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Old 11-16-2012, 12:17   #26
Matthew Courtney
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You had me going for the first two sentences, actually.

After that, it all came off the rails.
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Old 11-16-2012, 23:59   #27
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Dont tell the guys at m4carbine.net....
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:29   #28
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Oh my, this is interesting.....
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:20   #29
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Dont tell the guys at m4carbine.net....


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Oh my, this is interesting.....
It happens. Anyone can goof one up from time to time, but (so far) BCM is hitting all the high points on the way to making it right.

The complete BCG will be going out from the UPS store to Bravo later this afternoon. Given the holiday next week, I'm hoping to have it back around the 3rd, if the shipping times work out the way I think they will.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:12   #30
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It happens. Anyone can goof one up from time to time, but (so far) BCM is hitting all the high points on the way to making it right.
Oh I realize this AND I don't doubt they'll take care of you a bit.

If it would have been someone else, it would have been assumed as commonplace, that's all.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:16   #31
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Dont tell the guys at m4carbine.net....
It is immature and inaccurate comments like this that drives animosity between forums.
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Old 11-17-2012, 13:57   #32
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Oh I realize this AND I don't doubt they'll take care of you a bit.

If it would have been someone else, it would have been assumed as commonplace, that's all.
It's rare to find a company where it's not common. That's why certain companies have such a great following.

Just like anything, if mistakes happen over and over it gets old. Mistakes few and far between are usually easily dismissed.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:37   #33
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It's rare to find a company where it's not common. That's why certain companies have such a great following.
That's one opinion for sure, but the more and more one asks for statistical information to verify occurences either way, it's obvious that it's really just a matter of anecdotes. I've definitely seen the bias of some sites towards certain brands and I actually understand why, but again it seems errors by some brands seem to be put on a billboard, while others are extremely quiet.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:11   #34
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That's one opinion for sure, but the more and more one asks for statistical information to verify occurences either way, it's obvious that it's really just a matter of anecdotes. I've definitely seen the bias of some sites towards certain brands and I actually understand why, but again it seems errors by some brands seem to be put on a billboard, while others are extremely quiet.
Exactly. As I like to say, what statistical information is available, and what was the collection method?

For all we know, Taurus might make the most reliable 1911, and Rock River might be the most reliable AR

But I'll give BCM a good look when I buy a shorty.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:38   #35
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It would be interesting to know if the screw threads stripped or if the Bolt Carrier was not tapped properly. If the fasteners are not properly Heat Treated, they will be too soft and will fail. If the tooling on the Roll Thread Machine is close to the end of its serviceable life, that will create problems as well. I have seen this in QC testing many times.

I am pretty positive, no firearm manufacture ever makes their own screws. They would buy them from a distributor which would buy them from a Fastener business from one like, I work for.

Where I work, we mostly make automotive safety parts and fasteners for the auto industry. We also make some fasteners for H.D.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:08   #36
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It would be interesting to know if the screw threads stripped or if the Bolt Carrier was not tapped properly. If the fasteners are not properly Heat Treated, they will be too soft and will fail. If the tooling on the Roll Thread Machine is close to the end of its serviceable life, that will create problems as well. I have seen this in QC testing many times.

I am pretty positive, no firearm manufacture ever makes their own screws. They would buy them from a distributor which would buy them from a Fastener business from one like, I work for.

Where I work, we mostly make automotive safety parts and fasteners for the auto industry. We also make some fasteners for H.D.

The carrier was definitely threaded from the beginning, as the carrier ran fine for a few hundred rounds before suddenly (and mysteriously) failing. Ran fine one range trip to the last shot, and didn't run at all from the first shot of the following visit.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:47   #37
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I wasn't very impressed with BCM staking. Colt seems to do it well.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:01   #38
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I came across a Daniel Defense video where one of their higher up mentioned they make most if not all of their parts down to the fasteners. I'll have to find it.

md357, it's like the lazy guy at work that can't do anything correctly yet the boss won't fire him. The rest of the crew gangs up on him and shines a spotlight on every little thing he does wrong.

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Old 11-18-2012, 12:01   #39
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I wasn't very impressed with BCM staking. Colt seems to do it well.
While the rear bolt on my carrier seemed to be staked well enough, the front one just didn't quite get enough of the bolt to keep it secure. At this point, though, I can't be sure if that is due to a bad staking job, or a faulty screw vibrating to the point that the staking was undone - or a mix of both.
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:49   #40
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Everyone makes mistakes, at least BCM is taking care of you as a customer. I wonder if they can track who and when it was assembled for QC
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:53   #41
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Everyone makes mistakes, at least BCM is taking care of you as a customer. I wonder if they can track who and when it was assembled for QC
The BCG I got from them was serial numbered, so it wouldn't surprise me.

While I think it was an over-torquing issue, it's still possible that it was a bad screw, bad tap job on the carrier, bad batch of steel, or probably several other things I have not thought of.
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Old 11-18-2012, 16:56   #42
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Well they are really busy as u can never get them on the phone and listings of back ordered parts. Which isn't a bad thing but sometimes rushing to get things done can cause mistakes.
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Old 11-18-2012, 17:03   #43
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Well they are really busy as u can never get them on the phone and listings of back ordered parts. Which isn't a bad thing but sometimes rushing to get things done can cause mistakes.
They don't answer the phones at all, from my understanding. They are pretty speedy about answering emails, though.
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Old 11-18-2012, 17:16   #44
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Yes they are and great getting stuff out when you order. I wish they had blemished lowers in stock though.
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Old 11-18-2012, 17:23   #45
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Yes they are and great getting stuff out when you order. I wish they had blemished lowers in stock though.
PSA has had them in and out of stock (ie: Their brand lowers) the past few weeks. When I ordered one, I had it in a week or so with no hiccups. I'm up to almost 2 weeks waiting for them to build and ship my new upper. They said roughly 3 weeks from order to shipping.


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Old 11-18-2012, 17:54   #46
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Yes they are and great getting stuff out when you order. I wish they had blemished lowers in stock though.


I hope you realize, you want somebody to make a mistake so you can get what you want cheaper right.

I am sure, when they hire a new CNC operator, you’ll get your chance.
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Old 11-18-2012, 18:16   #47
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The carrier was definitely threaded from the beginning, as the carrier ran fine for a few hundred rounds before suddenly (and mysteriously) failing. Ran fine one range trip to the last shot, and didn't run at all from the first shot of the following visit.
Without a doubt I am sure the carrier was threaded. I just wouldn’t be sure of the condition of the tooling used on that job or the quality of the tools that were used to make the fastener.

All tooling has a life span. Like heading and rolling dies. The wire also plays a part. The wire is first heated to make it stretch before it is headed. Then it gets rolled. The rolling process also stretches the fastener and makes the threads to expand. The operator should have a set of prints to go by when checking their parts.

Where I work, some rolling dies only last for 20,000 parts while others are more. The material is also deciding factor in tool life. I anneal stainless fasteners every day before rolling to make them softer for die life.
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Old 11-18-2012, 19:33   #48
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PSA has had them in and out of stock (ie: Their brand lowers) the past few weeks. When I ordered one, I had it in a week or so with no hiccups. I'm up to almost 2 weeks waiting for them to build and ship my new upper. They said roughly 3 weeks from order to shipping.


I spoke with them on Wednesday about mine and they told me they are running about a week behind schedule on uppers, so most uppers are taking about 4 weeks to ship instead of 3. I ordered mine on Ocober 20th and it still hasnt shipped...
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:32   #49
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I hope you realize, you want somebody to make a mistake so you can get what you want cheaper right.

I am sure, when they hire a new CNC operator, you’ll get your chance.

Sometimes a blemished lower can happen from numerous other reasons besides machining, especially if it cosmetic.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:36   #50
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Sometimes a blemished lower can happen from numerous other reasons besides machining, especially if it cosmetic.
Like butter fingers dropping it?
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