise anyway, so I carry a 9mm most days because I can shoot it the best whether two handed, weak handed or one handed, it doesnt matter.

My buddies who served in Iraq both shot men with their M9 pistols with FMJ ammo. No HP ammo, just FMJ and both men went down and stopped what they were doing and never moved again. Shot placement is everything.
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Old 11-21-2012, 20:40   #136
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My buddies who served in Iraq both shot men with their M9 pistols with FMJ ammo. No HP ammo, just FMJ and both men went down and stopped what they were doing and never moved again. Shot placement is everything.
I have to suspect that a lot of the people who are so much of a zealot of one caliber over another have not actually been put in a situation where they had to defend themselves. I've been in that situation.

Many years ago, when I was *much* younger, I shot two guys with a Beretta .22LR who wanted to "share the (my) wealth" and they stopped what they were doing... Or at least it slowed them down enough that I could outrun them... I didn't bother wasting time looking behind me as I was running... I later found out that I had accomplished nothing more than flesh wounds, but apparently it was enough... On the other hand, I was once shot with a .38 and I didn't even notice it in the excitement of the moment...

It all boils down to shot placement and the determination of both parties... In the first incident, my shot placement was crap and their determination was low... In the second incident, his shot placement was crap and my determination (to not get shot) was rather high...

I wasn't any sort of badass, just someone who was minding my own business, but in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Last edited by WilliamDahl; 11-22-2012 at 15:45..
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Old 11-21-2012, 20:44   #137
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OK. One more opinion. If you hit the mark with good ammo, a 9, 40, or 45 will all do the job. (the statistics prove that) NATO uses 9s. Most agencies use 9s or 40s. My 9s are easy to shoot well, conceal, carry more rounds, cheaper ammo (so more practice), and ammo available everywhere. So ---- I am not discrediting the larger cals but just saying. This is why I run 9s. And the beat goes on........
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Old 11-21-2012, 20:58   #138
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considering winter is coming. .40 or .45 cal. in summer where everyone wears a t-shirt 9mm.
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Old 11-21-2012, 21:10   #139
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I've never heard of anyone thanking God they were only shot with a 9mm.........
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Old 11-21-2012, 22:36   #140
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I think this brings up a point rarely discussed. My buddies recently did some of their own ballistics testing.

Using gel may be good for penetration testing. But I think it's exceptionally poor at illustrating "damage".

After firing 9mm vs 10mm...penetration was one thing into gel, but shooting into pork "picnic" cuts and ribs showed no comparison. The 9mm made a nice hole....the 10mm absolutely disintegrated the meat ...total psychotic destruction. .... Penetration is one...ONE aspect of bullet performance....penetration... But after seeing what I saw I'm finding penetration in gel to be a fairly misleading.
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