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Old 11-18-2012, 07:33   #101
SCmasterblaster
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Originally Posted by mds1140 View Post
Shot Placement! I have see a BG shot with several 40's and 45's, ranger'T ammo. all hits were around COM and thighs. He stopped....but he is fine.

Another BG pulled an airsoft on an officer. Officer shot back with 45, Ranger-T, bg's puffy coat must have plugged up the hollow point, did minimal damage, passing through the torso. Survived.

Another BG shot in a car with 9mm RA9T. One hit. Good shot placement, this BG bled out quickly and did not survive.

Anther BG shot with 45 RangerT and 9mm Gold Dot 147. Again, low abdomen and leg shots. Although.....one leg shot was high inside thigh, I believe it hit an artery, bled badly. I had to hold direct pressure on that one.....The cool part...I didnt want to stare at his crotch the entire time, so I looked around and saw, the expanded 45 and partially expanded 9mm lying on the ground right under and around the BG! Not so cool part....he peed on my hand, fortunaltely i was wearing gloves, and it was cold outside, sooooooo.....

I like the 9mm, 40 and 45. It's all about shot placement. Sometimes the hollow points work, sometimes they dont. **** happens.

I have choice between calibers. In my research and testing and experience, I believe they all work about the same. In watching ammo reps shooting gel blocks...they all work about the same. There are so many good choices.

My choice? 9mm. I shoot it better than the others. I will not poo-poo another's choice, because I'm a gun nut and I still like them all. All good choices.
You sure do have a lot of wound data. Good for you.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:20   #102
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I did 2 LEO C Q C courses and they emphasize 2 to the pelvis.
Seems to drop the bad guy even if he wear body armor.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:31   #103
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I think we as firearms enthusiast focus way too much on scientific data only. Bullets and bullets hitting humans do unpredictable things. These things cannot always be quantified in a lab.

I have read a lot of differing opinions on pistol calibers and have come to some conclusions. 9mm parabellum fans like the recoil. .40 s&w fans like the size, relative similar capacity and better penetration. .45 acp fans are nostalgic and like an even bigger bullet than .40 s&w.

Yes these are informed generalizations but I read the same arguments over and over. I refer to a man like Col. Jeff Cooper instead of the interweb commandos.

I like and carry the .40 s&w.


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Old 11-18-2012, 10:42   #104
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I think this is my favorite non-political subject to debate.

I think the most important thing is whether you can consistenty hit what you are shooting at. If I can't hit the broad side of a barn with 17 rounds of 9mm, but I can get five hits out of a 10 rd magazine of 22lr I'm way better off with the 22. Likewise, a shooter who is good enough with his 1911 to get 3 or 4 shots into the chests of two attackers from one mag? He should definitely carry his .45.
This thread is a fun one. I'm not a "serious" gun guy, but respect them and have my CCW.
I can hit a barn with my S&W Airweight and the barn
doorknob with my G-19.

I hope I never have to draw on someone and practice mentally to avoid and practice physically (and mentally)
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:47   #105
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Over penetration won't get you killed, under penetration will.
How many of you actually think the BG will just stand there and let you shoot him 15 times.
With BG's and bears, you may only get one shot.
Make it count.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:52   #106
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Over penetration won't get you killed, under penetration will.
How many of you actually think the BG will just stand there and let you shoot him 15 times.
With BG's and bears, you may only get one shot.
Make it count.
None. The BGs are likely to run away from defensive gunfire.
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Old 11-18-2012, 13:04   #107
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I've only drawn one time over thirty years ago. The BG who was coming out of my own house with one of my own kitchen knives, had a sudden change of plans. Just the sight of the revolver stopped him.
On the other hand, this guy wasn't stopping for anything. Warning to the lilly livered. Very graphic.

http://catm.com/yabbfiles/Attachment...FBIAcademy.pdf

Somewhere in the middle, grumpy old man fired one shot into the heart of a hot headed young man not too long ago known as Mr. Dooley and Mr. James. Mr. Dooley's choice of SD handgun was a .32cal pistol. Mr. James rolled over, said call 911 and died within seconds. This according to the trial so far.

Those of you ladyboys too limp wrist to conceal and carry a 12g better make sure your aim is good. Or lucky.
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Old 11-18-2012, 14:41   #108
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So true - a very graphic link. From the xrays, it looks like he got shot in the foot real bad, a well as nearly everywhere else.
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:22   #109
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Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
The LE guys seem to like the .40

If the 9mm was just as good they all would
carry it and save on ammo.

FBI issues the G23

Secret service the 357 sig
Many agencies transitioned from the 9MM to the .40 S&W, because of it's effectiveness on auto glass.

If you are not shooting through an intermediate barrier like auto glass, the 9MM works just fine. It's more about shot placement than anything else.
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:25   #110
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Many agencies transitioned from the 9MM to the .40 S&W, because of it's effectiveness on auto glass.

If you are not shooting through an intermediate barrier like auto glass, the 9MM works just fine. It's more about shot placement than anything else.
Good quote by Yamamoto!
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Old 11-18-2012, 18:22   #111
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Would you rather be shot in the pinkie toe by 40, or through the heart by a 9mm? I guarantee you that 9mm is going to be a lot easier to place a bunch of bullets through someone's vitals than 40. Heck even 45 is easier to shoot than 40.

With 9mm, I can pretty much mag dump and get all my shots in the vitals at 21ft. With 45 it's a lot more deliberate. With 40 I just think what a stupid caliber it is.
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Old 11-18-2012, 18:47   #112
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This is the same old debate that pops up all too often. It's not the machinery in use; it's the operator at the switch.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:05   #113
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Originally Posted by AWoods View Post

With 9mm, I can pretty much mag dump and get all my shots in the vitals at 21ft. With 45 it's a lot more deliberate.
With 40 I just think what a stupid caliber it is.
Really, so I guess I, and anyone who uses a .40 Glock
are stupid? Must be for depending on a stupid caliber
to protect our lives.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:12   #114
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Really, so I guess I, and anyone who uses a .40 Glock
are stupid? Must be for depending on a stupid caliber
to protect our lives.
Eh, some people do fine with that stupid caliber. Most of the ones at the range I go to suck with it. Most of the guys in the steel matches do good with it.

I don't know if you're an idiot or not, you're some guy on the internet.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:16   #115
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I always wonder why people love the 9mm and the 45acp, but hate the 40. If you like the 9mm, why would you not like the 40, which is the ballistically superior round? It makes more sense to me to choose the 40 and the 45acp rather than the 9 and 45. I see it quite often though. I have heard people say the the 40 is a compromise round, but that depends how you look at it. You could say the same about the 45 and the 9. The nine is smaller, to get more rounds. The 45 is bigger, but you compromise capacity. It makes sense, like someone else said, that they are all marginally effective, but the 9mm is more ammo dependent than the others.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:19   #116
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Originally Posted by AWoods View Post
Eh, some people do fine with that stupid caliber. Most of the ones at the range I go to suck with it. Most of the guys in the steel matches do good with it.

I don't know if you're an idiot or not, you're some guy on the internet.
So you can't tell me why the .40 is stupid.

Come on, you can tell me.

Since you don't know if I'm an idiot or just some guy
on the net, give me the simple version.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:19   #117
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40 may be "ballistic-ally superior" by my results with it are ballistic-ally inferior.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:20   #118
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Originally Posted by Dogbite View Post
I always wonder why people love the 9mm and the 45acp, but hate the 40. If you like the 9mm, why would you not like the 40, which is the ballistically superior round? It makes more sense to me to choose the 40 and the 45acp rather than the 9 and 45. I see it quite often though. I have heard people say the the 40 is a compromise round, but that depends how you look at it. You could say the same about the 45 and the 9. The nine is smaller, to get more rounds. The 45 is bigger, but you compromise capacity. It makes sense, like someone else said, that they are all marginally effective, but the 9mm is more ammo dependent than the others.
Now there's a smart post.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:25   #119
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Originally Posted by clarkz71 View Post
So you can't tell me why the .40 is stupid.

Come on, you can tell me.

Since you don't know if I'm an idiot or just some guy
on the net, give me the simple version.
Well, this is regarding my ability, but here goes:

I can make 4-5 good hits with 9mm in the time it takes to make 2 good hits with 40. I can make 3 good hits with 45. According to my understanding, that's a lot more damage on the target in the same amount of time.

I also figure that if I ever have to do this in a gun fight, it's going to be a lot harder, to make a good hit, so being able to do it much easier counts for a lot.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:31   #120
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Originally Posted by AWoods View Post
Well, this is regarding my ability, but here goes:

I can make 4-5 good hits with 9mm in the time it takes to make 2 good hits with 40. I can make 3 good hits with 45. According to my understanding, that's a lot more damage on the target in the same amount of time.

I also figure that if I ever have to do this in a gun fight, it's going to be a lot harder, to make a good hit, so being able to do it much easier counts for a lot.
You're not teacup'in that grip are you?
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