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11-14-2012, 12:46
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#1
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They Just Work!
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Kentucky, USA
Posts: 549
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Do FMJHP's expand?
Just wondering if .223/5.56 full metal jacket hollow points in either 55 or 62 grain actually expand as, I imagine, a semi jacketed would?
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11-14-2012, 13:08
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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The .223 HPs
have a sizable cavity. And at the high speeds they operate, bullet expansion is very likely. 
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11-14-2012, 14:52
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
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Rifle JHPs don't expand like pistol rounds do, they fragment. All the hollow point does is (supposedly?) aid accuracy and tendency to yaw (which causes fragmentation).
Jacketed Soft Points (JSPs) expand though. I don't hear them referred to as "semi-jacketed" much.
Last edited by cowboy1964; 11-14-2012 at 15:47..
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11-14-2012, 17:40
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 19,677
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FMJHP is kind of an oximoron. The open tipped match type bullet can expand but can also pencil thru or fragment. Why they are not the best choice to hunt with in most calibers. A true JHP rifle bullet can certainly expand properly if designed to do so.
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11-14-2012, 18:55
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Well
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964
Rifle JHPs don't expand like pistol rounds do, they fragment. All the hollow point does is (supposedly?) aid accuracy and tendency to yaw (which causes fragmentation).
Jacketed Soft Points (JSPs) expand though. I don't hear them referred to as "semi-jacketed" much.
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how very interesting . . . . .
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11-14-2012, 21:33
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#6
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In The Saddle
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338
FMJHP is kind of an oximoron. The open tipped match type bullet can expand but can also pencil thru or fragment. Why they are not the best choice to hunt with in most calibers. A true JHP rifle bullet can certainly expand properly if designed to do so.
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Hey my friend ! Hope all is well !
Your post here ?...... 
Stat safe amigo !
CanyonMan
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11-15-2012, 15:11
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Question
Do ammo makers offer .308Win with hollow point bullets?
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11-15-2012, 21:53
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#8
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CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 24,779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster
Do ammo makers offer .308Win with hollow point bullets?
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Yes
Federal match ammo comes to mind.
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11-16-2012, 12:56
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue
Yes
Federal match ammo comes to mind.
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Thanx!
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11-16-2012, 16:27
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#10
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Cool Guy
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,579
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The .308 bullet (7.62x51) is one of the few calibers the military openly issued hollow points to.
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11-16-2012, 18:09
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#11
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Mmmm... Liver.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Old Colorado City
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The thin drawn jacket on most open tip match (hollow point bullets) lends itself to fragmentation. While I think they work better on soft targets than fmj, they are designed for flight and flight alone. They just have to punch a hole in paper or make steel ring. The hollow cavity in the tip is to move the center of gravity back on the bullet and help stabilization in flight. If you want expansion, get a hunting bullet. Soft point, partition / A-frame, or something bonded like the accubond or deep curl.
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11-16-2012, 18:35
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#12
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Cool Guy
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Steve
The thin drawn jacket on most open tip match (hollow point bullets) lends itself to fragmentation. While I think they work better on soft targets than fmj, they are designed for flight and flight alone. They just have to punch a hole in paper or make steel ring. The hollow cavity in the tip is to move the center of gravity back on the bullet and help stabilization in flight. If you want expansion, get a hunting bullet. Soft point, partition / A-frame, or something bonded like the accubond or deep curl.
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This is true. The bullet yaws and fragments much like the M193 style bullets of the 5.56mm (which is actually true for any pointed bullet with somewhat fragile construction).
They are much more effective than FMJ bullets against unarmored targets.
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11-16-2012, 19:42
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock19Fan
This is true. The bullet yaws and fragments much like the M193 style bullets of the 5.56mm (which is actually true for any pointed bullet with somewhat fragile construction).
They are much more effective than FMJ bullets against unarmored targets.
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I agree, brother! Good description.
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11-17-2012, 17:50
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#14
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Malcontent
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 10,969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Steve
The thin drawn jacket on most open tip match (hollow point bullets) lends itself to fragmentation. While I think they work better on soft targets than fmj, they are designed for flight and flight alone. They just have to punch a hole in paper or make steel ring. The hollow cavity in the tip is to move the center of gravity back on the bullet and help stabilization in flight. If you want expansion, get a hunting bullet. Soft point, partition / A-frame, or something bonded like the accubond or deep curl.
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According to my old Hornady manual, the BTHP match bullets, Hornady's anyway. are made that way for two reasons. The HP makes the bullet longer for a given weight which increases the bearing surface. Also, the HP allows the base to be closed which means it's more uniform. A uniform base is critical to accuracy.
As for expansion, the match type bullets, according to Hornady, are not to be used for game as there performance can't be predicted. The Sierra BTHP match bullets apparently are destructive and are used by the military for this purpose with a nod and a wink in addition to their accuracy.
There are HP varmint bullets. They are designed to basically disintegrate on impact to minimize downrange hazards. Some of them are so fragile that they will fly apart in flight if they are shot too fast through a too high rate of twist barrel.
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11-17-2012, 17:53
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#15
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Malcontent
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 10,969
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Also, there are/were some combloc steel jacketed HP rounds sold cheap at one time. They looked like they would be good expanders, but apparently some of them acted just like ball ammo.
Overall, you need to see what a specific bullet was designed for. The bullet/ammo companies make the bullets/ammo for specific purposes.
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11-18-2012, 06:26
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT
According to my old Hornady manual, the BTHP match bullets, Hornady's anyway. are made that way for two reasons. The HP makes the bullet longer for a given weight which increases the bearing surface. Also, the HP allows the base to be closed which means it's more uniform. A uniform base is critical to accuracy.
As for expansion, the match type bullets, according to Hornady, are not to be used for game as there performance can't be predicted. The Sierra BTHP match bullets apparently are destructive and are used by the military for this purpose with a nod and a wink in addition to their accuracy.
There are HP varmint bullets. They are designed to basically disintegrate on impact to minimize downrange hazards. Some of them are so fragile that they will fly apart in flight if they are shot too fast through a too high rate of twist barrel.
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I had forgotten all about that - the fact that HP or SP bullet have enclosed bases.
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